Pro Stock rules meeting

[none]

Here's a fun one, when I was working with David Nickens on the MOPAR program, most of the teams had covers on the intake manifold to keep anyone from even getting a clue about plenum size, runner length, etc. We never covered anything. And those in the Pro Stock "Know" would often shake their head looking at our manifold, HUGE plenum and extremely short runners compared to what everyone knew was the way to go.

What they could see was that yes, we had the manifolds built like that, but then we filled them with epoxy and machined the inside to what we wanted. We could take one manifold, try six different runners and plenums and when we were done, fill it up with epoxy and start over. Instead of buying 10 manifolds to try things, we just kept grinding out, then re-adding epoxy untl we got what we wanted.

I know of one team that had an aluminum (I think it was actually cast not billet) valley tray and various plenums but used composite runners. They could cut and glue until they got the magic combo, again without having to buy or make 15 manifolds.

Alan

 

[glofria]

Me thinks the only rule change needed is to take the name "Stock" out of Pro Stock.

 

[camaro]

It is true that there was no rule prohibiting Nitrous. As to whether it was actually being used, I have an opinion about that, bit if called to testify under oath, I could not swear one way or another. That era was before I was heavily involved.

The Eckman case where the bottle was found is pretty clear cut, the other "Rumors" not so much.

Alan

whenever this subject re emerges, i always wonder why most seem to overlook the obvious, damming evidence, they were using the funny juice. Albeit circumstantial evidence, they could never re produce their motors, after they were 'destroyed'. In those days, if the same thing had happen to Warren Johnson, I'm pretty Sure he would have built replacement motors inside a week, along with adding a couple of Dobermans to stand guard at the shop. As for Nitrous not being in the rule book at the time, i think Bob Glidden responded to that theory, the best when he commented 'putting a supercharger on a pro stock car was not in the rule book either'. I guess, if it's not stated specifically in the rule book, than its not illegal ?

 

[twostep]

Speaking of Pro Stock manifolds, Larry Morgan had the best take on the subject one afternoon during some TV filler time in between rounds when Fox decided to tour the pits and ask the teams about the secrecy. Morgan took them over to his car, displayed his manifold for all to see and said "I don't know why all the fuss about manifolds. I simply use mine to hold the carburetors up."

Classic.

 

[Randy]

Back when we actually started running well with our TA/FC in the late 1990's we had a particular competitor owner/driver that would conveniently walk his dog through my pit area about the same time we had the clutch apart.

One weekend I happened to bring an old AFT aluminum clutch hat complete with levers and counterweights. I had the longest bolts that would fit with biggest stack of nuts on each lever with as many flat washers as I could stack on it as well. I also had the static spring set screw buried clear down to the lock nut on all 6 springs. After a run I set it on the table next to the back of the trailer with a fan on it like we had just made a run and I was cooling it. The usual suspect happened to walk through my pit and see it. I was tempted to go up for the next round of qualifying to see if he smoked the tires.

After thinking about it, we decided not to do it any more.

 

[DG]

Back in the day, when we were running B/Econo Dragster, with one of Bill Hays' ignition boxes, I saw a big black knob at a surplus store, with arrows and text that said; "<-- DECREASE | INCREASE -->"around the circumference!

I bought the thing and glued it to the top of the ignition box just to screw with people.

Well, right after the next race I got a call from our friend, Bill Hays, to PLEASE take the knob off of the box, as he was getting a bunch of calls asking for the "new box"!!

I didn't intent to annoy Bill, but it was fun watch the people at the races scope out the "new box"!

 

[Randy]

Back in the day, when we were running B/Econo Dragster, with one of Bill Hays' ignition boxes, I saw a big black knob at a surplus store, with arrows and text that said; "<-- DECREASE | INCREASE -->"around the circumference!

I bought the thing and glued it to the top of the ignition box just to screw with people.

Well, right after the next race I got a call from our friend, Bill Hays, to PLEASE take the knob off of the box, as he was getting a bunch of calls asking for the "new box"!!

I didn't intent to annoy Bill, but it was fun watch the people at the races scope out the "new box"!

Now that's funny!

 

[none]

Some of the stories are like the famous "Terible Towel" that Dale Armstrong used to cover the gas pedal on Berstein's Funny Car. When he was asked: "What's under the towel?" He would smile and say: "The gas Pedal." If you can get your competition more worried about what you are doing than what they are doing, that's an advantage.

Randy may remember this, there was a TAFC racer (Maybe Jay Payne?) back in the Whipple era that had an old blower that wouldn't recertify, so he took it to the race and was grinding on the bottom opening of it (completely illegal) behind his trailer while everyone went crazy. He of course had a new one that was on the car.....

Alan

 

[none]

We messed with a TAD racer back during the Rydin Decal days. He swore we were doing something fishy. Told him come on over and look at anything you want. Took the front wing off and wrapped it in a blanket and taped it up. We got a good laugh out of it. Him not so much. All good in the end.

 

[Randy]

Some of the stories are like the famous "Terible Towel" that Dale Armstrong used to cover the gas pedal on Berstein's Funny Car. When he was asked: "What's under the towel?" He would smile and say: "The gas Pedal." If you can get your competition more worried about what you are doing than what they are doing, that's an advantage.

Randy may remember this, there was a TAFC racer (Maybe Jay Payne?) back in the Whipple era that had an old blower that wouldn't recertify, so he took it to the race and was grinding on the bottom opening of it (completely illegal) behind his trailer while everyone went crazy. He of course had a new one that was on the car.....

Alan

I remember it, but I don't remember who it was.

 

[twostep]

The Terrible Towel 'scam' is the one I fondly remember and among many others I actually thought there was some sort of speed secret underneath it. Turns out the 'speed secret' was back in the pits - Dale Armstrong. If I recall, Armstrong, while he didn't invent the lockup clutch (Clayton Harris, maybe?) he pretty much perfected it for FC use. One of the reasons Bernstein was virtually unbeatable during the mid 80s.

 

[Nunz]

The Terrible Towel 'scam' is the one I fondly remember and among many others I actually thought there was some sort of speed secret underneath it. Turns out the 'speed secret' was back in the pits - Dale Armstrong. If I recall, Armstrong, while he didn't invent the lockup clutch (Clayton Harris, maybe?) he pretty much perfected it for FC use. One of the reasons Bernstein was virtually unbeatable during the mid 80s.

I believe the competition caught on when Bernstein was on a single, and the other guys could hear the pitch change as the clutch locked up during the run. Cool stuff!

 

[twostep]

I believe the competition caught on when Bernstein was on a single, and the other guys could hear the pitch change as the clutch locked up during the run. Cool stuff!

Quite apparent during the inaugural Texas Motorplex event in 1986 where he bombed the record. I heard it myself, although at that time I wasn't aware of what it was. It almost sounded as if they'd put a 2 speed back in the car.

Did anything definitive come from this PS meeting or did they just toss some ideas around like we've been discussing?

Rhetorical question....NHRA puts you in charge and tells you to change or not change the rules or even delete a category altogether when it comes to Pro Stock, Factory Stock and Factory X. I can't honestly say; there's no everyone-wins solution in any case. I like the idea of Factory X because the cars more closely resemble what you see on the street and there's 3 different makes competing despite two of them no longer being manufactured. It's an exciting class; 6.80/200 isn't slow.

If I HAD to cut a category it would be Pro Stock. If they keep Pro Stock but with changes and it was up to me I'd allow scoops/no scoops and EFI or carbs for starters. There's a way around the all-Camaro issue but for some reason racers other than the Cuadras just aren't keen about putting GM DRCE's in other cars.

They really need to move beyond making a big deal out of moving tires from a team R1 loser to a team R1 winner and concentrate on what's going to save the class if NHRA wants it to continue on. Just my opinion.

 

[ironpony]

The Terrible Towel 'scam' is the one I fondly remember and among many others I actually thought there was some sort of speed secret underneath it. Turns out the 'speed secret' was back in the pits - Dale Armstrong. If I recall, Armstrong, while he didn't invent the lockup clutch (Clayton Harris, maybe?) he pretty much perfected it for FC use. One of the reasons Bernstein was virtually unbeatable during the mid 80s.

I was under the impression Jim Head started the clutch deal, basically the way aircraft brakes work. I have heard it a that way a few times anyway

 

[Cliff]

Gary Ormsby also had a "towel" thing. Don't remember what it was, but got everyone going. There have been a lot of things over the years that made a big splash. Cook & Bedwell (Emory Cook, driver, Native American & Cliff Bedwell, the motor man) ran 166 MPH at Lions. Carbs & nitro with a Chrysler Hemi. Was so fast that it started the nitro ban. This was like Feb 1957. Trivia. Cook married the sister of Jauquin Arnett, of Bean Bandits fame. I wonder how much he learned from the Bandits, who were almost unbeatable in very early 1950's.

 

[twostep]

I was under the impression Jim Head started the clutch deal, basically the way aircraft brakes work. I have heard it a that way a few times anyway

If you want to go waaaaay back, the original which was designed for a tractor was patented in 1931. Some say Clayton Harris brought it to drag racing; Jim Head was involved but Dale Armstrong was the one who perfected it to the point of being competitive if not outright dominating for a period. Just what I've read; I don't have hands-on experience.

Help us out, Alan....

 

[Randy]

I wonder if Larry Sutton would recall who it was back in the front motor days that put a metal tire valve stem on one side the roll cage or frame. In the staging lanes the team would put a tire pressure gauge on the stem while acting suspicious. Made for a lot of head scratching. I never saw it but I heard about it.

Sutton might also remember Dwayne Lidtke and his cement filled rear tires. They would swap the wheels and tires after a run, saying that they didn't want to wear out the slicks towing around the pits before they went through the scales. He got caught.

I used to work with Dwayne back in the mid to late 1970's and was friends with Stan Shiroma, who used to build our oil pans. Stan drove Ray Zeller's "Midnight Skulker" funny car before driving the Lidtke and Zeller Chevrolet powered top fuel dragster. When they closed the original Irwindale Raceway, they held the record for top fuel there at 5.82. Steve Evans used to say that was the loudest top fuel car he'd ever heard.

 

[M Jones]

I wonder if Larry Sutton would recall who it was back in the front motor days that put a metal tire valve stem on one side the roll cage or frame. In the staging lanes the team would put a tire pressure gauge on the stem while acting suspicious. Made for a lot of head scratching. I never saw it but I heard about it.

Sutton might also remember Dwayne Lidtke and his cement filled rear tires. They would swap the wheels and tires after a run, saying that they didn't want to wear out the slicks towing around the pits before they went through the scales. He got caught.

I used to work with Dwayne back in the mid to late 1970's and was friends with Stan Shiroma, who used to build our oil pans. Stan drove Ray Zeller's "Midnight Skulker" funny car before driving the Lidtke and Zeller Chevrolet powered top fuel dragster. When they closed the original Irwindale Raceway, they held the record for top fuel there at 5.82. Steve Evans used to say that was the loudest top fuel car he'd ever heard.

Now these are the stories that are fun to hear

 

[DG]

Another time, back in the day when there was a lot of new stuff going on, once again, we annoyed Mr. Hayes.

He had given us a new type of ignition coil to test at the track, back to back.

We created a new mount close to the original coil to be able to just unplug the old one and plug in the new one.

At the same time we got a new manifold from Edelbrock and had installed it too, There was a pipe plug hole tapped into the back wall of the plenum for a Vacuum Port.

Just to screw with people , we retapped an old spark plug to match the manifold threads and connected the coil wire from which ever coil was not in use to the sparkplug and tucked the connection wiring wiring away, so you couldn't tell if it was "hot" or not!

People would come by and do a double take when they say the setup. If anyone asked what the hell we were doing, we would seriously respond: " Don't tell anyone, but it's a new "High Speed Fuel Ionizer"!

Once again, I got the call from Bill to take the damn thing off! So we did!

Oh, yeah... The new coil DID work better!

 

[sutton]

Randy
In the early day's racers liked to screw with each other all the time. but the air valve, some racers had them to check for cracks in sealed chassis. also there was guy that would have a very small bottle of SOMETHING and just before they fired the car the would put a few ounces of it in the tank and run away. LOL Mind games worked.
Larry Sutton---