Testing rumor..... (1 Viewer)

[Ron]

My humble opinion to slow down the cars and help prevent tire failures would be to reduce the size of the wing on the rear of FC and TF cars. Keep the rev limiter, 2 pumps and same size blower. With the reduced wing, less fuel and energy in motor equals less carnage to engine parts. A win win equation for all concerned!
What do ya think?

The reason they have these big wings/spoilers is to create down force to try and maintain some semblance of traction down track. Making the wing smaller might slow them down but the reason they would slow down would be excessive tire spin. This just creates more problems for the tire provider.

In my opinion the only way to for certain slow the cars is to mandate a maximum size fuel pump/pumps along with a max pulley ratio. Ultimately no matter what engine size you have, boost level etc. the horsepower is ultimately how much fuel you can efficiently burn. Limit the fuel mass and you limit the power.

 

[sdwarf36]

I dont have enough "mater cred" to be a full on keyboard crewchief-but.....
back half numbers havent gone up nearly as much as front half over the last few years. (288mph in 660ft??) What stresses the tire (and chassis )more-the acceleration from 0 to 280 plus in 3 seconds --or the centrifical forces up at 300 for 2 seconds?

 

[Toejam]

Gene Snows blowout was Sonoma in 89, might be 90!
Mike

Mike, Snow had a First round Tire Blowout agains't Prudhomme at Dallas in '93!

 

[Nemo]

I wonder how they would feel if you took some wing and fuel pump away, but let them use traction control. That way the Et's and Speeds would be similar but the pressure on the tires would be less, and should be really close racing as well. I would miss the peddling every now and then but it would also get rid of some "track prep" gripes.

 

[Professor Dave]

What stresses the tire (and chassis )more-the acceleration from 0 to 280 plus in 3 seconds --or the centrifical forces up at 300 for 2 seconds?

My Ph.D is in economics, not in engineering or physics, so I don't know the answer to this question. But it strikes me that it might be a a good one. It also strikes me that those of us aren't chassis builders or engineers ought to stick to questions, because we probably don't have the answers. And didn't Alan Reinhart say something about rumors a while back?

 

[MM]

this whole situation reminds me of how everyone wanted to crucify Bill Simpson when it was rumored that the safety belts may have ripped in the crash that killed Dale Earnhardt......let's just wait and see huh?? i have every confidence in JFR and in Murf's abilities as well as John Medlen's input into making these cars safer, that they will suceed...

and P.S.....be careful about assuming things since the person who prolly knows the most about what happend (you know the guy who was in the seat) is a regular here

 

[__]

I'm curious if the internet messageboards were around back in the day what kind of panic we would be seeing when Jim Nichol's car broke in half agains't Prudhomme at Indy? Or when Shirley had her major crash in Montreal? Or when Gene Snow had his Blowout at Dallas in '93? Or when Scott Kalitta had a blowout at Sonoma and almost went over the Guardrail in '96? Or when KB had his blowout at Pomona when his car broke in half?

We're going to Pussy this sport down so much that '330 ft racing will rule the day.

Is Tony Pedregon a "pussy" for saying he wants F/C slowed down?

 

[vegasnitro]

Is Tony Pedregon a "pussy" for saying he wants F/C slowed down?

Not in my book.

TPed is a champion, son of a racer, brother of a champion, there isn't much TPed does not know about this game, not to mention he was at JFR for a LONG time and has a level of insight as to what is going on that many of us can't comprehend. When TPed says he had "the talk" with his wife and got the life insurance up to date .... the level of candor in that interview is something that is not common in the modern racing world, and I hope the right people are listening.

 

[.]

New rumor this morning (Tuesday), that Robert will be in a Worsham chassis for Vegas. ?
No word on Ashley yet.
Waiting for the "Rooman Report" to update us.

Doesn't somebody on their team build the frames?

edit - just did a Google search and found it's Grant Downing.

 

[none]

I know this doesn't fit in with where this particular thread is right now but has anyone heard that the test sessions for next year(Vegas and Arizona) are rapidly disappearing due to fear of cold(Cool) weather, tire issues and 90% ??

Just wondering about testing rumors.......

 

[Toejam]

I know this doesn't fit in with where this particular thread is right now but has anyone heard that the test sessions for next year(Vegas and Arizona) are rapidly disappearing due to fear of cold(Cool) weather, tire issues and 90% ??

Just wondering about testing rumors.......

Mel, I've been to testing at Fireturd a few times and it's NOT cold! It's been in the 70's before. But my guess is these guys will need plenty of laps to dial in 90% again.

 

[afx421]

im just glad robert is ok, i feel so bad for all of jfr, i mean think about john ashley and robert and zippy mentally now, climbing into those cars having to worry about a chassis failure every pass. it was scary as hell listining to john in his bedsaide interview sunday talking about the catastrophic plan. if tony ped says slow them down, who the hell are we to disagree with that. hes a champion driver who is in these cars, he know more than all of us put together. so i say slow them down too, less speed, less g force= less stress on these chassis and tires.

 

[none]

Mel, I've been to testing at Fireturd a few times and it's NOT cold! It's been in the 70's before. But my guess is these guys will need plenty of laps to dial in 90% again.

I agree with you 100%, at a time the teams NEED to test..............but I heard that they(track owners?) are backing off on some of the usual testing (pre season)......no second Vegas or at all etc.
I hope it is untrue

 

[BlueStangGT]

I know this doesn't fit in with where this particular thread is right now but has anyone heard that the test sessions for next year(Vegas and Arizona) are rapidly disappearing due to fear of cold(Cool) weather....

Interesting. You'd think that with the global warming crisis this wouldn't be an issue, especially in Arizona. Go figure.

 

[Brian]

Here are the low ets of each round in funny car
1st 4.86, 2nd 4.91, 3rd 4.95, Final 4.95
7 of the 15 total races were competitive side-by-side affairs. Less than half. Of those 7, only 1 race had side-by-side 80's
Whoever was saying don't slow the cars down because they don't want to watch 80's and 90's. Too late.

 

[Rexfiles]

Here are the low ets of each round in funny car
1st 4.86, 2nd 4.91, 3rd 4.95, Final 4.95
7 of the 15 total races were competitive side-by-side affairs. Less than half. Of those 7, only 1 race had side-by-side 80's
Whoever was saying don't slow the cars down because they don't want to watch 80's and 90's. Too late.

UMMMMMMMmmmmmmmmm.....................Can you say "95 degrees, humid, track temp 116 degrees."

Actually pretty damned good for those conditions............

Care to wager how far a .95 will get you at Vegas or Pomona???? ....("Too late")

REX

 

[Angus]

Is Tony Pedregon a "pussy" for saying he wants F/C slowed down?

Wasn't Tony P. the driver of Eric's car before Eric?

I think if he has something to say, people should listen.

 

[joe fuchita]

Grant Downing builds the chasis for Del Worsham.

 

[john348]

The failure was in the X brace under the seat not the main rails. The Force team has had this problem before and in this case the suspicion is that the fact that this car did not have the compliant bushes in the new cockpit X may have been a factor.
I am getting really pissed off with some people (on this board and others) that are jumping to erroneous conclusions based on rumour and personal opinions without actually talking to the people directly involved in this issue. Is seems that lots of people can't see the wood for the trees.
Over at DRO Mr Davis categorically states that the hardened tubing has an unacceptable elongation factor and that it needs to be at least 10%. Post accident testing on John Force's car revealed that the tubing used had a 12%elongation number. He also states that the Ford FEA analysis is the best and that is what should be used. His piece was written on the first of the month before the fix was developed but people are still referencing his statements as the gospel truth and using them as a basis of their irrational arguements.
The Ford engineers have been deeply involved in the whole chassis analysis since Eric's tragic death so that kind of puts a damper on that line of reasoning.
John Medlen has been the prime mover behind all of the research done on funny car frames since Eric's tragic death and if he is good with what the McKinney and Ford engineers have come up with I think that everyone out there should forget their prejudices and go with his outlook because he paid a higher price than anyone else.

Roo

Keith/Roo

if you guys are so sure the heat treating is not the cause
why not do some old school real time testing
build 2 exact cars
1 = ht'd the way you want them
1 = 100 % 4130n no ht, old way
go test them and see what happens

if they both break we have a problem and they need parked

 

[Keith Burgan]

Keith/Roo

if you guys are so sure the heat treating is not the cause
why not do some old school real time testing
build 2 exact cars
1 = ht'd the way you want them
1 = 100 % 4130n no ht, old way
go test them and see what happens

if they both break we have a problem and they need parked

John,
read this part of my post again and think about it.

"John Medlen has been the prime mover behind all of the research done on funny car frames since Eric's tragic death and if he is good with what the McKinney and Ford engineers have come up with I think that everyone out there should forget their prejudices and go with his outlook because he paid a higher price than anyone else."

The last thing that John M is going to do is send one of the Force team out in something that is even close to being marginal safety wise.
Then read the part about the area that failed and note that it was not constructed of heat treated tubing. You should also note that Tony Pedregon's recently retired chassis has around 125 laps on it, including some tire shakers and it was still good enough to put him in the winner's circle at Dallas.

Roo