The Danica vs Ashley comparison isn't.... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Toejam
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Ashley has no pressure on her (to find sponsors) what's so ever.
At no point did I say Ashley was not very marketable or not well spoken..... tell me when I said that.
This whole topic was blasting Danica for the way she competes, acts and markets herself.
If I had to pick one of the two ladies who I would like to have on my team I would pick Ashley, she is well spoken, humble, yet driven (and did I say very pretty).
Danica has to market herself every time she goes out.
Every sponsor on her ride(s) she has earned on her own merits, that is really my point in all this. If the sponsors did not like the way she acts or presents herself or the way she drives a race car she would not keep them.
It does not matter how Ashley does performs, the only pressure on her is the pressure she puts on herself (and that is likely lots because she is competitive, it is her nature, it is in her jeans (ya I know the wrong spelling, but man she looks good in them)
Ashley has not had to to out and find sponsors, they were already there.
The bonus for Ashley happens to be that she can drive a car on the 1/4 mile
Again its in her genes.
Because of who she is, she was in the perfect situation for someone wanting to be a race car driver.
And she happens to be extremely good looking, win win!
None on my posts on this thread were written to say I though Danica was better than Ashley, I did not try and portray that.
But Danica has a much tougher job in motorsports than what Ashley does.
Every faucet of her success is based on her ability to market herself and then perform to satisfaction on the track.
Ashley really just has to drive.
The sponsors will be there as long as team Force is in existence.
Hope your comment on liking the calendar was not tongue in cheek Timah
If you did like it, PM or email me your address and I will send you all five different ones
Dean
[email protected]
At no point did I say Ashley was not very marketable or not well spoken..... tell me when I said that.
This whole topic was blasting Danica for the way she competes, acts and markets herself.
If I had to pick one of the two ladies who I would like to have on my team I would pick Ashley, she is well spoken, humble, yet driven (and did I say very pretty).
Danica has to market herself every time she goes out.
Every sponsor on her ride(s) she has earned on her own merits, that is really my point in all this. If the sponsors did not like the way she acts or presents herself or the way she drives a race car she would not keep them.
It does not matter how Ashley does performs, the only pressure on her is the pressure she puts on herself (and that is likely lots because she is competitive, it is her nature, it is in her jeans (ya I know the wrong spelling, but man she looks good in them)
Ashley has not had to to out and find sponsors, they were already there.
The bonus for Ashley happens to be that she can drive a car on the 1/4 mile
Again its in her genes.
Because of who she is, she was in the perfect situation for someone wanting to be a race car driver.
And she happens to be extremely good looking, win win!
None on my posts on this thread were written to say I though Danica was better than Ashley, I did not try and portray that.
But Danica has a much tougher job in motorsports than what Ashley does.
Every faucet of her success is based on her ability to market herself and then perform to satisfaction on the track.
Ashley really just has to drive.
The sponsors will be there as long as team Force is in existence.
Hope your comment on liking the calendar was not tongue in cheek Timah
If you did like it, PM or email me your address and I will send you all five different ones
Dean
[email protected]
Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
Ashley has no pressure on her (to find sponsors) what's so ever.
At no point did I say Ashley was not very marketable or not well spoken..... tell me when I said that.
This whole topic was blasting Danica for the way she competes, acts and markets herself.
If I had to pick one of the two ladies who I would like to have on my team I would pick Ashley, she is well spoken, humble, yet driven (and did I say very pretty).
Danica has to market herself every time she goes out.
Every sponsor on her ride(s) she has earned on her own merits, that is really my point in all this. If the sponsors did not like the way she acts or presents herself or the way she drives a race car she would not keep them.
It does not matter how Ashley does performs, the only pressure on her is the pressure she puts on herself (and that is likely lots because she is competitive, it is her nature, it is in her jeans (ya I know the wrong spelling, but man she looks good in them)
Ashley has not had to to out and find sponsors, they were already there.
The bonus for Ashley happens to be that she can drive a car on the 1/4 mile
Again its in her genes.
Because of who she is, she was in the perfect situation for someone wanting to be a race car driver.
And she happens to be extremely good looking, win win!
None on my posts on this thread were written to say I though Danica was better than Ashley, I did not try and portray that.
But Danica has a much tougher job in motorsports than what Ashley does.
Every faucet of her success is based on her ability to market herself and then perform to satisfaction on the track.
Ashley really just has to drive.
The sponsors will be there as long as team Force is in existence.
Hope your comment on liking the calendar was not tongue in cheek Timah
If you did like it, PM or email me your address and I will send you all five different ones
Dean
[email protected]
Woooo... easy there killer. I just asked you a simple question.
What is your definition of "Marketable?"
I'd really like to see how you believe Danica Patrick is a 'marketable' persona. I'm not saying either one is better, I'd just like you to show me and everybody else in this DRAG RACING MESSAGE BOARD, what makes Danica marketable and attractive to a marketing partner?
For example, let's say I'm John Q. Board Member and you are trying to sell me on sponsoring Danica Patrick Vs. Ashley Force. Convince me of who is the more 'marketable' persona. And for the sake of argument, let's assume my product is 'widgets'....not gender or target specific.
And yes, I liked your calenders. If I didn't like them, I wouldn't have said it.
In today's world I would pick Danica any day over Ashley as a more marketable individual to sell any product. Danica has built a worldwide reputation as a female race car driver and everywhere she goes media follows her by the hundreds. Sorry, if you ask 100 random people on the street if they knew who Danica or Ashley were, the overwhelming majority would say Danica. Danica's reputation alone makes her much more marketable to company compared to Ashely. After looking at the response to Danica at Daytona I am thinking Go Daddy is really happy with their investment. I have to ask, what new major sponsorship has Ashley brought to the table? Castrol shifted their funding from Medlin's car to Ashely's car. Company's have built advertising campaigns behind Danica, the same can't be said about Ashley. Until that changes, the question between who is more marketable will always have an answer of Danica.
Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
"DANICA'S REPUTATION ALONE MAKES HER MUCH MORE MARKETABLE?"
What reputation is that Paul? And how does it equate to her selling my widgets in my make believe company? Is name recognition as big of a deal any longer? Look at how many companies are dumping Tiger because of the 'negative' stereo-type he has created because he has a 'SEX ADDICTION'...... So, how is DANICA'S REPUTATION "Marketable"?
Once again guys, I'm not saying Danica is not marketable. But if I were investing 3 million dollars into a "BRAND", DANICA or ASHLEY... convince me HOW Danica is more marketable. Saying because more average joe's on the street know her does not convince me.
Thanks for answering my question....
Tim, if she wasn't marketable do you think she would have the rides she has. Why has she gotten those rides, because companies believe in her and what she can do for their companies? She can drive (a lot more than adequately I must say) she is attractive, she is not afraid of speaking her mind; she fits the mold for many upscale in your face modern companies.
Never did say she was more marketable than Ashley. (But companies who were interested in marketing a female or driver for that matter any driver in motorpsorts would pick Danica over Ashley for one main reason.
The exposure they get from her. She is on National TV on network television. Ashley is on cable TV in front of maybe 800,000 people on a race weekend (that is likely a high number). And she is in a much more main stream racing series.
Hope that answers your question Tim
I said Ashley does not have to market herself the Sponsors for the most part were already there.
If you detractors of Danica don't think she has a hard job in motorsports than Ashley you are nuts.
The two platforms for marketability are quite different. One is in front of the cameras on network and cable TV for three hours at a time almost every weekend close to 40 (in three different race cars).
The other is in front of the cameras on cable TV for a few seconds at a time, for 24 weeks of the year. Now I realize the Force team has probably 30-50% of the telecast in their back pocket and that team owes the ESPN network and the NHRA for that. They are the smartest team in Drag Racing. And if Ashley was not the poster child for drag racing right now that team would not get that amount of coverage they get.
The NHRA has the best of all worlds when it comes to Ashley, because of who she is : 1. Attractive. 2. John Forces Daughter. 3. Quite a bit different than John (which builds the mystic about her). 4. She is humble and gracious and focused. The whole package. She makes it easier for the force haters to actually like her despite her father (whom I think is the best thing that ever happened to drag racing)
But if she was moody, outspoken and controversial she would still be very successful in this sport and it would not affect the sponsors that team force has.
Eric was colorful, Robert is quiet, but neither of them was require to bring sponsors to the table.
Timmah, who do you think has had a tougher job in motorsports to get where they are.
Tim, you are marketing a company looking to ell widgets but you are not doing the best for your company because you are not putting her in front of the most people.
You have drag racing tunnel vision, (thinking more with your heart or little Willy)
I guess I am saying she is more marketable because she is in front of more people.
Also you have to remember the people that not like Danica are likely fans of other motorsports or red necks that don't get the marketing aspect of why she is infront of the cameras
Dean
Never did say she was more marketable than Ashley. (But companies who were interested in marketing a female or driver for that matter any driver in motorpsorts would pick Danica over Ashley for one main reason.
The exposure they get from her. She is on National TV on network television. Ashley is on cable TV in front of maybe 800,000 people on a race weekend (that is likely a high number). And she is in a much more main stream racing series.
Hope that answers your question Tim
I said Ashley does not have to market herself the Sponsors for the most part were already there.
If you detractors of Danica don't think she has a hard job in motorsports than Ashley you are nuts.
The two platforms for marketability are quite different. One is in front of the cameras on network and cable TV for three hours at a time almost every weekend close to 40 (in three different race cars).
The other is in front of the cameras on cable TV for a few seconds at a time, for 24 weeks of the year. Now I realize the Force team has probably 30-50% of the telecast in their back pocket and that team owes the ESPN network and the NHRA for that. They are the smartest team in Drag Racing. And if Ashley was not the poster child for drag racing right now that team would not get that amount of coverage they get.
The NHRA has the best of all worlds when it comes to Ashley, because of who she is : 1. Attractive. 2. John Forces Daughter. 3. Quite a bit different than John (which builds the mystic about her). 4. She is humble and gracious and focused. The whole package. She makes it easier for the force haters to actually like her despite her father (whom I think is the best thing that ever happened to drag racing)
But if she was moody, outspoken and controversial she would still be very successful in this sport and it would not affect the sponsors that team force has.
Eric was colorful, Robert is quiet, but neither of them was require to bring sponsors to the table.
Timmah, who do you think has had a tougher job in motorsports to get where they are.
Tim, you are marketing a company looking to ell widgets but you are not doing the best for your company because you are not putting her in front of the most people.
You have drag racing tunnel vision, (thinking more with your heart or little Willy)
I guess I am saying she is more marketable because she is in front of more people.
Also you have to remember the people that not like Danica are likely fans of other motorsports or red necks that don't get the marketing aspect of why she is infront of the cameras
Dean
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There is no real scandels with Danica other than she fiery attitude.
To compare her with Tiger is ludicrous
And that being said, when Tiger comes back and dominates again, do you really think that companies will not jump back on the band wagon? They will be lining up.
Then you don't really know what it takes to market a name or a product Tim, sorry but that is reality.
Also say for example that they both are marketing pop
One for Coke and one for Pepsi
The budget for advertising is the same They both do a commercial for their product and they both have their sponsors name all over their race cars their rigs so on and so on
Which spokesperson is going to give their sponsor more tv time.
Both have their 30 second spot run at the same time during peak hours. Most will look at the two and reckonize Danica first, she races nascar and indy car afterall. Ashley may look nicer and more polite so on, but they find out she is a drag racer and they have to go to cable in a time delay and maybe see her for a very short time on said cable network if it has not been pre-empted for bi sexual cheerleading or something of that nature.
Dean
Just being a bit more of a realist.
To compare her with Tiger is ludicrous
And that being said, when Tiger comes back and dominates again, do you really think that companies will not jump back on the band wagon? They will be lining up.
Then you don't really know what it takes to market a name or a product Tim, sorry but that is reality.
Also say for example that they both are marketing pop
One for Coke and one for Pepsi
The budget for advertising is the same They both do a commercial for their product and they both have their sponsors name all over their race cars their rigs so on and so on
Which spokesperson is going to give their sponsor more tv time.
Both have their 30 second spot run at the same time during peak hours. Most will look at the two and reckonize Danica first, she races nascar and indy car afterall. Ashley may look nicer and more polite so on, but they find out she is a drag racer and they have to go to cable in a time delay and maybe see her for a very short time on said cable network if it has not been pre-empted for bi sexual cheerleading or something of that nature.
Dean
Just being a bit more of a realist.
Timmah, if you were investing $3m in an advertising campaign to move your product you would pick Ashley who the majority of the people in this country has no idea about or Danica who the majority of the people know who she is? That would seem like a foolish way to spend your money considering consumer purchasing habits are usually tagged to name recognition. In any business it is all about return on your investment and if you had to pick between Ashley or Danica, Danica would yield a much higher return. This is why, when you sponsor Danica in her current persona, you get constant coverage in every major media online, TV, and print because people are curious about what she does because of the racing series she participates in and the lack of competitive diversity they have. Having this many people reading or hearing about her and seeing your company's product on her firesuit/car these people are likely to explore purchasing your product. If you want hard numbers to back this up, look at the viewer increase of the ARCA event in Daytona last week. Danica's reputation I am speaking about is her recognition in mainstream media. Speaking with my business hat on, I can't see why this isn't clear because the places where Danica races provides a much higher exposure than what the NHRA provides. When was the last time you saw Ashley's name and face in the headline on every major sports website or TV show? I am not knocking Ashley, but the fact she is in the NHRA is one reasons why she isn't bigger. Of course, I am not talking about targeted demographics for particular products which will also influences who and where you spend your advertising $$.
Danica has instant name recognition in main stream America with both men and women. Ashley may be better looking (?), may be a better public speaker but few people would have any idea who she is or what she does. She just has very little name recongition and would be no different that a paid starlet speaking for your company/product. If I was looking for a spokesperson and had to choose between the two it would be Danica hands down. That's just business
Dems fightin' words.
She beat her teammates? I could beat Hideki Mutoh. Tony Kanaan was injured after Indy and Marco Andretti is wildly inconsistent. By the way, not one pole or win between any of them last season. So congrats to her for being the best of the mediocre. And do you really think she is the best driver on that team? Kanaan, when healthy, drives circles around her.
I am not saying she shouldn't be out there ... she is a good driver ... but I keep waiting for the results to catch up to the hype to merit the opportunities and equipment she gets.
What happens when the beauty fades and she will be expected to actually produce results rather than buzz?
Chris, I gotta say I am sorry. No one should be called or compared to Rusty.
I believe someone else here said this, if not, I am saying it, after Penske and Ganasi, she is the best of the rest. Meaning 2009 Season.
There is just too much put on her, and others, being a woman in a "mans" sport. I myself don't care what they are or not packing, as long as they are racers.
Some men just go out of their way to bash her, and the real reason they so do, is that she is a woman.
If we compare stats, and forget gender, that is a better representation of things.
Maybe she only has one IRL race win, but then maybe we should look at all those over the years who have run "INDY cars" and see just how they stack up. Wins, 2nd places, etc.
I bet we would all be surprised to see just how "bad" (well) she has really done.
One last thing, and I will leave this thread for the haters.
No matter how good a car you are given, if you don't have the skills to use it, you won't make a good showing.
Since you want to play numbers games, and that is what you are doing, I will be happy to join in just one last post.
AFH (or any drag racer) to win one "race":
4 opponents and a race distance of 1 mile. She has to beat 1 person at a time.
DP to win one "race":
Must beat 20 something, up to 32 other cars to win the race. This is over a course of up to 500 miles.
Tell me, who has the better odds?
You guys want to argue g-forces next?
That would be too easy, why do you disagree? You are a marketing guy, if I am an investor please explain to me why my $3m would yield a higher return if I sponsor Ashley vs. Danica. Please keep this discussion factual and not hypothetical because this is what you will have to do in the real world if you had to pick between the two.
Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
You are correct Paul, I am a marketing guy. And have been for the past 15 years for a few very large companies.
It is pointless for me to continue this discussion Paul. The point of my questions to you guys was to ask what you describe "MARKETABLITY" as. Because it's a trick question.
THE FACT is that "MARKETABILITY" is determained by ones OPINION of what is Marketable. That's why you guys couldn't answer the question of what is MARKETABLE. You couldn't put a number on it, couldn't put a description to it, couldn't place an exact trait or pesonality which best describes why DANICA is more marketable than ASHLEY.
To a company like Godaddy.com, or Boost Mobile, who's marketing agenda is to seek the 'extreme' client by using sex appeal as their main marketing platform, a person like Danica is a 'better choice' for them.
To a company like Castrol, AAA, Brand Source and Ford, the "GIRL NEXT DOOR" look which Ashley has works for them.
MARKETABLILITY CAN NOT BE DEFINED PAUL AND DEAN. It's based off the opinion or the needs of the company who is spending the money, the consumer who purchases the product and the investors who are supporting that company.
But, you and Dean are both animate of your opinion that Danica is more marketable, supported by the concept of name recognition. I tend to believe MARKETABILITY is more than simple name regocnition.
I tend to feel the best marketing asset is a person who makes me more money. The one who keeps my investors happy and the one who pleases my customers the most. They can make me more money by:
- Winning
- Being humble in defete
- Being fan friendly
- Being an articulate corportate spokes person for my company
- Having passion, but knowing how to harness it into a positive image.
So, this is why I won't discuss it in this thread any longer. It's a discussion which can have no winner or loser. It's simply going to go nowhere. Just like comparing Danica to Ashley. It's Different strokes for Different folks.
You're philosophy is different than mine. So is Dean's. It does not make yours better or worse than mine. If you'd like to chat marketing some time and get my take on it and why motorsports marketing as a whole is OUTDATED in my opinion, you know how to get ahold of me.
Thanks for responding Timmah, I always enjoy a good conversation. I have been very fortunate to have been in various jobs in Marketing, Operations, and now Commercial/Strategy so I have a little insight on what goes on from the inside of a large organization. My views are based on what I have been involved with when marketing decisions are made.
Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
You are welcome Paul
Ok, I can weigh in on this because I can be completely unbiased in my opinion. I am a Drag Race fan and participant by blood. I have made a living in drag racing for the past 11 years. I have done things simply because I love the sport and love what I did, that most people would drop tool and walk away from in the real world.
That being said, Timmah, and you know I love you man, you are biased toward drag racing. Step back a minute and look at the pure exposure DP has had in the last week alone. She increased the TV ratings for ARCA single handedly. She dominated the interviews, the press, the TV coverage on mainstream news and sports. All that and she is doing the equivilant of driving Super comp/Alcohol Dragster in NHRA. She was all over the TV last weekend, she was on CSI:NY on Tuesday? CBS Prime Time infront of at least 5 Million households of the public consumer. She was featured in a Super Bowl ad! GoDaddy probably spent more on airtime in the last week than they did all of last year, because they want to be sucked along with her press. Good or bad...If your selling "widgets" to the general public...and not Intake manifolds for a Big Block Chevy....your $3Million is way better spent on the DP comet than with Ashley. I love Ashley like a sister, and she is a great addition to the sport we all know and love. But from a pure, ROI standpoint, DP is a machine.
Wins and success in a given field are secondary to recognition and name/brand awareness. Michael Waltrip and NAPA is a prime example. Also, throw Aarons into that mix, because Mikey can't drive a sharp stick up a goats ass compared to JJ, JG and TS, but NAPA loves him enough that they still pay him to be their spokesman...and he isnt even going to be driving much this year....Dale Jr is another example...hasn't won a race in over a year, hasn't really lived up to the Earnhardt name(easy Jr. Nation) but he is a marketing juggernaught.
Ok, I'm out of gas.....somebody else talk now.
That being said, Timmah, and you know I love you man, you are biased toward drag racing. Step back a minute and look at the pure exposure DP has had in the last week alone. She increased the TV ratings for ARCA single handedly. She dominated the interviews, the press, the TV coverage on mainstream news and sports. All that and she is doing the equivilant of driving Super comp/Alcohol Dragster in NHRA. She was all over the TV last weekend, she was on CSI:NY on Tuesday? CBS Prime Time infront of at least 5 Million households of the public consumer. She was featured in a Super Bowl ad! GoDaddy probably spent more on airtime in the last week than they did all of last year, because they want to be sucked along with her press. Good or bad...If your selling "widgets" to the general public...and not Intake manifolds for a Big Block Chevy....your $3Million is way better spent on the DP comet than with Ashley. I love Ashley like a sister, and she is a great addition to the sport we all know and love. But from a pure, ROI standpoint, DP is a machine.
Wins and success in a given field are secondary to recognition and name/brand awareness. Michael Waltrip and NAPA is a prime example. Also, throw Aarons into that mix, because Mikey can't drive a sharp stick up a goats ass compared to JJ, JG and TS, but NAPA loves him enough that they still pay him to be their spokesman...and he isnt even going to be driving much this year....Dale Jr is another example...hasn't won a race in over a year, hasn't really lived up to the Earnhardt name(easy Jr. Nation) but he is a marketing juggernaught.
Ok, I'm out of gas.....somebody else talk now.
Tim5636sc
Nitro Member
Great post Tom. Couldn't agree more that DP is a MACHINE. This is what I was looking for.
...And I love ya too man! Does it just seem wrong that the two of us are posting on Nitromater.com instead of being at the season opening 50th NHRA Winternationals.
I hear ya....first time in 11 years I havn't been at the season opener...and the 50th Anniversary one at that.....that actually shows you how niche the sport is that we love. I'm watching the Daytona 500, listening to the audiocast of NHRA and keeping up on the 'mater...
I WILL be back.......
I WILL be back.......
