Harley Davidson exclusiveness (1 Viewer)

[Rajunz]

Great piece by Bobby on the Harley Davidson exclusiveness. This is sure to get a storm brewing in the PSB pits.

http://www.competitionplus.com/drag...-nhras-decision-has-psm-in-a-no-win-situation

 

[MHayes]

This is sure to get a storm brewing in the PSB pits.

Why is that? There's absolutely nothing new that has been said in this article that we haven't heard already in multiple threads. However, I do think it provides a little more clarity on the issue.

There was one statement that was made in the article that I thought was a little over the top in terms of trying to stir the pot. Bobby said about V&H, "However, how can you be proud of your wins when the rules, and not your efforts, are the reason for winning?

Come on the V&H guys work harder than anyone out there in the PSM class IMO and to totally discount their efforts is rediculous. Give everyone the same equipment and I would be willing to bet that V&H will still be at the top!

 

[Rajunz]

..........Give everyone the same equipment and I would be willing to bet that V&H will still be at the top!

You're probably right, but no one will know with the rules that are in place. George Bryce had their number for many years.

The V Rods are definitely superior pieces of equipment compared to what the rest of the class has to work with. I can remember not all that long ago when a Harley Davidson couldn't even run within a half a second of the rest of the class, much less even qualify for an event. So they bought there way in through legislating engine designs. Plain and simple, their Championships are bought, not earned.

 

[mick]

don't understand the exclusivity to V&H.....does anyone know who
is stipulating this? is HD demanding this? or V&H asking for it?

 

[twostep]

Gotta love the saddles-on-the-bulls analogy....

Kudos to Bennett, who understandably is normally reserved, out of concern for the welfare of his magazine, when it comes to critiquing the NHRA. And while he didn't rip them to pieces in this article, he certainly didn't let them off the hook, either.

Well done piece.

 

[Paul]

don't understand the exclusivity to V&H.....does anyone know who
is stipulating this? is HD demanding this? or V&H asking for it?
.

I think the issue is that the HD engines are essentially one-offs, none of the parts are manufactured in any significant quantity. It doesn't appear that there are any castings involved, every part appears to be made using CNC methods.

So it would be costly for HD to make these available for purchase by other teams as currently they are being made in very low volumes using costly production methods and there's no casting molds they can use to pop them out faster.

In addition the fact that they are one-offs means they can make improvements on many of the parts any time they wish without getting NHRA approval or assigning new part number versions to them so others can purchase them.

For me its too far removed from the "stock" part of Pro Stock. I not saying the parts they use should have to be legitimate stock motorcycle parts, but at least require them to put part numbers on them and allow any other competitors to purchase them and also compete with Harley engines.

If they won't do that, change the rules so anybody that want's to can also build a proprietary custom engine that conforms to the same rules that the HD's use.

 

[.]

Glad to see this BS getting more media attention. The stars must have been in alignment today because this is the 3rd thing I've read about the Hardley's today.

This: To some competitors, Harley cycling wins already in the bag | PressDemocrat.com

and this:

Psm Racer
Press Release from Motorcycle Street & Strip to Harley. Other media outlets should follow in their footsteps

Mr. King

Please be informed that it is the opinion, and the current policy of Motorcycle Street & Strip Magazine that we will not help promote or assist in any way, to legitimize any wins by the Vance & Hines Harley-Davidson NHRA Pro Stock Motorcycle team.

MS&S has not in the 2012 season so far, and will continue not to, post any press releases related to any V&H / Harley-Davidson NHRA PSM team victories, as long as the current unfair, and biased class rules continue to exist in the PSM class.

Rules, and a biased relationship with the NHRA, in our opinion, that very obviously provides a deliberate, and unfair advantage to the V&H / Harley-Davidson PSM team.

Allowing the V&H / Harley-Davidson team to dominate unfairly, and in an unsportsmanlike ability over every other team, and rider in the NHRA PSM class.

Steven Summers
Editor MS&S

 

[Rat]

Why is that? There's absolutely nothing new that has been said in this article that we haven't heard already in multiple threads. However, I do think it provides a little more clarity on the issue.

There was one statement that was made in the article that I thought was a little over the top in terms of trying to stir the pot. Bobby said about V&H, "However, how can you be proud of your wins when the rules, and not your efforts, are the reason for winning?

Come on the V&H guys work harder than anyone out there in the PSM class IMO and to totally discount their efforts is rediculous. Give everyone the same equipment and I would be willing to bet that V&H will still be at the top!

Stir the pot of course, but is Bobby wrong? Hardly. It's easy to win when the class is molded around your equipment. There's no real competition for the team unless they make a mistake or the NHRA feels so inclined to update the rule book and even that is almost nothing.

I was 100% correct on this, though it was a no-brainer, NHRA will not make this class fair and balanced out of FEAR that checks will cease. Pure greed has replaced fair competition and it's something shameful that NHRA will attempt to sell this class to the fans as "fair and balanced" when they lack the ethnics to just say no.

It was much better when the Suzuki was paying, you at least had a fight for titles. NHRA needs a backbone and I am ashamed at all of the Brass that had a say in this class and the HD talks.

I have to set the record straight here, I don't think this article was meant to discredit V&H as a team, and company. I don't think V&H has any say on the NHRA/HD deal and what are they gonna do? Not win? You can't hate them for doing what they are supposed to do. They have a good reputation and can back it up. This season is unlike any other where anyone can tell the NHRA is just letting the Harley's win easily on sunday. Yes, it's not unlike most seasons how they are winning, but it is unlike any season when you look at what they do based on the rest. NHRA is damaging there reputation with this class right now and it's almost embarassing that they let it be go on when it's so very lopsided, I say this is the worst it's ever been since the HD's started. NHRA needs to get some ethics and a backbone and do 1 or 3 things:

1. Stop taking checks from HD because they will kill the class (I know many racers who are on the brink of leaving)

2. Tell HD to buy the class and make it all HD

3. Kill the class because it's a mockery of what the NHRA and WALLY PARKS stood for.

 

[sdwarf36]

Good article. Nothing that hasn't been said over here 100 times- but I'm sure more eyeballs will see it-and it carries more clout than messageboard winings.
If things were more even, I'd love to keep it as a 3 mfg. series. EASY EASY fix: take away some displacement from the V-Rod. 200-300cc? Its not even un-precidented in the class-there was a displacement difference between the 4v + 2v 4 cylinder motors. PS/B riders now have a review board-I'm sure they could come up with a number. Ask Byron how much hes willing to give up-then ask George how much he thinks they need-add together + divide by 2.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

2 rules;............1) a max cu. in. for all. / 2) a min lbs. for all. Parity solved.
A pro class should all run the same rules.

 

[TooTall999]

As the season progresses it's becoming readily apparent that the whole sandbagging theory is much more than a theory.Harley pays the NHRA; NHRA lets the Harleys keep winning as long as they create the illusion of close competition.....

 

[dboxell]

Even if someone could buy the equipment, you definatly would not buy the tuneup.

The Suzukis that are running are V&H (sealed) motors for the most part, the last non VH Suzuki was Ganns.

NHRA would not approve DSR Suzuki because it had a split Transmission case.

 

[n/a]

Give everyone the same equipment and I would be willing to bet that V&H will still be at the top!

If giving everyone the same equipment includes engine displacement and weight then V&H will need to run a Suzuki to be on top.

 

[PJ]

It's a shame. The V&H crew no doubt work hard and the riders are great BUT..... ya can't help but think its cubic money that is winning these races and championships.

I would be curious to see them in testing. Some spy footage, on an empty track, how fast do they really go. I am surprised that they haven't hot 200 yet just so that HD gets to be the official first. (weren't there rumors in the off season that one of them hit it?)
Anyway by the end of the season they will do it. Maybe flip a coin before a race, do it in the final at Indy or Pomona..whatever.

Used to love the class now I don't bother with it. Wondering if it should even stay in the pick the winners game. It's no longer a race

 

[stanzig44]

If giving everyone the same equipment includes engine displacement and weight then V&H will need to run a Suzuki to be on top.

Now this is funny!

 

[Rajunz]

2 rules;............1) a max cu. in. for all. / 2) a min lbs. for all. Parity solved.
A pro class should all run the same rules.

Now this is funny!

Actually, the Suzuki's would crush them if the cubic inches were equal. That goes back to what I posted earlier that the Harley's couldn't even get within a half a second of qualifying before they started manipulating the rules.

Thanks Brent for posting that article from Motorcycle Street & Strip. The editor, Steven Summers has his integrity in tact!

I've said it before, there is one person out there that has the power to make this right, and he's sponsoring the Hectors.

What would be ideal is for the rest of the field to sit out Brainard and Indy, leave the two HD's to roll up to the line side by side. Doesn't matter anyways, the points will be reset after Indy. I know there are some problems with this theory though, namely the Brainard race is a Lucus race, so I'm sure Forest wants his bikes there, and also there are a couple of riders still fighting for a spot in the top 10.

 

[Toejam]

If Harley Davidson has such a Deathgrip on PSB, what keeps the other sponsors coming back if they are at such a disadvantage???

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

If Harley Davidson has such a Deathgrip on PSB, what keeps the other sponsors coming back if they are at such a disadvantage???

My opinion would be lack of knowledge. I don't propose that any of them are stupid, but rather that they just don't have the applicable knowledge to truly understand what's going on here. I'll take that a step further and state that the more light that gets shed on this and the masses get truly educated, you may just see some or many of them drop off.

Yeah, the class is getting a lot of ink right now, but the bottom line is that unless something gets done, the rest of the field doesn't have a prayer of being consistent contenders for individual races, let alone championships. Not to say that's the sole thing that all prospective sponsors look at, because I'm sure it's not. However, the only ones that get any consistent mic time on television are the finalists, and we all know who that's going to be.

It's a joke...............

Sean D

 

[n/a]

Sean, can I fix that for you????

It's a POOR joke...............

 

[PJ]

If Harley Davidson has such a Deathgrip on PSB, what keeps the other sponsors coming back if they are at such a disadvantage???

A sponsors goal isn't about winning. They are there to market their product/service.
While winning certainly helps it is not the only means to achieve that goal.

Drivers such as LE have already lost sponsors and if I recall the disparity was the reason cited.