Hammer Drops for Harleys (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Bobby Bennett
- Start date
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Nitro Member
Yeah, about 59 more! Then we can see how slow those boat-anchor V-twins really are.I say give the zuks more C.I.
matt Smith
Nitro Member
I am proud of NHRA for doing that.... I told them that 10 lbs was 3 hundrenths... So 20 lbs is good until they show there hand again... I bet the upper NHRA guys won't get Harley's now for Christmas...LOL
If they are smart they (Vance and Hines) will not show their hand until the Countdown starts. I think the NHRA will be hard pressed to make rules changes once the playoffs start. How does the NHRA come up with the weight to be added? I buy maybe 10lbs, but 20lbs seems a little crazy. I bet the Vance and Hines team are not happy campers and rightfully so. What ever happened to the times when one brand was dominant like Ford in PS when Glidden was kicking everyone's a$$? What happens when new Suzuki motor starts outperforming everyone, I would expect to see weight thrown their way.
It's about time..... I'm so glad NHRA finally got rid of Don Taylor and his Harley A$$ kissing... That's all he did.... Maybe now the class can be run like a real class and not let "Marketing Money" buy rules!!!! Time will tell.... S&S tried to get some new parts approved but NHRA and Don Taylor said no but Harley gets a 4 valve head??? Yea real fair......
Well NHRA chose to make the V Twins have 2 sets of rules..... V Rods can have anything they want and S&S powered motorcycles can't get anything......
Bullet
Nitro Member
There is really no comparison between the H-D's/Riceburner parity and Glidden dominating Pro Stock with a Ford (post 500ci implementation) as all engines were pushrod V8s w/carbs
In this instance we have two completely different engine configurations and capacities.
Bill
Nitro Member
Paul MIllers said, "What ever happened to the times when one brand was dominant like Ford in PS when Glidden was kicking everyone's a$$?"
What happened was it became painfully obvious that the pounds per cubic inch system that NHRA was using was an unmanageable nightmare, requiring constant correction and way too much of NHRA's oversight, so they abandoned it in favor of the "everybody just run 500 cubic inches," and they STILL have a flawed system in which one engine design dominates, after over 25 years of competition.
What happened was it became painfully obvious that the pounds per cubic inch system that NHRA was using was an unmanageable nightmare, requiring constant correction and way too much of NHRA's oversight, so they abandoned it in favor of the "everybody just run 500 cubic inches," and they STILL have a flawed system in which one engine design dominates, after over 25 years of competition.
yoda
Nitro Member
Didn't somebody (a pro- Matt maybe?) report here that the HD's were sandbagging at the top end as to not let on as to the true power of the new combo?
Maybe 20 pounds is right on target...
Bill
Nitro Member
But, not far enough...
The NHRA Rulebook says that in a class called L/A (L Altered) with everything else being equal, the weight "penalty" for going from a 2-valve head to a 4-valve head on an inline 4 cyl. engine is achieved by changing the weight per cubic inch requirement from 10 pounds per cube to 10.50 pounds per cubic inch. We can assume that that figure was arrived at after much thought by NHRA Tech. They don't post such rulings capriciously, or without considerable thought. The viability of people's race cars depends on the veracity of their rulings.
That's an increase of 5 percent. (10.5 divided by 10 = 1.05)
The "new" 4-valve, V-Twin Harleys now must carry a weight of 640 pounds, which compared to a 2-valve, 625-pound "Buell" (2-valve V-twin), comes out to (640 divided by 625 = 1.024) 2.4 percent more. That's less than half the penalty imposed by the Tech committee for the 4-valve L Altered.
Can someone explain to me why the factors should be so different for these two situations? They both involve a simple 2 for 4 valve configuration switch.
I am aware of the rule of thumb that the more cylinders an engine has for a given displacement, the more power it can make (all other things considered equal), but that is a consideration for the V-Twins vs. the Suzukis and Kawasakis, and doesn't come into play as I can see it, in this "Harley vs. Harley" situation.
If the 4-valve Harleys pulled as much increased weight as the L/Altered rules would require for this valve-configuration switch, they'd have to weigh (620 X 1.05) 651 pounds!
They don't have to weigh anything close to that.
What's wrong with this picture???
The NHRA Rulebook says that in a class called L/A (L Altered) with everything else being equal, the weight "penalty" for going from a 2-valve head to a 4-valve head on an inline 4 cyl. engine is achieved by changing the weight per cubic inch requirement from 10 pounds per cube to 10.50 pounds per cubic inch. We can assume that that figure was arrived at after much thought by NHRA Tech. They don't post such rulings capriciously, or without considerable thought. The viability of people's race cars depends on the veracity of their rulings.
That's an increase of 5 percent. (10.5 divided by 10 = 1.05)
The "new" 4-valve, V-Twin Harleys now must carry a weight of 640 pounds, which compared to a 2-valve, 625-pound "Buell" (2-valve V-twin), comes out to (640 divided by 625 = 1.024) 2.4 percent more. That's less than half the penalty imposed by the Tech committee for the 4-valve L Altered.
Can someone explain to me why the factors should be so different for these two situations? They both involve a simple 2 for 4 valve configuration switch.
I am aware of the rule of thumb that the more cylinders an engine has for a given displacement, the more power it can make (all other things considered equal), but that is a consideration for the V-Twins vs. the Suzukis and Kawasakis, and doesn't come into play as I can see it, in this "Harley vs. Harley" situation.
If the 4-valve Harleys pulled as much increased weight as the L/Altered rules would require for this valve-configuration switch, they'd have to weigh (620 X 1.05) 651 pounds!
They don't have to weigh anything close to that.
What's wrong with this picture???
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haagar
Nitro Member
A real quick glance through the rule book and the two classes that I could find different weights for two and four valve motors were F/D and L/A. I am not aware of anyone running a four valve motor in either of these classes so it is hard to say whether or not that is a fair number.
That is what I thought, the HDs ETs are quicker but the speed is down. Whats up with that?
Professor Dave
Nitro Member
low end HP versus high end HP.
haagar
Nitro Member
Hi Dave, you going to Maple Grove?
Also, the harleys have a big drag disadvantage with that tiny little windscreen.
*******
Nitro Member
What ?????
