Team Orders/Diving. What is your take? (1 Viewer)

[Jon Asher]

As someone has already noted, team orders have been involved in motorsports since the first time someone thought their car was faster than the other guy's. The points made above about the business necessity of team orders are relevant and understandable. Like it or not, approve of it or not, you have to acknowledge that the F1 approach about being right out in the open about it is refreshing. The money and prestige that Red Bull might attain from Verstappen defeating Hamilton for the title is a helluva lot more than we might think, making team orders that much more understandable.

We have never liked team orders in drag racing, but it would be naive to think it's not going to continue unabated regardless of whatever rules NHRA comes up with to try and stop it. It's a losing battle for them, and frankly, doesn't look good in the media when accusations are thrown back and forth without there ever being the revelation of a proven dive.

As far as how someone going down should be handled, my theory is that if you even go to the starting line something can very easily happen that will not only upset your immediate plans, but blow up your long term goals as well. Do a burnout and intentionally shut off? That can work. Let the other guy leave first to make it look good? Bad plan, something's going to go wrong and you'll find yourself cruising to the finish line wondering where your partner is.

There's no point in even considering the financial aspects when it comes to drag racing because the championship payout is beyond embarrassingly low. But an individual team could have a really good bonus coming from a sponsor for a championship. The additional exposure during the following season can also make it worth doing.

But I think we all need to grow up and accept the fact that diving is going to continue for as long as there's racing. It's inevitable.

As has been pointed out, there've been a few instances when diving was nothing short of funny. Kurt Johnson coming down the return road at Indy holding up the big sign reading "I still have a job" was priceless, and earned a huge, positive reaction from the crowd. When John Force went in the tank to get Robert Hight into the Countdown and then had that huge confrontation with Tony Pedregon at the top end it resulted in the most riveting television segment drag racing had ever enjoyed, so maybe, instead of complaining about diving we should embrace it and relish the humorous side of things. --Jon Asher

 

[Professional Fan]

I would have rather they left Troy's car in the trailer than throw the race, lie about not doing it and then give glory to God. After that interview, Erica can go into politics when she is done racing. If I was a competitor, the championship would feel tainted since I didn't win it on my own. People will remember this for a long time if she wins the championship. Look at how many years have passed and John diving for Robert still comes up regularly. The good side, Dallas Glenn has a lot of new fans!

 

[Nunz]

I don't care. It's always the same winners anyway.I'm just about done with it.They moving all the teams around but it still same people, i'm sorry but it is becoming boring.

Well it's not always the same winners. Were you around during the early days of drag racing, where each category went through periods of domination by a single driver//team? I was a kid but was at Indy in '76 when Gary Burgin spoiled Snake's almost clean sweep of every national event that season. Force became the GOAT by having stretches where he won everything. So did Glidden and several others. We've mentioned F1 in this thread a few times, that form of motorsport is pretty popular, even though there are literally 10 teams and 20 drivers that make up the grid all season. I've said this a million times, but while I miss a lot of things about the good old days, I do not not find modern day drag racing to be boring. But that's just me. And like Alan always says, not arguing, just discussing.

 

[PJ]

Regarding Pro Stock, I don't think KJ running the #2 engine - if that really was the case for his whole career - is the same thing as taking a dive, etc. WJ against KJ in final rounds was 10-3; against Jim Yates was 11-5. 7-2 against Geoffrion. Similar results and no #2 engine there. KJ was 3-14 against Greg in final rounds. Considering KJ had like 60 wins in less than 20 seasons, that so-called #2 engine would have been most teams #1 engine.

KJ was NEVER at a "heavy performance disadvantage" with "essentially no shot at beating a teammate". This is a very poor example for this discussion. Between Hagan and Capps this year, who's been running the #2 engine? Would it have even mattered?

And as I stated before I find it difficult to believe a primary sponsor would sit still if rounds were being intentionally thrown. Hmm.....well NHRA does seem to have a problem getting sponsors.......oh well.

I can guarantee you sponsors have made the call, at times, in the past. If they can market being on the championship car, or even the runner up car in the championship or winner of one of the big races. It has happened.

 

[MidnightbluS10]

I couldn't care less what they do, personally.

Go Stanfield! I know his family, specifically his uncle and his uncles wife, Michelle? I think that's how it's spelled. She's been close with my mom for decades, going back to when Mike & Michelle used to come over every weekend and hang out in the 90s. Theyre really good people.

 

[twostep]

Can't quite see KB Racing, with it's decades long Summit connections, ever offering a Coughlin (Jegs family) much of anything.
Could you imagine Thanksgiving dinner at the Coughlin's if Troy Jr. took the deal!
You think when Larry Dixon was with the Miller Beer team, they would have ever offered a second car to Brandon Bernstein?
Maybe a ride in Dixon's current passenger seat... Let's go Brandon!

I know, Phil....it was a tongue-in-cheek comment. Sponsors aside, TC would have been Anderson's best friend for a moment, anyway.

 

[ironpony]

If you want to see team orders check out the Formula 1 race this Sunday from Mexico, the Red Bull team has already told Sergio Perez that he's not to challenge Max Verstappen in any way. Sucks for Perez as he's racing in front of his home town crowd as the only Mexican in the field.

like bob said. just watch F1, and/or look into F1 past. pick a team, pick a year, there are numerous instances. for some reason american racing is perceived to not have team orders,
i'm not sure why. maybe over the years the announcers of american racing have educated the listeners incorrectly?

IMO the difference here is one manufacturer one sponsor a true team. When those drivers were hired they knew there was a pecking order in place.
Same in Tour DeFrance bicycle racing the team is there to protect the main cyclist, they know that is their job.

 

[Cliff]

Kurt Johnson once took a dive for his dad, and when he came back down the return road, he had a sign "I still have a job".

 

[nick name]

I would have rather they left Troy's car in the trailer than throw the race, lie about not doing it and then give glory to God. After that interview, Erica can go into politics when she is done racing. If I was a competitor, the championship would feel tainted since I didn't win it on my own. People will remember this for a long time if she wins the championship. Look at how many years have passed and John diving for Robert still comes up regularly. The good side, Dallas Glenn has a lot of new fans!

The loudest reaction I've ever heard from a national event crowd (boos, catcalls, and worse) happened when George Bryce and Angelle came to the line during PSB eliminations at Topeka, took the mike, and explained they would not be making their pass against John Myers. I agree it is the honest thiing to do, but they caught a huge amount of anger from doing it. I never saw it happen again from any team.

And let's not talk about Chuck Harris and the Jim Yates team.

 

[Oz_NHRA_Fan]

Hate to see it but it’s inevitable and unstoppable. At least Troy sign posted his intentions and didn’t run the top tier BS that Erica did when asked about the team diving. So ironic too that she said Elite have something “you can’t buy” and yet that’s exactly what Troy does to be part of Elite. Glad Dallas got the job done in the final.

 

[mgty3whlr]

That's funny because Erica's dad bought her ride to run for Elite.

 

[camaro]

That's funny because Erica's dad bought her ride to run for Elite.

are u sure about that ? i thought i read years ago, freeman hired erica, after connolly took over her ride, with her previous team!

 

[Ted]

I remember a blatant dive by DSR in the 00s.
I think it was Seattle and afterward Don apologized and said it would never happen again.

I don't think I have seen a DSR car take a dive since but I have not watched every race.

 

[mikebcurve]

I remember a blatant dive by DSR in the 00s.
I think it was Seattle and afterward Don apologized and said it would never happen again.

I don't think I have seen a DSR car take a dive since but I have not watched every race.

Schumacher put Bazemore in the good lane when Scelzi had lane choice. I wouldn’t call it a blatant dive but it still wasn’t cool.

 

[Professional Fan]

Schumacher put Bazemore in the good lane when Scelzi had lane choice. I wouldn’t call it a blatant dive but it still wasn’t cool.

I remember that. Since I was a Scelzi fan I was not happy!

 

[BaldyLochs]

Sheee-it man…. I Remember in Florida I think it was, when Scott Kalitta ran his Dad in the final. Scott was leading in points and I thought sure his Dad would “overpower” the track at the step as usual, in order to push Scott up in points. But no friggin way man - it was an outright showdown. Mr. Kalitta took the W right out of Scott’s hands and loved every minute of it. No orders there.

 

[Bubba]

I have no problem with diving, but don't lie to the fans if you're doing it.

 

[Professional Fan]

The Elite sandbagging continued in Q 1 today. Butner, Robertson, Cuadra, Stanfield, Coughlin all ran poorly. They may have trouble lining up a #16 to go against Greg as Callahan and Prusiensky are possible candidates for #16. It essentially made Pro Stock unwatchable as all the KB cars ran well and all the Elite cars, except Erica, ran poorly. The examples people have mentioned above were all one off situations-Force/Hight, Connie/Scott, WJ/Kurt. I don't think we've ever seen 5 cars all sandbagging for two races in a row. Seems like how it would look if Steph Curry was going for the scoring title so to keep him from getting it, all five players on the other team just guarded Steph and didn't care who else scored or whether they won or not, as long as Steph didn't score. Seems like the message Erica is sending to all the little girls who want to be like her is it doesn't matter how you win, just that you win.

 

[Ted]

For some reason the qualifying games don't bother me as much, I think I'm willing to trade watching them compete for top of the field in exchange for more drama in the first round of eliminations.
Of course it could all end up rather silly when all the top cars end up qualified 6-11

 

[Dragracer]

The Freeman Brothers must be real proud of themselves. They obviously don't think Erica can win on her own. Hard to believe Jegs, as a business, supports this.
In Q1 today they showed their plan. This game playing always has the chance of backfiring on them.