nhra adds weight to Harleys (1 Viewer)

[Bobby Bennett]

NHRA ADDS WEIGHT TO HARLEY-DAVIDSON PSM

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag-racing/news/20586-nhra-adds-weight-to-harley-davidson-psm

Official NHRA Statement Here

 

[SundayNiagara]

Harley's get fatter!

NHRA COMPETITION NEWS



GLENDORA, Calif. (March 20, 2012) — Today, NHRA Competition announced the following weight adjustment for the Harley Davidson 160-cid, 4-valve combination in the Pro Stock Motorcycle category: Pro Stock Motorcycle Minimum Weight Adjustment



Following a review of recent performances in the Pro Stock Motorcycle category, NHRA announced today that the minimum weight for the Harley Davidson 160-cid, 4-valve combination will increase 20 pounds, from 640 pounds to 660 pounds. The adjustment is part of NHRA’s ongoing efforts at maintaining competition and parity within the category. The change becomes effective April 27, 2012, at the O’Reilly Auto Parts NHRA Spring Nationals presented by Super Start Batteries in Houston, which is the next stop on the NHRA Full Throttle Drag Racing Series for Pro Stock Motorcycles. The minimum weight for NHRA-accepted American pushrod V-Twin 160-cid will remain at 615 pounds, and the Suzuki 107-cid 2-valve will remain at 595 pounds. NHRA will continue to monitor performance and will make adjustments as necessary.

 

[Rat]

is 20 enough?

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

is 20 enough?

Not when you don't know how deep the reservoir is........

Sean D

 

[.]

is 20 enough?

Absolutely not! It should have been 40.

 

[sparky]

Untill George Bryce or anyone else for that matter can run a 160 C.I. 4 valve engine , this simply wont do for me. Glendora You Suck !
Oh yea, I have H.D. 84 Fxsb with 59,000 miles so its not H.D. I'm mad at... Fair is Fair and this is not !

 

[Rat]

Absolutely not! It should have been 40.

That is exactly what I was thinking. I don't think 20 is the right. Your telling me they took a week of meeting and investigation to just end the talks and slap on 20?! We are talking HUNDREDS of a second of a lead anytime they made a run and all we do is slap on 20. I would of at least slapped on 40 with a magnifying glass over the class in houston while debating if I should add another 20 and make it 60 total. This is like if someone stole your car and all the cops did was buy you a set of tires and gave you 1 gallon gas can and refused to chase the car down.

 

[Paul]

Not sure how I feel, V&H busts their a$$ over the winter and get penalized. Hector said he didn't a chance to work on his stuff and his program suffered accordingly. Steve Johnson said it best in his podcast, no one else worked on their programs due to other priorities and V&H did. What a shame. Parity was there at the end of last year and it went away over the winter, what does that tell you? I will look for the Arana's to have a clear advantage over the field in Houston since they were the only ones to be in the same league as the Harley's. I hope V&H saves what they gain between now and the Countdown and lay it on the field in the Countdown when the NHRA will be a lot less likely to make a rule change with a title on the line.

 

[MHayes]

That is exactly what I was thinking. I don't think 20 is the right. Your telling me they took a week of meeting and investigation to just end the talks and slap on 20?! We are talking HUNDREDS of a second of a lead anytime they made a run and all we do is slap on 20. I would of at least slapped on 40 with a magnifying glass over the class in houston while debating if I should add another 20 and make it 60 total. This is like if someone stole your car and all the cops did was buy you a set of tires and gave you 1 gallon gas can and refused to chase the car down.

And maybe you two geniuses can explain how you came up with 40lbs, since obviously both of you have been totally engulfed in the details of this since the Gators.

Hell, I'll even narrow the scope of my question to make it easier....what impact does a 20lb increase in weight on the Harleys have on the ET...oh yeah, under various scenarios of atmospheric conditions? We can extrapolate the results out (which wouldn't be exact) to 40 and 60lbs then

 

[Paul]

Hell, I'll even narrow the scope of my question to make it easier....what impact does a 20lb increase in weight on the Harleys have on the ET...oh yeah, under various scenarios of atmospheric conditions? We can extrapolate the results out (which wouldn't be exact) to 40 and 60lbs then

For small weight changes like this, the simple formula for calculating an ET based on HP and weight gives reasonable accurate results, that formula can be seen at Stealth 316 - Formulas for 1/4 mile ET & mph vs. hp & wgt .

Using that formula, at equal HP the increase from 640 to 660 lbs will slow the Harleys down by around 7 hundreds on their ET at the most.

The reason for the "at the most" qualifier is that they have the freedom to place the weight in a position that does them the most good, for example to help their 60 foot time, so the final ET difference may be less than 0.07 .

 

[MHayes]

For small weight changes like this, the simple formula for calculating an ET based on HP and weight gives reasonable accurate results, that formula can be seen at Stealth 316 - Formulas for 1/4 mile ET & mph vs. hp & wgt .

Using that formula, at equal HP the increase from 640 to 660 lbs will slow the Harleys down by around 7 hundreds on their ET at the most.

The reason for the "at the most" qualifier is that they have the freedom to place the weight in a position that does them the most good, for example to help their 60 foot time, so the final ET difference may be less than 0.07 .

Given what Paul has posted then, it appears that 20lbs is a good starting point based on the performance of the Harleys v "others" in Gainesville.

Thanks for the info Paul!

 

[matt Smith]

20 lbs is 3 to 5 hundredths and maybe 1.7 mph... Guys they were outrunning everyone 6 hundredths down the last 1/8 mile alone... Thats 40 to 50 horsepower. its a slap in the face... They need 20 to 30 cubic inches taken away... Or better yet just run the same style motor we do.. They ran that from 2004 to 2008... they won the championship in 08 with that motor... Run that and if they kick everyone butt with that motor then i will shake there hand until then it like running a lotus against a mustang...

 

[john]

you can check out the podcast I did with Matt earlier this evening here: Matt Smith On NHRA Rules Change | rpm2night.com

 

[Dave]

20 lbs is 3 to 5 hundredths and maybe 1.7 mph... Guys they were outrunning everyone 6 hundredths down the last 1/8 mile alone... Thats 40 to 50 horsepower. its a slap in the face... They need 20 to 30 cubic inches taken away... Or better yet just run the same style motor we do.. They ran that from 2004 to 2008... they won the championship in 08 with that motor... Run that and if they kick everyone butt with that motor then i will shake there hand until then it like running a lotus against a mustang...

So you get most of the 6 hundreths back.... Don't be late and it's all yours!

 

[twostep]

I posted on several occasions that this is a bandaid solution, one that won't satisfy anyone for very long. It's a step, I'm sure non-Harley riders appreciate getting the weight break, but it's not a very big step and it's not exactly in the right direction, either.

There is NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON to deny Buell teams the opportunity to develop a 4 valve, DOHC engine, if they (or S&S) want to take the time and money to do it. And there is NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON not to allow other teams to compete with a VRod of their own. Others would then have a choice: either develop and race a DOHC Harley, or race a pushrod engine (Harley, Buell, whatever) and get a 20-pound break.

 

[Rat]

And maybe you two geniuses can explain how you came up with 40lbs, since obviously both of you have been totally engulfed in the details of this since the Gators.

Hell, I'll even narrow the scope of my question to make it easier....what impact does a 20lb increase in weight on the Harleys have on the ET...oh yeah, under various scenarios of atmospheric conditions? We can extrapolate the results out (which wouldn't be exact) to 40 and 60lbs then

Of course, thanks for the love Mike. 20 is not gonna fix the problem because it doesn't fix parity and it still makes it where V&H have the best bikes and best engines. This class needs to be a class where nobody has the best anything. I wanna see a class where a suzuki or a bull has as good a shot running a national record as the V&H. It's suppose to be a class where no single team has a championship titled in there direction. 40 was wrong of me, i do feel 30 would settle it because it with my calculations, would take about 800's and that's what the class needs right now.

NHRA needs to make the weight penalties a new system. One that can represent parity. Like any bike that leads qualifying by 500ths or more gets 5 pounds put on (about 200ths taken away.) Develop a system where there is a maximum performance advantage before a weight penalty is added. NHRA needs to be implenting a parity system that can be put into effect after any run. Bottom line, I may not know exactly what I am talking about, but I think it's easy to understand what I mean. (hold the feedback, unless it's actually contributable)

 

[Rat]

I posted on several occasions that this is a bandaid solution, one that won't satisfy anyone for very long. It's a step, I'm sure non-Harley riders appreciate getting the weight break, but it's not a very big step and it's not exactly in the right direction, either.

There is NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON to deny Buell teams the opportunity to develop a 4 valve, DOHC engine, if they (or S&S) want to take the time and money to do it. And there is NO JUSTIFIABLE REASON not to allow other teams to compete with a VRod of their own. Others would then have a choice: either develop and race a DOHC Harley, or race a pushrod engine (Harley, Buell, whatever) and get a 20-pound break.

The justifiable reason has to be that NHRA is taking checks from HD and they dont want to share. I don't understand why, I don't really care because Parity could fix it all if there a moveable system in place. Either way NHRA and HD are killing this class slowly. If they at least let everyone run whatever they want HD would have an even better chance at winning cause right now they are at 2/16 and it would be more and parity would never even matter one bit, but since that's not how they want it, parity is an issue that makes this class a mess and all I offer are insights how to clean the mess up a little bit.

 

[sdwarf36]

20 lbs= .050-Wow-I wonder how fast they would be at 615 lbs? 6.60's?
Rather that dumbing down one brand-how about hopping up another? whatever happened to the DSR Suzuki? It failed NHRA acceptance because of the removable trans-what happened to it afterwards?

 

[elvis]

20 lbs= .050-Wow-I wonder how fast they would be at 615 lbs? 6.60's?
Rather that dumbing down one brand-how about hopping up another? whatever happened to the DSR Suzuki? It failed NHRA acceptance because of the removable trans-what happened to it afterwards?

Now Sherman, Suzuki did not pay NHRA the required $800,000 ante to get that motor approved....

 

[Rat]

Now Sherman, Suzuki did not pay NHRA the required $800,000 ante to get that motor approved....

I know there's alot of doubt around the 800,000 number, but if it's even 1 dollar, no one can argue that it's sad and pathetic that this sport can be bought. I just hope NHRA likes the headache they have constantly with this class. I bet it bought tons of advil.