Team Orders (1 Viewer)

[.]

Once you have dive on your resume, it is hard to assume a race will be straight up when something important is on the line. Even when it is a legit failure, people will always question.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I can't recall you holding DSR to that same standard.

 

[none]

Robert could have been upside down and on fire and people would say he took a dive.

 

[PJ]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I can't recall you holding DSR to that same standard.

See regardless of who I root for or against, I don't change my standards to fit or justify actions. As I said, I get why it is done from a business perspective. The competitor in me would never want to win that way and the fan in me hates to watch it. I also know when the sponsor calls when teammates are in the final and they want plan A....you really can't stop that.

I didn't like it as a kid when Larry Minor and Gary Beck did it. Although I laughed at the sign, it was wrong when the Johnson's did it.

I appreciated when Mel wanted Morgan to go all out, even though he didn't want to and felt bad when his win kept her from the countdown. Despite how I feel about dives, I'm not sure that I could have done what he did, for the sake of the business, but I applaud him for it.

I can't recall an exact episode of team Schumacher doing this, although I know I am missing one. Something about a lane change several years ago is bringing back foggy memories. Not sure if I was on the mater then, if so you'd find me complaining about it then too. They seem to run straight up. Part of that is likely due to having different sponsors.

In most cases it really is hard to tell what is an honest smoke em up and what is intentional. Switching to the bad lane on a one lane track, having a horrific light and then trying to drive it into the wall all seems too convenient and is worthy of the criticism it receives.



Doesn't matter which team is doing it, I don't like it. I'd rather them leave a car in the pits and make a bye run then to try to dupe us. Honesty matters.

 

[vegasnitro]

The main difference between DSR and JFR is that the Don himself admitted to the dive, apologized for the dive and promised it would never happen again.

If it does happen again, you can be sure the Don will be skewered til the cows come home for it ... Just as some people are unwilling to let Force's dive go ... Ever.

 

[Dave]

I can't recall an exact episode of team Schumacher doing this, although I know I am missing one. Something about a lane change several years ago is bringing back foggy memories. Not sure if I was on the mater then, if so you'd find me complaining about it then too. They seem to run straight up. Part of that is likely due to having different sponsors.

In most cases it really is hard to tell what is an honest smoke em up and what is intentional. Switching to the bad lane on a one lane track, having a horrific light and then trying to drive it into the wall all seems too convenient and is worthy of the criticism it receives.

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=20947&Filter=Year2003#indextop

2003 Seattle. Gary Scelzi with lane choice took the "bad" left lane that nobody had won in all day and smoked the tires. Bazemore moved on in his championship hunt.

A side note about that race was the top fuel finals.. Dick Lahaie and Larry Dixon navigated that bad lane and defeated Doug Kalitta in a stunner.

 

[PJ]

I thought Scelzi was involved but couldn't remember anything other than bad lane. I knew somebody would remember though, thanks Dave.

 

[PJ]

Robert could have been upside down and on fire and people would say he took a dive.

Nope, that would be a slide sorry couldn't resist

 

[.]

I thought Scelzi was involved but couldn't remember anything other than bad lane. I knew somebody would remember though, thanks Dave.

So, does this line you posted earlier still apply?

Once you have dive on your resume, it is hard to assume a race will be straight up when something important is on the line. Even when it is a legit failure, people will always question.

 

[None]

As long as there are teams there will be team orders. Some teams are better at hiding it than others. What is best for the team comes first. This will never change as long as there are teams. If the Pro teams go away, NHRA goes with them. There is nothing wrong with team orders.

 

[Terry]

John, I agree with your statements about teams and team orders. And I personally have no problem with them if the owners feel they are needed as long as they are honest when directly asked about it. I just have trouble respecting organizations that won't own up to using them when it's painfully obvious that they have, that's all. Connie K. probably had the best idea...just don't bring the other car to the line and make no bones about why.

 

[PJ]

So, does this line you posted earlier still apply?

Is this where I point out that I do own a John Force sweatshirt so your feelings don't get hurt since you think I am picking on him?

It's like Terry said be honest and direct. Schumacher admitted it afterwards, said it was a mistake and as far as I can tell, has run straight up since.
If team Force continues to show their new direction as they did this past weekend, then as I said before, they are working at building a new reputation and that is good.

I'm Italian, you don't rebuild my trust overnight

 

[MHayes]

Is this where I point out that I do own a John Force sweatshirt so your feelings don't get hurt since you think I am picking on him?

It's like Terry said be honest and direct. Schumacher admitted it afterwards, said it was a mistake and as far as I can tell, has run straight up since.
If team Force continues to show their new direction as they did this past weekend, then as I said before, they are working at building a new reputation and that is good.

I'm Italian, you don't rebuild my trust overnight

Don admitted it during a time when there wasn't any rules saying that you couldn't dive......now that there are, JFR couldn't do so! Apples and oranges.

 

[twostep]

Robert Hight is President of JFR. John's the man, but you don't tell your prez to throw a race that he's personally involved in and expect to keep any degree of respect. Force is smarter than that, and if I were Courtney and I found out the win was given to me, I would have forfeited it. She's a racer, not a taker.

 

[Paul]

Robert Hight is President of JFR. John's the man, but you don't tell your prez to throw a race that he's personally involved in and expect to keep any degree of respect. Force is smarter than that, and if I were Courtney and I found out the win was given to me, I would have forfeited it. She's a racer, not a taker.

JFR lost all respect from the fans here and last Monday was the first step at regaining the trust of the fans. I hope it continues.

 

[None]

JFR lost all respect from the fans here and last Monday was the first step at regaining the trust of the fans. I hope it continues.

All? Never lost mine.

 

[Paul]

All? Never lost mine.

If you like team orders where they are chicken sh*t to admit to what they did, more power to you. I was never a fan of DSR until after Don stepped up after Seattle 2003 and went on the record and admitted to what happened and said it would never happen again, and the actions since then have made me a fan of his organization and what they have built.

 

[d'kid]

Look at MLB... Sac Fly, Bunt a runner up... most plays are some type of dive... Fords at Le Mann in the mid to late 60s... there isn't any thing wrong with team orders.... Winning isn't everything; It's The ONLY Thing!

And I have LESS Respect for a Team-Mate that won't 'lay down', if it's beneficial in the long term for the whole season For The TEAM.

d'kid

 

[Leebone]

AAA of Southern California sponsors Hight's car. I'm sure they wouldn't have appreciated him throwing the race, after pouring thousands of dollars into the car for the final.

 

[Leebone]

Robert Hight is President of JFR. John's the man, but you don't tell your prez to throw a race that he's personally involved in and expect to keep any degree of respect. Force is smarter than that, and if I were Courtney and I found out the win was given to me, I would have forfeited it. She's a racer, not a taker.

Can a driver forfeit a race after a win? I've never seen that. However, I agree with you. Courtney is a professional race car driver and I'm sure she wouldn't have wanted it given to her. Yes, she was upset, but like the late Vince Lombardi said, "show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." Courtney is certainly no loser. She can try again in Topeka. She's running well and currently qualified at #2. She better hope someone takes out Erica, which is a tall order, and watch out for Alexis.

 

[TooTall999]

Where's the beating a dead horse pic when you need it?