Simple solution... (1 Viewer)

[Dave]

I can't agree with giving the win to the loser.

I still have the same question I asked yesterday. What happens if it is in the final round? The contact rule is in affect on every run as it is now, hit the wall before the finish line in the finals and you lose. Are you going to take away an event win and possibly a championship if someone bends the headers or knocks off a couple of decals after they cross the finish line? I think that is going to be a hard sell.

What happens if you go in the sand? Can that hurt the chassis? If so, do we then have the rule cover that also? If you go in the sand because your chutes don't deploy, you lost control of your vehicle just as you did if you hit the wall because a tire blew or some component broke.

I have no problem with not letting them run the car after contact, but I can't see taking away a round win, event win, or possibly the championship.

 

[johnny]

I can't agree with giving the win to the loser.

I still have the same question I asked yesterday. What happens if it is in the final round? The contact rule is in affect on every run as it is now, hit the wall before the finish line in the finals and you lose. Are you going to take away an event win and possibly a championship if someone bends the headers or knocks off a couple of decals after they cross the finish line? I think that is going to be a hard sell.

What happens if you go in the sand? Can that hurt the chassis? If so, do we then have the rule cover that also? If you go in the sand because your chutes don't deploy, you lost control of your vehicle just as you did if you hit the wall because a tire blew or some component broke.

I have no problem with not letting them run the car after contact, but I can't see taking away a round win, event win, or possibly the championship.

My opinion, if you touch, you're out. Regardless of round or circumstance.

The sand generally has a different effect on a car than the walls eh?
If you hit the sand like Del, I'd guess you probably aren't as likely to make the next round as someone who goes two cars deep. Sand is more like a fire, a careful evaluation, after an incident, should suffice.

 

[FuelCarBuilder]

Some may remember at St.Louis last year when Cory Mac lost a header tube and cut the tire which sent him on a ride, and he only brushed the left side guardwall in qualifying... They thrashed all night to put the chassis back together but found that it was not straight and they were uncomforable with running it, and they had a spare up in the rafters, but had just come off their Bristol incident and were taking no chances... The TEAM decided not to run the car, not NHRA...

Ray, as I understood it, the chassis they had in the trailer had frame rails in the back 1/2 that were too thin. That had already been determined at some point earlier by NHRA tech. They knew they couldn't bring that car out regardless until the rails had been replaced. So it was a moot point. Joe Barszch tried to repair the damaged car with no luck. It's REALLY hard to replace main rails in the field. bOb

 

[afx421]

well thought out post randy, but i like the 2nd chassis idea! but i still have to say if it were another big f/c team out there it wouldnt be as big a deal as it is on here. go with the 2nd chassis idea, throwing out a racer after he or she just scrapes the wall or hiots it hard after the traps is not fair. dropping cylinders, wind ect ect . a lot can add up to hitting the wall hard or easy.

 

[cp]

why would you disqualify somebody after the run?
thats just plain stupid.
you could scratch a decal in the pits, and you could scratch a header on the way to or from the pits.
i say let the drivers do what they want.
i would let be their choice if they want to run it or not!

 

[T.Smith]

Nice one Randy....pretty simple solution, that's just what this sport needs more of.

The 2nd chassis deal just opens up a serious a can of worms. Rule enforcement, costs, testing and a change in tuning philosophy's would be my major reasons of why not to do it. You can't the inmates run the asylum all the time.

If fans are worried about seeing a single...insert the quickest loser or declare the competitor in the other lane the winner.

...and if fans are so concerned about a single, then where is the outcry about the "Paul Smith Rule"?

If you went back to the times when Force was 1st round cannon fodder for Snake, Beadle, Billy Meyer, Oswald or Bernstein, he'd be going ape sh*t if one of them wanted to drag out another chassis after a crash in eliminations.

If this were Wilkerson, Wyatt, Creasy or Bode, this wouldn't even be a discussion.

 

[r2]

Cody
You can't do it little brother...
The opponet in the other lane will bitch like I do at sis for leaving her shoes in the path to my ice cream... And if I stub a toe, I'm not vewy happy...

That will never happen... There is enough clunckers running in some classes as is...

BOB- You may be right about that...
I don't feel like making a call to find out, but you are probably right... I know it was headed back to Hadman for some reason...

 

[Sandy]

Great Idea - then there is no question.

 

[Joker]

I dont mind the "hit the wall and your out" I can live with that even though I still dont see a problem with letting them use a backup either but anyways.

However, I dont agree with the scenario with Kalitta moving on after he was already beat. Dont think so, I would rather see a single then see a loser come back. It wouldnt be right if they came back and beat someone else.

 

[Randy]

The racer who gets into the wall is disqualified and is the loser. Just like any other infraction. So that would make Kalitta the winner...not the loser. There would be no case for discussion.

I think about all the other classes in drag racing. What if Greg Anderson decided to let it smack the wall. Does he roll out Jason's car just because Jason lost first round and the car is available? I doubt that would set too well with Jim Yates or anyone else. What if Angel jumped off the bike and let it hit the wall. Should Craig Treble line up next round against her on another one of the fleet of bikes they have lined up in the trailer? Doesn't happen in any other form of motorsports. Once the boat has sunk, it's sunk.

I don't think smacking the wall anywhere on the track should be rewarded, but that's just my opinion. Drag races don't start at the green and end at the stripe. They start on the first day of tech and end when the car is loaded in the trailer. If you can't make the run without hitting stuff, then you shouldn't be the winner. Whether it's the drivers fault or mechanical failure, a part of winning in drag racing should require maintaining control of your equipment.

RG

PS, Names mentioned were to illustrate a fictional point only. They had nothing to do with this discussion.

 

[FC Girl]

I agree 100% with you Randy. 1st or worse, no matter what class is involved. That's safety.

Randy, was there any discussion about lane crossing after the finish line before the cars are obviously going the correct speed to exit?

As for the 2nd or 3rd chassis, don't agree with that option at all.

It's not an option for every class, so what is best for the masses, IMO - is what is best for all drag racing.

 

[hellfirejim]

I like the idea and it reminds me of the old break rule. If your opponent can not make it back due to any problem then you are re-instated. Just that simple. Not sure why it was dropped but I am sure somebody knows....

If you hit the walls regardless of where you are out. What can be simpler than that. A rule is a rule applied equally to everybody. if you know in advance what the rule is and you choose to run then you have agreeded to abide by those rules.

jim

 

[knightrider]

If you want to go with the 2nd frame ready, what"s next? Looked like the car jfr pulled from the trailer was complete except for motor. So we just pull the 2nd car out and put a new bullet in it?

 

[none]

And give up lane choice.........sure, why not

 

[handsome]

good one randy. the biggest problem with teams like Force is no en to the pocket.

 

[Dave]

My opinion, if you touch, you're out. Regardless of round or circumstance.

The sand generally has a different effect on a car than the walls eh?
If you hit the sand like Del, I'd guess you probably aren't as likely to make the next round as someone who goes two cars deep. Sand is more like a fire, a careful evaluation, after an incident, should suffice.

The reason I brought up the sand was because Randy talks about not having the vehicle under control, even if it is mechanical failure. If you go in the sand, your vehicle is not under control, just like when you hit the wall or cross the center line after the stripe.

If you overturn the race based on not being able to keep the vehicle under control, going in the sand and crossing the center line have to be considered.

If you toss the car out for safety reasons, you have no basis for overturning the results. Just let the next opponent have a bye.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on when the race is over. I still believe it's over when you cross the finish line, just like it is in NASCAR, IRL, USAC, soap box derby, pinewood derby, 100 yard dash, Kentucky Derby or any other obscure form of racing you can think of. The event may not be over, but that particular race is.

 

[NHRADeuce]

I agree with a DQ if the car hits the wall anywhere on the track. I don't agree with giving the win to the other car though. Let the winner get the round win and the points, but don't let them run the car next round. Next guy gets a single, simple as that.

If your opponent can not make it back due to any problem then you are re-instated. Just that simple. Not sure why it was dropped but I am sure somebody knows

Simple reason why this isn't done anymore - Whit Bazemore has mechanical problems in the first round at Indy, his opponent Arley Lango goes to the next round. Next thing you know, Arley has mysterious engine trouble and Whit is back in, keeping him in the top 8 for the Chase. Unlike Nascar, NHRA doesn't let teams blatantly buy their way back in.

 

[Ranger]

Dave, I agree with most everything you say except when the race is over. The drag race is over at the end of the day after 4 runs, looking at the big picture. The Ky Derby is finished after the horse crosses the finish line once. The horse doesn't have to go back and rest for 75 min and run again. Any rule that DQ's a car is brutal to a team but can a line be drawn between frame damaging contact vs. header pipe scrapes? Too much politics involved for that. I think if the rule is to be made it will be a hard fast rule on contact. As for the sand box? A wreck like Del's? May be merit for including the box also. As for the tracks are providing a sufficient shutdown length. That will mean dollars to renovate so I don't think sand box will be included.

 

[TAFC 5 81]

I am not against the backup chassis, however; I am OK with the "hit the wall your parked" idea. You still get the win and points, and that would eliminate any controversy if it happened in a final. If this leads to "too many singles", then other options can be looked at. Between loss of traction and dropped cylinders, FCs move around like roaches on a hot frying pan, so contact with the wall is always near.

 

[Dave]

......The drag race is over at the end of the day after 4 runs, looking at the big picture. The Ky Derby is finished after the horse crosses the finish line once. The horse doesn't have to go back and rest for 75 min and run again....

How about USAC? They have heats prior to the main event. Those cars do have to come back and race the same day. If you win a heat, or come in the top part of the field, you move on the the main feature. At Daytona and Charlotte, doesn't NASCAR have a couple of races to set the field? A few years ago, at Charlotte, Gordon won one of the races, crashed after the finishline, then raced the main race in a different car. He had to start from the back of the pack but he still got the win in the earlier race.

The fact is, drag racing is unique in that an event takes place with many races run during the event and it's almost impossible to find a good analogy for this situation. But I still believe the race, not the event, is over when the first car crosses the finish line.