Testing rumor..... (1 Viewer)

["Dr. Dirt"]

New rumor this morning (Tuesday), that Robert will be in a Worsham chassis for Vegas. ?
No word on Ashley yet.
Waiting for the "Rooman Report" to update us.

Excellent idea! Better yet, let him copy the Pluegar chassis they just bought back and have Grant make a couple dozen of those. Then, you'll see right away if the breakage is due to design, manufacturer or something else.

 

[big dg]

hey joe, I work on a team out here and the difference between the chassis from force to others are they are what we call a rigid car, when pleuger quit making chassis force turned to murf to build the same thing. murf did, however all the other teams are using what is called a slip tube car, so even though they are from the same company, they are built very different.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

It's been a long day . . . I just can't resist asking what kind of organic material the "compliant bushes" in JFR X member are made from! -

 

[Toejam]

hey joe, I work on a team out here and the difference between the chassis from force to others are they are what we call a rigid car, when pleuger quit making chassis force turned to murf to build the same thing. murf did, however all the other teams are using what is called a slip tube car, so even though they are from the same company, they are built very different.

Terry, is Force the only team Not running slip-tube chassis?

 

[Randy]

The failure was in the X brace under the seat not the main rails. The Force team has had this problem before and in this case the suspicion is that the fact that this car did not have the compliant bushes in the new cockpit X may have been a factor.
I am getting really pissed off with some people (on this board and others) that are jumping to erroneous conclusions based on rumour and personal opinions without actually talking to the people directly involved in this issue. Is seems that lots of people can't see the wood for the trees.
Over at DRO Mr Davis categorically states that the hardened tubing has an unacceptable elongation factor and that it needs to be at least 10%. Post accident testing on John Force's car revealed that the tubing used had a 12%elongation number. He also states that the Ford FEA analysis is the best and that is what should be used. His piece was written on the first of the month before the fix was developed but people are still referencing his statements as the gospel truth and using them as a basis of their irrational arguements.
The Ford engineers have been deeply involved in the whole chassis analysis since Eric's tragic death so that kind of puts a damper on that line of reasoning.
John Medlen has been the prime mover behind all of the research done on funny car frames since Eric's tragic death and if he is good with what the McKinney and Ford engineers have come up with I think that everyone out there should forget their prejudices and go with his outlook because he paid a higher price than anyone else.

Roo

Keith:

With all due respect that ship you are riding in is sinking while you insist on staying the course. Take a stroll at Vegas in a few weeks and report back.

I certainly hope you aren't referring to me when you say "I am getting really pissed off with some people (on this board and others) that are jumping to erroneous conclusions based on rumour and personal opinions without actually talking to the people directly involved in this issue. Is seems that lots of people can't see the wood for the trees."

The information you are posting suggests you are not as connected as you might think. Maybe to a chassis builder but that's where it ends now.

To quote you from another message board: "The JFR car broke the X bracing under the seat, not the frame rails. This has happened before on the Force cars, including (if my memory is correct) the Plueger frames."

Re: Plueger cars breaking X braces? News to me. I'll call BS on that one. In fact, I might even make some calls on that one, myself. I know of a couple guys that have quite a few runs on their frames which includes tossing a tire like Force did that about knocked the driver out as well as flipping in the sand. Those frames are still up and running.

My suggestion? Make a few calls and check the facts before responding. You might try some less myopic sources.

The poop has now hit the fan.

As another poster suggested, John does not want his daughter in on the bleeding edge of technology.

Stay tuned.

RG

 

[Nitrohelper]

let him copy the Plueger chassis

The Worsham design is based on a Steve car with a few minor changes, and the uprights that support the rearend mounts are at a different angle. Jack Wyatt has been running one for several years, hundreds of runs on the same car that Del ran first. Granted IHRA tracks aren't over prepped, but these current heavy tires shake anywhere, and thats a lot of "trailer miles" too!

 

[Big John]

Densham has a Steve car with over 300 passes on both kind of tracks.

 

[TJ]

R.G. from what the rumors are and other sites where racers like yourself get involved it seems like ROOMAN? is trying to do damage control as the word is out that Murf's cars are a little sketchy right now...his employees build nice cars but what goes around comes around...and that is a quote from some major chassis builders..I hope they can get this situation resolved w/out costing everyone else who has a horse in the parade 20k for upgrades..

Bobby...Victory and Paralex chassis are already copycats of Pluegers...or very close...

Steve P is getting the attention he deserves for his top-shelf craftsmanship...

 

[TJ]

Roo....X braces on Pluegers cars have not broken before...This is a Mckinney problem...Do not throw Steve under the trailer w/ this situation...
I am sure this problem will be resolved soon if they employ the 'right' people..

 

[Randy]

Densham has a Steve car with over 300 passes on both kind of tracks.

The other NHRA P&P fabrications car is said to have 400 passes on it including a pass or two where the tire delaminated and shook so hard the driver was about knocked out and a trip to the beach which wasn't pretty. After tipping it back over and sticking a fresh body on it, it made the next run.

 

[Terry]

This is a GREAT thread. I'm really interested in what everyone has to say and am l learning quite a bit. A question--I've heard several prominent chassis builders and their products mentioned here. I could be wrong, but I believe Scott Kalitta's FC employs an Attack chassis and they don't seem to have had any chassis problems. Anyone out there have any info on the Attack chassis and how it may be different from the Murf, Plueger, etc chassis being used? Just curious.

 

[Big John]

All the cars a few years back had the x-brace like the "FIX" but the cars were spiting them out. They would break on one or two passes, They stoped putting them in and added the one under the seat. I know Al Hoffman cut the ones out of his car.

 

[Keith Burgan]

Keith:

With all due respect that ship you are riding in is sinking while you insist on staying the course. Take a stroll at Vegas in a few weeks and report back.

I certainly hope you aren't referring to me when you say "I am getting really pissed off with some people (on this board and others) that are jumping to erroneous conclusions based on rumour and personal opinions without actually talking to the people directly involved in this issue. Is seems that lots of people can't see the wood for the trees."

The information you are posting suggests you are not as connected as you might think. Maybe to a chassis builder but that's where it ends now.

To quote you from another message board: "The JFR car broke the X bracing under the seat, not the frame rails. This has happened before on the Force cars, including (if my memory is correct) the Plueger frames."

Re: Plueger cars breaking X braces? News to me. I'll call BS on that one. In fact, I might even make some calls on that one, myself. I know of a couple guys that have quite a few runs on their frames which includes tossing a tire like Force did that about knocked the driver out as well as flipping in the sand. Those frames are still up and running.

My suggestion? Make a few calls and check the facts before responding. You might try some less myopic sources.

The poop has now hit the fan.

As another poster suggested, John does not want his daughter in on the bleeding edge of technology.

Stay tuned.

RG

Randy,
no I was not referring to you at the time but that may change in light of the above post. Less than an hour ago I was on the phone with a senior member of JFR and he told me that breaking the X or K under the seat is not an unusual occurrence on their cars and that it happened when they ran Steve's chassis as well. None of these cars are bulletproof and prior to Eric's deal a lot of stuff got fixed between events (or even runs) without the great unwashed knowing or caring about it. Robert's car broke the wheelie bar at the step and did not get up on the tire. With the tire wadded up it shook and tore a 3/4" 4130 tube that attaches to the anti rotation bracket on the rear end housing.
I think that my sources are fairly credible as we do work for JFR, the Pedregon's, KBR, Dexter Tuttle/JR Todd, Cory Mac, and Densham with all but Densham based here in Brownsburg where we see a lot of the crew guys when they are not on the road. Would you like me to give you the cell phone numbers for Dickie Venables, Jimmy Walsh, Kevin Poynter, Tony Shortall, Ed Boytim or even Guido so that you can confirm any of this statement?

I also know quite a few teams that run either Steve or Murf's frames and do not have any problems. This problem has been confined to the JFR cars and the consensus is leaning towards that fact that they make more power than anyone else out there.

Roo

 

[farmje]

I also know quite a few teams that run either Steve or Murf's frames and do not have any problems. This problem has been confined to the JFR cars and the consensus is leaning towards that fact that they make more power than anyone else out there.

Roo

That's a great answer right there, Roo-man. I think the fact that JFR has 15 championships (16 after this year) proves that statement true.

Here's my question: Is JFR worried about this chassis issue? Or is it just "commonplace"?

Thanks, Roo.

 

[67 Cuda]

This problem has been confined to the JFR cars and the consensus is leaning towards that fact that they make more power than anyone else out there.

Roo

Could it also have to do with the downforce they are creating stressing the chassis more? I would think that a Funny Car chassis with the amount of downforce being created would be arching the chassis like you can see at the top end on a Top Fuel dragster but since the wheelbase is shorter the loading would be greater. Maybe people need to start looking at reducing the rear wing/shelf areas?

 

[Bobby]

Bill Elliot ran 212 mph for a qualifying average in 1988 at Daytona. Now 188 gets the pole. Has that hurt nascar over the last 20 years? Obviously not.

I think restrictor plate racing is boring, lacks balls, and just generally sucks.
Obviously the majority of nascar fans dont' care about that, but I don't think drag racing fans will put up with gelded drag racing.

That being said, having the best runs be 300-305 would not significantly alter the show we see. The problem with restrictor plate racing is not the lack of speed, but the lack of the ability to pass without a freaking 'dancing partner'.(Blame DW for that term)

Drag racing would not have that problem. The people in power who want to maintain the status quo for their own personal gain are the problem. It's past time for a major change. We're lucky John didn't follow in Dale's footsteps.
Don't make that have to happen before things change, like Nascar did with it's lack of enforcing the head and neck restraints. You know what I'm saying.
John talks about the car of tomorrow. He can't build it overnight. But if I was him, I wouldn't drive again until that car was built.

 

[__]

Bill Elliot ran 212 mph for a qualifying average in 1988 at Daytona. Now 188 gets the pole. Has that hurt nascar over the last 20 years? Obviously not.

Very minor thing. Bill went 210mph at Daytona and 212mph at Talladega, both in 1987.

 

[stanman]

... but I don't think drag racing fans will put up with gelded drag racing. ...

Bob,

I don't think "fans" give a rats butt about what E.T. or MPH the cars actually run. They are there for the experience... the sights, the sounds, meet the Pros, gets some autographs and souveniors. As long as there are nitro cars to "pound the ground" it won't matter what the performance levels are... for that matter, shorten the tracks to 1000 feet. That would stop a lot of the regular carnage!

 

[Just Paul]

Bob,

I don't think "fans" give a rats butt about what E.T. or MPH the cars actually run.

I have to call bull sh!t on that one.

I have seen several national record runs, and below national record runs, and the place has gone crazy every time. Going back to when Dixon ran the first 4.40 or when Force ran 323 at E-Town which I both saw, Magic monents.

My favorite pass ever, is the 1997 Winston Finals top fuel final round-the last run of the year, Amato (Prock)vs. Scelzi (AJ) the two baddest cars around at the time. It was a repeat of the 1997 Winters where they both smoked the tires. Here they are, same cars, same track, same lanes, Pomona, dark- awesome! Scelzi goes about 60 feet and smokes the tires. Amato blasts to a 4.55 (quickest ever) and 320 (only the 3rd ever pass over 320) WOW! Would that have the same meaning to me if Joe ran 4.75 instead? no way. Cool, but it would not make it my most memorable moment. The numbers put the WOW factor on that one.

For me, when I am at the track, espically Joliet, Pomona, or Vegas, and the conditions are right for records, it makes that session a little more special to me.

Just my .02

 

[stanman]

Paul,

The average fan couldn't even tell you what the national records are, let alone who holds them.