Well she has two chances. Either an Elite car that went for a R1 matchup with Greg pulls an upset or Erica gets a couple rounds against her team (producing automatic wins) and Greg loses to someone else. Hail Marys of sorts but who wouldn’t Like to see them go head to head for the whole deal?
Team Orders/Diving. What is your take? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ZWeinstein
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LasVegas87
Nitro Member
The late, great Dick Lahaie was gifted a 2nd round win to team owner Larry Minor in 1987 which allowed him to match up with Amato in a winner take all semi-final that ultimately led to Lahaie's championship. In the interview Lahaie admitted openly that Larry gave him that run. I was a huge Lahaie fan and was even more of a fan after the non-hesitant admittance of the gimme.
ironpony
Nitro Member
IMO NHRA teams are not teams. They run under the same banner but each has its own sponsor. If I was the sponsor putting up big money and my driver took a dive I would move my money elsewhere.
The is a minimal ROI on drag racing even if the driver goes to the finals, TV time. If they dive and cut that short, I can find a better way to spend my advertising money
The is a minimal ROI on drag racing even if the driver goes to the finals, TV time. If they dive and cut that short, I can find a better way to spend my advertising money
mikebcurve
Nitro Member
I don’t really have a problem with the current qualifying games. It does bother me because it takes away the reward of being a top qualifier. What if this becomes common practice throughout the countdowns in the future? Every countdown race trying to position 3 cars to take out the other contenders while throwing the race if they face their own team contender. What if someone wants that U.S. Nationals win really bad and they position blockers to help them? What if they really want to win a sponsors race? I’m sure these type of things have happened to some degree in the past. History has shown anytime someone discovers an advantage they take it to the extreme. I hope we never see this scenario. At some point would trying to qualify at the top even matter or would it be a negative?
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Dragracer
Nitro Member
Back in the day when dinosaurs roamed the earth and all the dragsters had motors in front of the driver they were racing for money, not points. Many times in Top Fuel when it came to the final round the car owners agreed to split to purse and both race for the win. This was before NHRA got their hands in and changed everything. There was also a rule that if a qualified car couldn't make the 1st round they would move the next quickest car into the race so there was a full field. I agree things have changed tremendously since then but all the changes have not been in the best interest of the racer.
It seems the only solution for this "taking a dive" problem would be for NHRA to ban multi car teams.
But it will still happen because who knows what's being discussed behind closed doors in those transporters.
Plus, it might make things harder for a multi car team to find sponsors. Let's say an owner/driver has a 2 car team with one sponsor and NHRA imposes a no more than one car per owner/driver rule. Then that owner/driver has to find another sponsor or stay with the one car of his choice. And if the sponsor loosing car is parked, that's one less race car for fans to watch.
I guess the only way this would work is to have a different sponsor for each car. And I'm sure someone would figure a work around for that also.
Oh well, never mind, let them fight it out amongst themselves. Just don't make it so obvious you took a "dive" even though you don't stand a chance for the championship but your team mate does.
But it will still happen because who knows what's being discussed behind closed doors in those transporters.
Plus, it might make things harder for a multi car team to find sponsors. Let's say an owner/driver has a 2 car team with one sponsor and NHRA imposes a no more than one car per owner/driver rule. Then that owner/driver has to find another sponsor or stay with the one car of his choice. And if the sponsor loosing car is parked, that's one less race car for fans to watch.
I guess the only way this would work is to have a different sponsor for each car. And I'm sure someone would figure a work around for that also.
Oh well, never mind, let them fight it out amongst themselves. Just don't make it so obvious you took a "dive" even though you don't stand a chance for the championship but your team mate does.
Chili
Nitro Member
More cars on tour would solve the clicking it off early in qualifying. 20 or more cars trying to make the field would make it difficult for the team to click it early and possibly risk not qualifying. There is nothing that NHRA can do during eliminations to prevent anyone from shoving in the clutch early. My crazy solution would be you only get half the round points if you beat a teammate in competition. That would punish Multi car teams that run heads up but it would curtail the diving. Next year Elite is going to have their hand in 8 cars so this issue will not be going away.
LasVegas87
Nitro Member
and Angie working to give Matt a R1 bye.
The 2021 season has also had the "win 2 real rounds" Wally winners. 14 Cars in 1st round and the #2 qualifier has #13 and a typically easy win on the way to a bye run 2nd round. The #2 qualifier only has a tough semi and final to win. There's two ways to fix that and the better way is to have at least 18 cars try to qualify.
Doubt those that ever qualify #2 to 4 would ever want anyone to know there is also another way to eliminate bye runs.
Doubt those that ever qualify #2 to 4 would ever want anyone to know there is also another way to eliminate bye runs.
MidnightbluS10
Nitro Member
What can Jegs say? They don't run Elite. How do you all know that those didn't take it upon themselves to do this? IMO, it's more likely than "team orders".
What about the ones that did it in PSM? Did Matt Smith give them team orders, too?
Chili
Nitro Member
In a 13 car field, it is smarter to qualify 2nd than 1st. I do think there will be full fields at most races next year. I don’t believe we will lose any current touring car. We will gain Hart for the entire season. Doug Foley will run more races and depending on how they do, they may be out for all the races. Tatum will be running more races as well. I heard Krista Baldwin could have something big in the works as well. Laughlin should be out for more races as well. Salinas might add a second car at some point as well. Chad Green’s kid could very well be out for some races in Wilk’s top fuel car. Let’s not forget that Tony will be out for the entire season too.
Funny car is looking solid too. Sounds like the 11 touring cars will return in 2022. I’m expecting Austin Prock to be in a FC. Bobby Bode will run 10 events and if they can get some sponsorship they will be out the whole year. Add in the strong part timers of Lee, Richards, Creasy, Jurado, McIntire, Green, Haddock, Miladinovich and Diehl most races will be close to full.
Pro stock will be full for sure. Elite will have 8 cars (Enders, Coughlin, Butner, Stanfield, Robertson, Cuadra x3). Add in Anderson, Glenn, Koretsky, Hartford, Kramer, McGaha x2, Caruso gives us 16. Not counting Delco, Smeland, Prusinsky, Callahan, and the handful of other part timers.
Things could change during the off season but most of the changes should be positive. We have survived the 20/21 season and NHRA looks to be in better shape than they did in 2019. Now if only we could get those TAFC and Pro Mod car counts up.
Chili
Nitro Member
I have no issue with Brittany trying to get Torrence in round 1. She isn’t relying on others to do her dirty work.
Prob her only chance. We’ll see what q3 brings. Trying to win R1 with no indicative runs in qualifying isn’t easy either.
Professional Fan
Nitro Member
Pretty funny, Coughlin, Stanfield and Cuadra all thru away their entire weekend so they could end up on the other side of the ladder from Erica and Greg and Greg gets the #16 qualifier.
Steve Johnson joined the "Let's get the championship for Matt Smith" party this afternoon when he crossed the centerline at the hit, costing him 15 points. Hate to see it.
Win and win at ANY cost. Win the World Series by stealing the catcher’s signs. Win the Super Bowl with deflated footballs. Win the Stanley Cup by having the meanest “goon”.
For decades, when writing about drag racing, Jeff Burk used to say, “It’s all about the Benjamins”. Nothing has changed
I started writing this post with ranting about how society has changed for the worse. How winning is everything now, ethics be damned. But then I realized that what Elite is doing is significantly more honest than what drag racing world champions did when round wins were bought in the pits 40+ years ago. Those wins were done in the dark, just like 100 years ago when the Chicago White Sox threw the World Series. It was about the Benjamins then and it’s about the Benjamins now.
I didn’t have much of a problem with KJ’s “Still go a job” sign back then as it was out in the open (and the other guys may well have been on “laughing gas” at the time). I don’t have a problem with Elite’s “teamwork” today as Greg Anderson did it to Erica first.
Does doing this out in the open make this “right”? It’s significantly more honest than doing it behind everyone’s back. But is it “right”? The Bible quotes numerous times: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” GA did it first, they are now doing it to him.
Win or lose the Championship, Elite is following what’s written in the Bible, so I guess Erica’s “Give God the Glory.” Statement is OK with Him.
Disclaimer: I hoped I waltzed around the edge of religion here and if I offended anyone, it was not my intention.
For decades, when writing about drag racing, Jeff Burk used to say, “It’s all about the Benjamins”. Nothing has changed
I started writing this post with ranting about how society has changed for the worse. How winning is everything now, ethics be damned. But then I realized that what Elite is doing is significantly more honest than what drag racing world champions did when round wins were bought in the pits 40+ years ago. Those wins were done in the dark, just like 100 years ago when the Chicago White Sox threw the World Series. It was about the Benjamins then and it’s about the Benjamins now.
I didn’t have much of a problem with KJ’s “Still go a job” sign back then as it was out in the open (and the other guys may well have been on “laughing gas” at the time). I don’t have a problem with Elite’s “teamwork” today as Greg Anderson did it to Erica first.
Does doing this out in the open make this “right”? It’s significantly more honest than doing it behind everyone’s back. But is it “right”? The Bible quotes numerous times: “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” GA did it first, they are now doing it to him.
Win or lose the Championship, Elite is following what’s written in the Bible, so I guess Erica’s “Give God the Glory.” Statement is OK with Him.
Disclaimer: I hoped I waltzed around the edge of religion here and if I offended anyone, it was not my intention.
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Phil, when you say GA did it first now Elite is doing it to them, you make it sound bad. People need to realize, sandbagging in qualifying to hopefully pair up with a certain opponent in the 1st round, is NOTHING LIKE TAKING A DIVE. Apples and oranges. I think the qualifying positioning games are fine, and pretty damn hard to execute. Think of it as calling out who you want to race, but in an NHRA big show format. Just my .02 FWIW. No matter what, should be an exciting day!
TD5023
Nitro Member
For what it's worth, matchup manipulation games happen at every level and have for years. If you go to your local bracket track at the end of the season, you'll see people hanging out at the back of the staging lanes when their class is called, and then when their target (i.e. the points leader) shows up, they'll tail that car and hope to draw it. Often, chasers will have a group of friends and they all have targets. Diving is one thing, but I've never seen anything wrong with targeting a specific opponent when their loss would be advantageous, especially if you have a "team" on your side.
