Nitromater

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Pro Stock rules meeting

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Ted and Ken,

I completely understand your position on the MOPARs and wouldn't for a minute think I could change your minds. Were there some rules in the early days of Pro Stock that targeted a certain make or combination? Of course there was.

But in 1982 NHRA said 500 cubic inches and 2350 pounds. Have at it. The next major change was 2016 when they EFI and rev-limiter era began. That's 34 years of no rules being changed and no manufacturer being targeted. Darrel Alderman won three championships, Allen Johnson won one and "The Dodge Boys" won numerous races and no rules or procedure was made to slow them down. So you can't really claim that there have been constant efforts to punish MOPAR.

NHRA was not targeting the Dodges with the rev-limiter, NHRA was attempting to save the teams from having to replace valve springs every run down the track which was enormously expensive. And as is always the case when there's a major change, someone figured it out first. In this case KB Racing. And the car that finally broke their streak, was Allen Johnson's Dodge.

The HEMI (which is not even remotely a HEMI but that's not the point here) had better high RPM breathing characteristics so they did take a bigger hit, but that was not the intent. They needed a redesigned cylinder head, and MOPAR didn't want to invest in the program.

Alan
 
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Living in Southern Illinois for 49 of my 67 years watching the Dodge Boys about 90 miles from Wayne Co Speed shop in Fairfield IL was highly entertaining. Alderman and Geoffrion gave WJ fits, everyone accused everyone of cheating and then BOOM the big blowup at Wayne Co. Look it up! Actually drove through Fairfield long after and Wayne Co Speed Shop was still a working auto repair shop. Much closer was Buddy Ingersoll and his son Mark the now famous crew chief in Herrin, IL. Being a new Nhra fan watching on TNN and going wow they live right near me was fun and got me hooked for life. Glad to see Mark finally back at the track, God Bless you.
 
Living in Southern Illinois for 49 of my 67 years watching the Dodge Boys about 90 miles from Wayne Co Speed shop in Fairfield IL was highly entertaining. Alderman and Geoffrion gave WJ fits, everyone accused everyone of cheating and then BOOM the big blowup at Wayne Co. Look it up!
That subject has been beat to death on here.
 
Pro Stock tomfoolery, from what I've been told, is widespread and it's been going on for decades. I discussed it once with a prominent engine builder (including PS engines) and he told me it's not so much actual cheating but theft and attempted theft of secrets from other teams. I can cite one example...

Once at the 'Plex as I was browsing the pits I snapped a picture of the back of Greg Anderson's and Jason Line's Camaros from outside the ropes, maybe 20' away. Not because I was interested in the rear suspension but because it was the only shot available. A crew member unceremoniously ran my ass off and told me in plain terms to not come back. I told him I hope Erica Enders takes out both of your cars in the early rounds.

But if it's as bad as that builder said later, I can understand. I'm old enough to remember Glidden throwing his fire jacket over the intake of his TBird after a horrendous multi-rollover crash, far more concerned about someone taking a picture of the manifold than he was his own physical condition.
 
Pro Stock tomfoolery, from what I've been told, is widespread and it's been going on for decades. I discussed it once with a prominent engine builder (including PS engines) and he told me it's not so much actual cheating but theft and attempted theft of secrets from other teams. I can cite one example...

Once at the 'Plex as I was browsing the pits I snapped a picture of the back of Greg Anderson's and Jason Line's Camaros from outside the ropes, maybe 20' away. Not because I was interested in the rear suspension but because it was the only shot available. A crew member unceremoniously ran my ass off and told me in plain terms to not come back. I told him I hope Erica Enders takes out both of your cars in the early rounds.

But if it's as bad as that builder said later, I can understand. I'm old enough to remember Glidden throwing his fire jacket over the intake of his TBird after a horrendous multi-rollover crash, far more concerned about someone taking a picture of the manifold than he was his own physical condition.
I would've told that crew member to kiss my ass. They all probably had on pretty pink panties that day.
 
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Tomfoolery in Pro Stock? You mean like sleaving the #1 cylinder to a 4" bore when the others were 4.125? When tech would check it simply pull out the number one plug and pump away. Your 375 CI engine is magically a 350.....

All you really need is a heavy 4" piston for balance. You could even design the headers to make it impossible to get the gauge into any other spark plug hole.

Alan
 
finally got around to listening to latest S-n-B last nite. the elite/kb situation was briefly discussed.
the topic of recent PS meeting was hinted as being about air.
 
Somebody help me out here. What would necessitate a rule that would prevent a team from moving a "good set of tires and wheels" among their cars? That makes zero sense.
No tire swapping ??? That seems crazy to me. If a team car gets eliminated in round 1 why can't those tires or wheels be used on another team car that is still racing ???
 
No tire swapping ??? That seems crazy to me. If a team car gets eliminated in round 1 why can't those tires or wheels be used on another team car that is still racing ???
I think there is a rule that covers engines as well. I could be wrong but I seem to remember that you can't take a qualified engine and put it another car. You can take out a qualified engine and put in another but the qualified engine can't be used in another car. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
 
Tomfoolery in Pro Stock? You mean like sleaving the #1 cylinder to a 4" bore when the others were 4.125? When tech would check it simply pull out the number one plug and pump away. Your 375 CI engine is magically a 350.....

All you really need is a heavy 4" piston for balance. You could even design the headers to make it impossible to get the gauge into any other spark plug hole.

Alan
Does that mean we've watched a few DRCE 525's go down the track in a Pro Stock Car? LOL

That's an amazing story and I bet you've seen dozens more in a similar vein. The only time I attempted to 'cheat' was decades ago when I swapped out the old Carter WCFB on my Impala for a Quadrajet setup from a '66 model and attempted to run it in Stock at the old Faxon, OK track. A sharp-eyed pre-race inspector, believe it or not, saw it and stuck me in D/Modified Production.

I don't know what the record in that class was but I'm pretty sure it was quicker than 15.00. Being the only car in the class I drove away with the trophy which I still have.
 
Does that mean we've watched a few DRCE 525's go down the track in a Pro Stock Car? LOL

That's an amazing story and I bet you've seen dozens more in a similar vein. The only time I attempted to 'cheat' was decades ago when I swapped out the old Carter WCFB on my Impala for a Quadrajet setup from a '66 model and attempted to run it in Stock at the old Faxon, OK track. A sharp-eyed pre-race inspector, believe it or not, saw it and stuck me in D/Modified Production.

I don't know what the record in that class was but I'm pretty sure it was quicker than 15.00. Being the only car in the class I drove away with the trophy which I still have.

I don't believe that has happened in the modern era, that was more of a "Back in the Day" thing. Doesn't mean there hasn't been some exploration of the gray area.

Here's a classic: I have an "unapproved" part, There is no rule covering this part. If I present it for approval, then it's not a secret anymore and any advantage I may have had is gone. Or they may make a rule deeming my part illegal. So I just run it. Am I cheating?

You make the call.

Alan
 
Tomfoolery in Pro Stock? You mean like sleaving the #1 cylinder to a 4" bore when the others were 4.125? When tech would check it simply pull out the number one plug and pump away. Your 375 CI engine is magically a 350.....
Alan
That's genius ! I love it. Met and spoke with you at the Xtreme racer banquet this offseason. Sorry to see things didn't work out for you with them. Sure miss hearing you on the mic.
 
wait! u mean to tell when NHRA comes into your pit and wants to check for Cid, You get to chose which cylinder?
 
I'm talking years ago, they would just pump whatever one was easy to access. These days they will pull a head, and a piston and rod out. It's a different era.

Alan
 
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