Testing rumor..... (1 Viewer)

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I can't believe nobody's curious why this stuff's only happening to the Force cars? Not one of the other Top ten cars have experienced any Chassis failure to speak of this year.

Joe, go back and read post number 10 from Randy Goodwin. He answered your question the first time you asked it in this thread.

Yes, others have had issues. All from the same manufacturer from what I have been told.

I don't know which teams have had problems but he must know something we don't.

 

[mike]

This makes me so sick I want to cry. We lost Eric, could have lost John, and now this. Slow these cars down before we lose or cripple somebody else. I always chuckled at people that talked about slowing the cars in the past, but now I guess I'm one of them. We've got two events left and I think something can be done easily as a temporary fix. Take one Mag off, make them run smaller tires,(can't put as much power on the ground with a smaller footprint), run a smaller pump; something. This is a very serious problem and it is nothing to take lighty.

Dave

This Chassis problem has nothing to do with the speed of the cars. Get over the slowing them done BS! You could have this problem at friggin 200MPH When was the last time you saw a TF or FC (bar John's freak accident) crash? Be realisitc Dave, the changes you suggest can't be made over night! And I for one would lose interest very quickly if the times dropped back to 4.9s at 290/300

Glad Robert is safe and sound.

 

[ProStockJunkie]

Did the rumor say if Robert was OK?

He's ok thankfully. Do I hear Plueger?

 

[hellfirejim]

The thought process here is really puzzling to me. There are all these calls to slow the cars when in fact the issues have been at all speed from slow to fast. It would lead one to logically think that speed was not the issue.

Now here is something to think about. You have a heat treated pipe that is not as "flexable" welded to a non-heat treated pipe that is more "flexable". Introduce harmonics and vibration and which part is going to fail and which part has the ability to absorb this vibration and harmonics by being able to flex with the vibration and harmonics?

Or consider you have a chassis that does flex by the nature of the non-heat treated tubing all around a stiff heat treated pipe. Where do you think the center of force is going to be located? What section is going to move and give with the vibration and harmonics and which section is going to try and fight it?

BTW: By flex I don't mean like a wet noodle, just your normal torsional twist associated with all chassis.

Just one man's opinon.

jim

ps: Just wanted to add that I am glad Robert is ok.

 

[Keith Burgan]

The failure was in the X brace under the seat not the main rails. The Force team has had this problem before and in this case the suspicion is that the fact that this car did not have the compliant bushes in the new cockpit X may have been a factor.
I am getting really pissed off with some people (on this board and others) that are jumping to erroneous conclusions based on rumour and personal opinions without actually talking to the people directly involved in this issue. Is seems that lots of people can't see the wood for the trees.
Over at DRO Mr Davis categorically states that the hardened tubing has an unacceptable elongation factor and that it needs to be at least 10%. Post accident testing on John Force's car revealed that the tubing used had a 12%elongation number. He also states that the Ford FEA analysis is the best and that is what should be used. His piece was written on the first of the month before the fix was developed but people are still referencing his statements as the gospel truth and using them as a basis of their irrational arguements.
The Ford engineers have been deeply involved in the whole chassis analysis since Eric's tragic death so that kind of puts a damper on that line of reasoning.
John Medlen has been the prime mover behind all of the research done on funny car frames since Eric's tragic death and if he is good with what the McKinney and Ford engineers have come up with I think that everyone out there should forget their prejudices and go with his outlook because he paid a higher price than anyone else.

Roo

 

[onfire]

'Nuff said, Rooman!!!

Late..................Mitch

 

[Paul]

John Medlen has been the prime mover behind all of the research done on funny car frames since Eric's tragic death and if he is good with what the McKinney and Ford engineers have come up with I think that everyone out there should forget their prejudices and go with his outlook because he paid a higher price than anyone else.

Roo

Well put!!

 

[Just Paul]

Thanks Keith

 

[Toejam]

Joe, go back and read post number 10 from Randy Goodwin. He answered your question the first time you asked it in this thread.



I don't know which teams have had problems but he must know something we don't.

I still can't believe others have had problems and we haven't heard about it. This whole deal has me thinking what is JFR doing to their cars that others aren't? But once again, some are in panic mode over this. One team's having issues with chassis so now we have to re-invent the sport.

 

[Jet]

This Chassis problem has nothing to do with the speed of the cars. Get over the slowing them done BS! You could have this problem at friggin 200MPH When was the last time you saw a TF or FC (bar John's freak accident) crash? Be realisitc Dave, the changes you suggest can't be made over night! And I for one would lose interest very quickly if the times dropped back to 4.9s at 290/300

Glad Robert is safe and sound.

Seriously, you think you , I or anyone else can tell the difference between a 4.90 run and a 4.80 run? How from anywhere on the grounds can you see the difference between a 299 and a 320 run? Lets face it, our senses can't process information that fast. The only way that you can tell the difference is if a car is going 320 and the one in the next lane is going 290. Put them all at the same speed and the racing will be just as exciting.

One pump, one mag, no limiter and 100% sure seems like it would be a lot of fun and a whole lot safer.

 

[Toejam]

Seriously, you think you , I or anyone else can tell the difference between a 4.90 run and a 4.80 run? How from anywhere on the grounds can you see the difference between a 299 and a 320 run? Lets face it, our senses can't process information that fast. The only way that you can tell the difference is if a car is going 320 and the one in the next lane is going 290. Put them all at the same speed and the racing will be just as exciting.

One pump, one mag, no limiter and 100% sure seems like it would be a lot of fun and a whole lot safer.

I'm curious if the internet messageboards were around back in the day what kind of panic we would be seeing when Jim Nichol's car broke in half agains't Prudhomme at Indy? Or when Shirley had her major crash in Montreal? Or when Gene Snow had his Blowout at Dallas in '93? Or when Scott Kalitta had a blowout at Sonoma and almost went over the Guardrail in '96? Or when KB had his blowout at Pomona when his car broke in half?

We're going to Pussy this sport down so much that '330 ft racing will rule the day.

 

[mike]

I'm curious if the internet messageboards were around back in the day what kind of panic we would be seeing when Jim Nichol's car broke in half agains't Prudhomme at Indy? Or when Shirley had her major crash in Montreal? Or when Gene Snow had his Blowout at Dallas in '93? Or when Scott Kalitta had a blowout at Sonoma and almost went over the Guardrail in '96? Or when KB had his blowout at Pomona when his car broke in half?

We're going to Pussy this sport down so much that '330 ft racing will rule the day.

Gene Snows blowout was Sonoma in 89, might be 90! Well the one I remember anyway. But on to the last bit, if they pussy this sport down, I'm just going to go to div races and watch TA. I wouldn't go to see slow runs by fuel cars, I go to see the envelope pushed! And Jet I can tell the difference in times, it's clear as day when a car is hauling! For an example (Non fuel) Frank Manzo at Indy, I could tell I was going to see a .40 pop up, you know when a run is quick! If you can't tell, then maybe my mind takes things in differently! People are becoming real paronoid these days, Like Joe said if we had msg boards back in the day I wonder if people would go up in arms when Johnny West had his big bang up, or Al Hoffman in GNV, or when Jerry Caramito lost his spill plates....

I think some people are forgetting what the true essence of Drag Racing is all about

Yes I want the racers to be safe, but let's look at some of these deals, Blaine would probably be with us today if the track had concrete barriers in the top end, Darrell if they had better protection around the cages, it still freaks me out looking at pics of the cages being so open behind the driver. Jimmy Nix if the cages were built better back then, he may have had better protection when he hit the pole. Right now besides the sad passing of Eric, which imo was a real freak accident these cars are the safest they have ever been. Look at John, through the changes they made, he didn't suffer any head injuries. Where his car broke was freak! The good year tyre is probably the best it's been, I really can't recall many blowouts in the past two seasons. I can count more then a dozen from 93 alone! Flame at me, I have my opinions you all have your's. Hopefully someone can see what some of us are trying to say.

And PS Rooman, thanks for coming on here, your words are always good to read. I could Hijack this thread by asking you a question about a certain something we were talking about in indy but I'll PM you about that.

Mike

 

[Just Paul]

Gene Snows blowout was Sonoma in 89, might be 90!
Mike

Aside from when he had the crash in Sonoma in 89, (something fell of the car and punctured a tire) He also had a bad one in Dallas--by memory, he blew a tire in the lights, the car took a hard left into the wall almost head on and the car spun back around and headed back to the right wall, but it stopped before he hit it. The front of the car was pretty much gone in front of the footbox. He got out ok.

Or when KB had his blowout at Pomona when his car broke in half?

Man, that was a bad one. It's too bad they didn't learn about guardrail openings with that crash, before Al and Blaine had to deal with them.
Better Yet, when Kalitta had the wing come down in Houston 90 and he hit the wall opening something fierce. He was messed up, but could of been much worse.

 

[JP1Special]

According to Bill Miller, Force bought one of his own Plueger cars back from Todd Paton that was still new and never run.

Yes, others have had issues. All from the same manufacturer from what I have been told.

That's the only way you're going to get a new Plueger chassis at this point. Since Steve's been nostalgia racing with Bucky and the only new chassis I've seen in his shop was one for Big Jim back in February and he really wasn't in a rush to finish that one. Should be interesting though to see how many people come see him this weekend at the CHRR. I'll be at his shop in a few weeks and look foward to talking with him about what he thinks of all this and what he would do.

 

[Nemo]

Although the chassis thing needs to be worked out (improved foot box in the FC's and heat treated vs non) it seems that tires are constantly the unchanging variable. Look back over the last 5 years and most of the nasty crashes (TF and FC) have been from chunking or delamination of tires. Whether it's knocking wings off dragsters or vibration FC's to pieces they just keep failing. I know all about Goodyear and the big money looser TF racing is, but this spec tire is not working out. No competition for tire technology and no real profit margin = crappy tires. The only thing keeping Goodyear honest is the worry of lawsuits and most the racing community wouldn't go there either. Open it up over the off season, let them try to build a bigger mouse trap, my guess is Hoosier, M/T, someone will make a better tire or even Goodyear. If a team is chunking out the GY then maybe they'll switch to a different brand that another team is having success with. Moto-GP bikes run on different tires, according to their people they make no money on those tires either....but they do on the street and street/strip guys that shell out money after every track day on them. If you ARE going to go with a spec tire than subsidize Goodyear or whomever and make sure the tires are done RIGHT. Don't let the tail wag the dog (Goodyear telling the team and NHRA they'll just have to slow down), MAKE them do it right. Even if the teams end up subsidizing (which HD should be anyway, it's there "show"), it would still be cheaper then replacing bodies, chassis, wings, and occasionaly drivers every time they have a "failure". I Garantee that if MSD was having Mag failures every couple of runs and blowing up motors and hurting drivers it would not take long for every team to dump their product and move onto something else.......of course MSD would not tell them to "slow down" to fix the problem, they would find the cause and make it right.

 

[Bullet]

Better Yet, when Kalitta had the wing come down in Houston 90 and he hit the wall opening something fierce. He was messed up, but could of been much worse.

He was VERY lucky to not be more seriously injured in that crash. That was a bad one.

 

[jimbo]

My humble opinion to slow down the cars and help prevent tire failures would be to reduce the size of the wing on the rear of FC and TF cars. Keep the rev limiter, 2 pumps and same size blower. With the reduced wing, less fuel and energy in motor equals less carnage to engine parts. A win win equation for all concerned!
What do ya think?

 

[Nitrohelper]

New rumor this morning (Tuesday), that Robert will be in a Worsham chassis for Vegas. ?
No word on Ashley yet.
Waiting for the "Rooman Report" to update us.

 

[Rajunz]

My humble opinion to slow down the cars and help prevent tire failures would be to reduce the size of the wing on the rear of FC and TF cars. Keep the rev limiter, 2 pumps and same size blower. With the reduced wing, less fuel and energy in motor equals less carnage to engine parts. A win win equation for all concerned!
What do ya think?

That was exactly what I had in mind. The main thing that it would accomplish is less down force on a tire that is already running on the ragged edge of it's design parameters.

.....................Don't let the tail wag the dog (Goodyear telling the team and NHRA they'll just have to slow down), MAKE them do it right.................

Assuming that a better tire can be made that will take what they're throwing at it? Has fuel tire design already been exceeded?

 

[davey]

That's the only way you're going to get a new Plueger chassis at this point. Since Steve's been nostalgia racing with Bucky and the only new chassis I've seen in his shop was one for Big Jim back in February and he really wasn't in a rush to finish that one. Should be interesting though to see how many people come see him this weekend at the CHRR. I'll be at his shop in a few weeks and look foward to talking with him about what he thinks of all this and what he would do.

Someone on another board who knows him says he is done talking about it.