none
Nitro Member
Tech Guy: Your engine is checking big.
Racer: Can't be, the guy I bought it from said it's a 283!
Alan
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Nitromater
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Pro Stock rules meeting
- Thread starter BOO BOO
- Start date
Tech Guy: Your engine is checking big.
Racer: Can't be, the guy I bought it from said it's a 283!
Alan
Alan is right here...
By 1981, The Hemi had one of the most favorable weight breaks in Pro Stock... While NHRA might have been the problem in 1972-'73, by the 500" era...Chrysler was the problem. The short wheelbase Hemi cars were at 6.4 lbs./CI and the long wheelbase Cleveland (Read: Fairmont) was at 7.1, NHRA was not the problem. The issue was the lack of aftermarket for the Hemi. The 1980/81 cars were using modified 383 blocks, with 6-year-old heads and factory valve gear. (I've got one of these pieces, some interesting tech under the valve cover!)
By the 500" era, Chrysler had no new blocks and heads. Reid Whisnant was using highly welded D4 heads from 1974 on his Landy-built 500" stuff. Fortunately, the KB block was allowed. While some aftermarket appeared (Dart Engineering heads), there were still valvetrain issues with the 426 Hemi that really wouldn't be resolved until the late 90's with the advent of the Barton/T&D valve gear.
mick
Nitro Member
in some sense of this meaning, i believe this is what the PS meeting was about. i could be wrong.
Back in the 90's when I was working on a TAD team, I always heard whispers about Bill Barney, but never got the actual story...would love to know. He certainly made a quick exit from the racing scene around 1990? The other story I also heard (true or not?) was about a alcohol funny car team getting busted for having a body prop that took King Kong to carry. They could be 50lbs on the track but then roll over the scales and be on the money. Truth or fiction Randy??
There were a number of TAD's with heavy header covers, heavy injector covers, Small bores on the front two cylinders, long strokes on the back three crank throws. And lead plugs in the helmets when going across the scales.
I read that Bill Barney was claiming a certain size engine, but in reality, engine was too big. He got busted for it & that was that. He had Castrol as a sponsor at the time, lost that. On the subject of lead lined helmets, Jim Dunn was kinda infamous for that. The first F/C he ran was underweight, thus the helmet. I remember him running 6.90's when that was quick.
Randy
Nitro Member
Back in the day tech would typically pump cylinder #1. One day they decided to mix it up and check another hole. Come to find out, cylinder #1 was the only legitimate hole. Everything he accomplished now has an asteric *.
Our tech guy Jim came in my pit one day at Las Vegas and asked to see the injector off the supercharger, supercharger off the manifold, and the 2-4-6-8 head removed. My guys complied, and we took a chair while he had his way with our stuff. After he was done I told him anyone caught cheating even once would taint everything they've done in their racing career. I won't risk it.
The heavy body pole made quite a noise when it was accidentally dropped. Things like that and lead shot found in pouches inside engine covers is why funny car bodies must be down, and no engine or header tube covers were allowed through the scales.
Our tech guy Jim came in my pit one day at Las Vegas and asked to see the injector off the supercharger, supercharger off the manifold, and the 2-4-6-8 head removed. My guys complied, and we took a chair while he had his way with our stuff. After he was done I told him anyone caught cheating even once would taint everything they've done in their racing career. I won't risk it.
The heavy body pole made quite a noise when it was accidentally dropped. Things like that and lead shot found in pouches inside engine covers is why funny car bodies must be down, and no engine or header tube covers were allowed through the scales.
M Jones
Nitro Member
I never understood how some one that knew they were cheating that bad could not see a lying fake in the reflection in the mirror, now making sure your your on the limits is being smart and part of the total win for a driver and crew, cheating never made sense to me
What I was thinking. They checked #1 because was easier than checking # 8. Curious....how often does NHRA require a PS team, for example, to tear an engine down for inspection - or is it random along the lines of drug testing?
In RE your question about "So I just run it", yeah, it's technically cheating but in some instances it could be 'cheating lite' if the non-approved part wasn't designed to gain a performance advantage, such as Clay Millican's improperly secured ballast bag that caused so much controversy.
I raced BIG INCH Bill and beat him at Pomona with a legal cubic inch motor. 2 weeks after he was caught, there was a add in national dragster for two 540 cu. in. same as BIG INCH BILLS motor. from the same manufacturer. on sale from another racer who went top fuel racing after that. Hum 
Larry Sutton---
Larry Sutton---
Rich
The body pole story is true. 1 for the crew members to remove before the run, And another the driver installed after the run. the driver was also the owner. LOL.
There are also 10 pound helmets in some trophy case's. Naaaaa LOL
Larry Sutton---
none
Nitro Member
Not arguing, just asking. Why would it be "Technically Cheating" if there is no rule about it?
Alan
DG
Nitro Member
We used to call it "Creative Interpretation" in Competition Eliminator <VBG>
Thanks Larry (and others). I am sure Marc may have some battle stories as well (I was involved in D3 TAD back in the early 90's and remember Marc well). This "dark side" of creativity and ingenuity is actually quite fascinating. Adding to the mystique is the fact that the average Joe never gets to hear the full story as the sanctioning body likes to keep many of these under wraps. To avoid sidetracking the original topic I may start a new thread about this!Rich
The body pole story is true. 1 for the crew members to remove before the run, And another the driver installed after the run. the driver was also the owner. LOL.
There are also 10 pound helmets in some trophy case's. Naaaaa LOL
Larry Sutton---
none
Nitro Member
It is true that there was no rule prohibiting Nitrous. As to whether it was actually being used, I have an opinion about that, but if called to testify under oath, I could not swear one way or another. That era was before I was heavily involved.
The Eckman case where the bottle was found is pretty clear cut, the other "Rumors" not so much.
Alan
The Eckman case where the bottle was found is pretty clear cut, the other "Rumors" not so much.
Alan
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Early days of pro stock. I was starting at Irwindale and I heard a load pop. it was from a Pinto pro stock car in the staging lanes. the Driver got out of the car walked back to the pits and quit racing that day. A nitrous bottle makes a very loud pop win it explodes. That Pinto has made a million runs since being sold. that cars runs Pro gas today and is owned by a friend of mine Randy Fabro. "And now you Know the rest of the story" (Paul Harvey) LOL
Larry Sutton---
Larry Sutton---
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'Cheating' is probably not the right word; Gerard's term is more appropriate.
But is it not true that with only a few exceptions every part in a Pro-class car (and possibly others) needs pre-approval or else it's illegal? You're right; that wouldn't be cheating per se but it could be grounds for disqualification if discovered.
none
Nitro Member
On the Nitro cars all the parts must be approved before being run. Not true in PS. They do now have minimum weights for the moving and rotating parts.
At the begining of the EFI era there was a minor controvery about some PS teams maybe having a spray bar in the manifold (Think water mister at an outdoor cafe) that was worth 5 to 8 horsepower. Because it would cool the aircharge in the manifold. Then a rule was made that said "All fuel must go through the 8 fuel injectors" so that became illegal. But before the rule, in my mind it was OK.
Like the Nitrous, I couldn't swear to anyone actually doing it, but there was enough whispering going on that I'm pretty sure someone at least tried it.
Alan
At the begining of the EFI era there was a minor controvery about some PS teams maybe having a spray bar in the manifold (Think water mister at an outdoor cafe) that was worth 5 to 8 horsepower. Because it would cool the aircharge in the manifold. Then a rule was made that said "All fuel must go through the 8 fuel injectors" so that became illegal. But before the rule, in my mind it was OK.
Like the Nitrous, I couldn't swear to anyone actually doing it, but there was enough whispering going on that I'm pretty sure someone at least tried it.
Alan
