What is your idea of a Strong NHRA? (2 Viewers)

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......Since we're selling racing, and not crackers, let's start with the cars. The racing is what is important to these types of fans. They will return if the racing is there, and they will be interested in the people involved. This is how you grow a sport. You make the sport #1. The human interest stories come with it, but it will never be the reason a sport survives. If you make the people the stars, you will fall prey to that crowd, as they move on to whatever is next in the popular watercooler circle........

actually kevin i don't think we're too far apart......IMO you can't have the cars only or the stars only; they are
interconnected and maybe more so today than 3 or 4 decades ago.
you can not say that today's (3) pro classes have variety within the class....they still say ford, mopar, chevy but who's
kidding who, they are as homogenized as ever and the only differentiating factor is the paint/decals and of course
who is the owner/team/driver.
i also agree with you that if you put a good product on the track (my analogy is 'the music') the interest in drivers
will follow; and the owners/drivers with the best PR program (which includes social media) will attract more attention, money, noteriety, sponsors, and sponsor retention.
the large crowd around john force's trailer in the pits, whether his car is running or not, is not because he's got the coolest looking car.....there are very few players in nhra that get that 'crowd' in the pits when they are NOT warming up
their car.....snake, bernstein got them just a few year's ago....i would argue others that are noticed as popular drivers
are schumacher, capps and whichever force daughters are racing.
john force being the ONLY driver to hold his own outside the drag racing world.
 
Sorry guys (and gals)...

Just miss the drag racing I fell in love with. I'll be better, I'll try harder...
:)
So you admit YOU are the problem! :p

God knows I don't have the answers. I've seen first hand all of the sometimes strange things done over almost 20 years. I don't know that any of them have been very effective.

One thing I do know is, drag racing does not translate well to TV. I'm not faulting any of the folks involved in the broadcasts. It's just a fact that no media broadcast can come anywhere close to the sensory overload that is drag racing. I thought drag racing was kinda interesting on TV, but not interesting enough to motivate me to go to a track and spend money to watch it. I didn't "get it" until YOU took me to my first drag race. You took the time to explain everything that was happening on the track. The sensory overload was incredible, but having someone knowledgeable there to answer all of my dumb questions made the experience so much better. Last year, I talked 2 of my sisters, a brother-in-law and 2 nephews into going to their first drag races to show them what I do at the track and answer any questions they had. Like me before I went the first time, they didn't "get it" until they actually experienced it live. If everyone who "gets it" would bring just one newbie to each event, I think the sport would grow. Some of the newbies would come back on their own and bring new newbies.

I can say that if I had never met you, I likely never would have gone to a drag race. Since that first day at Bandimere, I've been to 55 different drag strips in the USA and Canada. You never know how you can change someone's life. Thank you Kevin!
 
Being relevant is the key.

Earthshaking performance has been the spectator draw while the class for everything was the back gate draw. Sanctioning bodies/promoters/tracks have fallen in love with the ease of making a profit off the back gate and forgot about making the event an outrageous experience for the spectator that would make them want to come back again and again. Advertising will get the spectators there once, the event/venue will decide whether they come back or not. If they did not enjoy the event/venue, then future advertising falls on deaf ears.

Purses need to be competitive, drag racing's are not even close to being what they need to be to make the sport relevant on a national scale.

What other sport charges you to see their major league stars but makes you sit through days of minor league participants for the privilege? How many major sports have multiple winners per event on the same day?

All entities, whether not for profit, non profit or for profit, even your home, need to bring in more money than they pay out. Tom Compton came to NHRA when it was on the verge of bankruptcy and righted the ship. But he has never changed from the need for immediate results to long term stability/growth. The economy took a downturn but has recovered to a point that companies that got bailed out have repaid their loans and are showing great profits using new concepts and thinking. We shouldn't be using the economy as our excuse for empty seats and poor purses any longer.

A few years ago the LPGA was losing sponsors and events at a very fast pace on their way to extinction. A management change at the top was made at the demand of the participants and now the organization is flourishing. The new management embraced the diversity of their competitors, changed sponsorship policies that was open and even across the board, changed methods of promoting/marketing/televising series that gave everyone a fair ROI. Can something be learned from their experience? I doubt if NHRA will ever allow that to happen.

Minor league baseball is another example. Going broke, they upgraded their ball parks and made the games part of an enjoyable overall experience for fans, and presto, fans came in droves and the clubs became profitable and stable. Just like the lady's golf, same product on the playing field, just a better way of managing and promoting the events.

Brings us to the point of who to make the stars, the cars or drivers. Should be either or both but should be interchangable. Promote the sport because people/cars will come and go, but the sport needs to continue.

Just my 2 cents worth.
 
Bob, I agree with bringing newbies. The cost of the ticket is a big issue though. I have a hard time getting someone to plop down $60 plus parking, food and whatever else on a "hey lets go check this out" type of deal.
 
I see the price for a race st $60. I
check on tickets for KU basketball
game at Allen Field House $100 for nose bleed section for 2 hrs entertainment. Sounds like $60 is a
hell of a deal and if you show race ticket last weekend you get in division race free. Finally using their heads.
 
I guess we disagree. There's people that follow people, and people that follow racing. Cars attract the racing crowd. People that like the cars, will always like the people involved with them. People that follow people, will always like the people, and never really care what type of cracker you spread it on.

Since we're selling racing, and not crackers, let's start with the cars. The racing is what is important to these types of fans. They will return if the racing is there, and they will be interested in the people involved. This is how you grow a sport. You make the sport #1. The human interest stories come with it, but it will never be the reason a sport survives. If you make the people the stars, you will fall prey to that crowd, as they move on to whatever is next in the popular watercooler circle.

I couldn’t agree more. The cars are the stars and NHRA needs to reawaken to that fact. Those who drive them come and go and are almost incidental to racing. How many cars/ teams have you followed over the years that changed drivers like yesterday’s socks? Take Roland Leong’s Hawaiian for example. Everyone remembers the Hawaiian – few could tell you all the different drivers. I’ve been involved with this sport for over 40 years and can tell you that had I been only following personalities I would have bailed out decades ago when some of the greats like Garlits or Snake or Muldowney retired. Make no mistake - I respect and admire them, but I still love the sport because there is simply no other motorsport that can boast of machines as awe-inspiring as a TF or FC; and nothing that piques my technological interest like PS, Comp Eliminator, Super Stock and even Stock. Yeah, that’s the mechanical engineer in me and I get it that not everyone is involved purely for the technology. Some like the pretty cars, others the competition, and others may define “performance” in a theatric sense. But it is still centered on cars and racing.

But back on topic, in my mind a strong NHRA will be one that devotes whatever energy and finances available to doing two things. 1) preserve and promote local tracks, and 2) get new people involved in the sport. Not so much focus on new spectators, but on new racers, teams, & crews. Spectators will follow. Once the Big Show prices itself out of existence, drag racing will continue at the Sportsman/ grassroots level and Nostalgia-styled racing will become the equivalent of the Big Show; albeit simpler, more fun, and way less expensive.

A strong NHRA would stop dramatizing what is inherently dramatic (as Kevin said earlier in the thread). If you can’t get thrilled by simply experiencing a fuel car, you might want to check to see if you have a pulse. We have the single most incredible motorsport on the planet – promote it like it was the Second Coming! And we don’t need a countdown that creates contrived champions, nor need we worry that drag racing emulates NASCAR – different crowd; different types of people. Let’s just get back to cars and racing the way Wally intended it.
 
If everyone who "gets it" would bring just one newbie to each event, I think the sport would grow. Some of the newbies would come back on their own and bring new newbies. / / You never know how you can change someone's life. Thank you Kevin!

I always tried to drag someone to the drags. It hardly ever "took", but you bear witness. Some folks just have the right amount of poor immunity to the fascinating. :)

You are most welcome, and I can thank you as well!
Getting to see Pike's Peak when there was still a lot of dirt was a pleasure. Rod Millen chirping the tires of his Toyota past us to show us the future speeds the hill would see. Amazing. But especially travelling to the unique tracks Colorado offered. The tight, twisty course through the huge boulders outside Buena Vista, to the huge straight-away before the tight-twisties on the Salida course (or was that the Cañon City course?) Either way, I thank you as much. I loved seeing the hill climbs outside the "big show" of the Peak. It will forever be different, much like drag racing, and I was lucky to see it in it's prime, thanks to you.

Speaking of sharing. What do you think of the all-tarmac Race to the Clouds? I saw Romain Dumas' planned car. Looks snotty as hell, and sort of going old school with the roadster top.




There's racing fans, then there's RACING fans. I can hang with both, but RACING fans are so much more fun to hang around. Loud fast cars + cold bolonie sandwiches or dogs on the hibachi + beers = 5-star accomodations, and the memories are worth more than any amount of money.


there is simply no other motorsport that can boast of machines as awe-inspiring as a TF or FC; and nothing that piques my technological interest like PS, Comp Eliminator, Super Stock and even Stock. Yeah, that’s the mechanical engineer in me and I get it that not everyone is involved purely for the technology. Some like the pretty cars, others the competition, and others may define “performance” in a theatric sense. But it is still centered on cars and racing.

That is the truth! I think if anyone has tried to improve performance on a machine, any machine, you get a certain respect for the folks that can take that to the nth degree, squeezing the absolute last tiniest bit from something that most say "there's nothing left". It does offer so much to so many types of fans.
 
I ask for suggestions on how NHRA could improve the product, and I'm hearing the same tired, recycled Whining! I think some of you are just flat out burned out on Drag racing but won't admit it. So you come up with reasons why you quit going, I can certainly understand someone saying 30 years of this sport was enough...
 
My ideas probably won't be very popular but here goes. First forget about the salaries. They are in fact low for the size of the operation and they are like a pimple on an elephants rear end. Second reduce the number of national events to 12-14. Each event would be 2 days with 3 qualifying rounds on friday day/night and one qualifying saturday am with eliminations starting at 1:00. Promote each event with advertising that covers 300 miles in every direction starting 2 weeks in advance. Use your race sponsor to help with promotions and require eace pro car to make x number of area personal appearances each year to help promote the races. Limit entries at national events to pro, alcohol funny, alcohol dragster top sportsman, top dragster and factory super stock. Only run on tracks that can support 1320 foot races or reduce all races to 1000 foot for the tracks that can't support 1/4 mile runs. If you advertise on radio/tv and print you'll be surprised at the media coverage you'll get in return..perhaps not right off but the next year you can go to the media and tell them you want to spend $$$ on advertising but how disapointed you were last year when you spent $$ and didn't get any coverage of the race results. They will get the message. And finally broadcast the races one week later, they don't have many viewers anyway and you can do qualifying and eliminations in 2 or 2 1/2 hour show.

1 Week Tape Delay, wasn't that suggested 15 years ago by TNN/CBS when NHRA was on it's way out from TNN?

http://www.nhra.net/wklynews/1999news/january/010801.html
 
nhra drag racing is just as much about the stars as it is the cars, and the sport used to have many more stars,
that arguably drew the fans who paid the price to see the stars and the cars.

if you say it's just about the cars, then name one other entertainment that fans attend because of
just the entertainment vehicle
do fans go to nascar without knowing names? favorites?
do fans go to concerts because it's going to 'country' but they don't know the artist playing?
do fans go to stick and ball sports without knowing the players?
does nbc broadcast the olympics for 2 weeks and not concentrate on specific athletes?

the nitro, the shaking bleachers, the burnouts, the throttle wacks: that is our rock-n-roll music.
(IMO not as rock-n-roll as it used to be)
is the quality of our music really good, or is it just ok?
and who's our singers?....is john force singing all our songs?....that's too bad, his voice
will wear out sooner or later, then who?....and most folks don't have a clue he's had 16 #1 hits!

nhra: so who mr. casual motorsports fan plays our rock-n-roll?....
fan: don garlits.....(pause)......the snake.....(pause)..... shirley muldowney!
nhra: rite, but they haven't raced for many years
fan: really?
nhra: anyone else?
fan: ummm, ffff force i think is the name, john force rite?
nhra: rite, he has our sport on his back, but i digress, anyone else?
fan: ummmm.....nope, can't think of anyone
nhra: do you come to our event that stops once a year just 60 miles from you?
fan: many years ago i did, but i don't really follow nhra anymore
nhra: are you going to any auto races this year?
fan: YEAH!, i'm flying to florida to the daytona 500 with my buddies, i can't wait!

who are our players?....nobody knows
antron wins the whole deal as a minority racer; nobody noticed, nobody knows who antron is.
the daytona 500 winner goes on the talk show circuit for a week.

if you're not doing social media today and you're in entertainment, you're missing the boat.
hire the best people to run your social media marketing and try to study
your results/traffic....these days it's part of brand building and peaking interest in your product

develop the public's interest in specific drivers and they will pay attention.
i see this happening with ron capps via social media.
and make sure the music you're playing is really good.

I was waiting for a Danica reference here lol.
 
Separate PRO competition from the sportsman competition. Sportsman racing would be what it is... racing. If fans want to shop up, so be it. Everything revolves around the racers. Ticket prices should be set based on what each track needs to provide the facilities and employees for the event. The NHRA gets a small cut to pay for organizing a national circuit. Sportsman competition would be the NHRA of old, providing motor heads with a safe facility to follow their hobby and test their skills against the best.

Stop kidding ourselves... PRO racing isn't racing, it hasn't been since the 20th century in my opinion. PRO racing is an advertising opportunity for sponsors. it is MONEY driven, it is a profit machine. It should be built that way. It should be geared towards the fans. What do the fans want? The fans want the noise (100% nitro mandatory), they want dry hops (mandatory), they want throttle whacks (mandatory), they want trash talking (don't penalize someone who starts a fight in the shutdown), they want drama, they want they want jet cars, they want wheelie cars. None of these things improve the quality of the race, but this isn't about racing, remember? This is about entertainment, fans, sponsors, and MONEY. Sure they are drag racing, but that's only a component, a side effect of providing the entertainment this event should be about. Nitro cars run on money, you want to make a profit from running a nitro car, you don't win races, you win sponsors... you get sponsors by getting fans... in this venue - you get fans by putting on the best show.

You want racing? Go to that sportsman race. You want a show? Go to the PRO race.

This might offend some pro teams. This might offend some pro drivers. Here's whatcha do then... you pro teams and drivers who want to continue and claim that NHRA PRO racing is really racing... you go start your own deal... and you inherit all the problems plaguing the current NHRA. What will happen (or is happening) is your costs to put on a "race" will be so high that your livelihood will teeter on where you can get cash from... you will become hopelessly dependent on sponsor money. At that point it will become (or has become) whoever has the most money will tend to win the most races. At that point it will be (or is) no longer racing because its no longer a fair playing field. Then you'll continue down that path until the fans get bored and leave, when the fans run leave the sponsors leave, when the sponsors leave the money goes with it. With no more money nobody can race anymore cause no independent person (besides maybe the Sheik) has enough money to run a car. Game over.

One last edit. I think monster trucks around 1993 or so were at a crossroads. A group wanted to legitimize monster truck racing, make it about racing. Another group wanted to turn it into an entertainment show.

Specifically, a guy by the name of Everett Jasmer wanted to make it legit racing. Anyone hear of Everett? He owns USA-1.. his shop is up the road from where I work. I stopped in one day and talked with him. He was EXTREMELY passionate about the fact that he wanted monster truck racing to be legit. He still feels this way and feels he made the right decision. I drive by his shop a couple times a week, and its him, by himself in his shop surround by his USA1 merchandise and truck.

On the other hand, a guy named Dennis Anderson had a choice to make. Sure he was passionate about the racing, but Dennis knew there was no future in legitimate monster truck racing. You ever hear of Dennis Anderson?

USHRA, the sanctioning body... they chose the entertainment route and created Monster Jam. Everett chose to leave USHRA, Dennis went along with Monster Jam.

How bout this with Jet Cars, There Was ProJet and Al Hanna was the leader in wanting to make Jet Car Racing Legit Competition. He did the Ultrateams in 1996 on CBS (which I do believe is the only time Mike Joy has Ever done Drag Racing Commentary). Then Dennis Roslansky became president of ProJet and it was dissolved. Now you have Elaine Larsen & others doing the NJRA which is more Show. The Larsen Jets Racing Team is connected with IHRA now and they're doing a Jet Dragster Championship.

I remember talking to Al Hanna last year at Englishtown for the Night of Thrills and he HATES the NJRA bit and I bet he equally hates the IHRA doing the Jet Dragster Championship with 4 lady drivers who are all team mates as opposed to opening it up to the masses , plus he knows that him w/Jill Canuso in the Queen of Diamonds 2 & Bob Van Sciver w/Ernie Bogue in the Jersey Thunder are the best lol.
 
I ask for suggestions on how NHRA could improve the product, and I'm hearing the same tired, recycled Whining! I think some of you are just flat out burned out on Drag racing but won't admit it. So you come up with reasons why you quit going, I can certainly understand someone saying 30 years of this sport was enough...

I think, as you said in post #1, there's been "probably 500 threads", on these topics. I think we've all kind of run out of new things to say about it all. At the very least, it seems to be hardly worth the energy to type out the same opinions over and over again. Even a dog stops chasing it's own tail after a while.

Joe, I agree, there is a burn out problem. This evidence is in what I (don't) see on the main thread page of the NHRA section of this site, and that is any real threads about the racing! We're two events into this season, and you can go back two or three pages of threads on here, and there's pretty much no talk of what actually happened on Sunday. If you want to try to defend what little there is (mostly in the "What a weekend for racing" thread), archive back over the seasons, to the Sunday night/Monday threads after a national event, and it's a stark contrast.

Last weekend had Alexis Dejoria getting her first pro win, a first time Pro Stock #1 qualifier in Chris McGaha (which reminds me that we all dropped the ball on congratulating Jim Yates), Brittany Force in her first final, V. Gaines coming away with the Pro Stock points lead for the first time ever, and even Dan Fletcher inching another win closer to taking over Warren Johnson for third on the all-time national event win list.

Oh, and this all happened at a revamped and improved track and event that was, at one point within the last year, not even going to be on the schedule this year.

You're right; I didn't start any threads on that stuff either. Honestly, I rarely start threads. And while this is not meant to be a "head in the sand" thought, maybe we're putting so much emphasis on what needs changing and improving that we're not even enjoying what is good any more. If that's the case, then are we merely following all of this out of habit?
 
A strong NHRA hasn't varied in 60 years, since back when Wally started the whole thing. It's built on a strong sportsman program supported by a healthy ecosystem of performance parts suppliers, with a clear path from the sportsman ranks all the way to the pros.

A strong sportsman program creates interest among hundreds of thousands, from the people who actually race, through their many friends and families, to the people who just love a fun day watching local people race for a cheap ticket. Those people will attend the national circus when it comes to town, not to worry.

It also builds a robust performance industry that has a rich market for their parts, a great test bed for new ideas, and a platform to build parts for OEMs. And many of those firms will be healthy enough to sponsor pros, and budding pros.

And a strong sportsman program provides a stepping stone for the pros. There needs to be a clear path from local bracket racer to top fuel, if you have the skills, desire, and passion for it. Just as in nearly every other sport, there needs to be a way to spend time at each rung on the ladder and see clearly what the next rung is.

All that said, if I was in charge of NHRA national events, I would put the focus squarely on that stepping stone. We are the only sport in the world where the pros and the amateurs compete on the exact same field of play, on the same day, in front of the same crowd. We don't do nearly enough to leverage that.

I'd like to see that clearly played out. Today the ladder is nitro, pro stock (car and bike), alky, and ... A bunch of random stuff (SC, SG, SST, STK, COMP, ...). No one understands any of that stuff, and it doesn't build the "I get it, these are the AAA teams..." in the minds of the fans. Worse, it doesn't say "hey, I could do that!", and build future sportsman racer interest.

Today, the missing rungs are ProMod, and TD/TS. They are clearly the next rungs in the ladders. And people can get TD & TS if you explain them. Save all the other stuff for divisional competition. (Note, we race in SC and I still believe this.). So a national event is TF, FC, PS (PB), PM, TAD, TAFC, COMP(?), TD, TS. All fast cars, all easy to understand, all build one to the next (eg, TD:6s, TAD:5s, FC:4s, TF:3s)

The other thing is, don't start the Sunday show with your best cars. Build up to it. Run the semis of the slower cars, then build up to round one of TF. By the time I've seen a TD do 210, then a TAD do 255, I'll be itching to see someone do 300+. The first cars are loud, the alky cars are really loud, the nitro cars are off the chart. The way it is today, there's no way even a 5sec, 260mph TAD isn't a let down.

Then clearly put some time, energy, and love back in the divisional series. Celebrate the heck out of them. With promos all over the web, with $$ for the local tracks to promote them, and so on. Maybe have those series build to regional championships, followed by a big national championship event -- the day before the pro finals maybe??

The whole focus today is upside down. We say that people only want nitro because that's what we feed them. We (for some reason) think people would rather have some idiot shoot t-shirts at them rather than watch a cool video about how to get started in the sportsman ranks, or how bracket racing works. If we built and celebrated the sportsman program better, people would love it too.

So that's what I think a strong NHRA is, just like what Wally thought it was: a bunch of people with passion for cars, racing them safely, supported by really strong performance parts companies, and celebrated with a few (I agree: 10-12) big national events.

Chris
 
I find that what the NHRA is facing is people's tastes. I have a friend that is a die hard NASCAR friend. I told him about top fuel and his response was "if it doesn't turn left, I'm not interested". I talk to people about baseball vs. football and people invariably say they like football more than baseball because there is more action. I don't think drag racing is dull, but somehow or another, it seems to me to be dull in the eyes of many. I think if you fix that, the TV ratings and event attendance will pick up. But I don't know how to market 15 minutes round racing with an hour between rounds as exciting. with NASCAR and football, there is always something happening to captivate attention, but as with baseball, drag racing appears flat to most people. I know attending in person is so much better than TV, but if you can't get people to see/hear/smell the action in person, what are you going to do?
 
I ask for suggestions on how NHRA could improve the product, and I'm hearing the same tired, recycled Whining! I think some of you are just flat out burned out on Drag racing but won't admit it. So you come up with reasons why you quit going, I can certainly understand someone saying 30 years of this sport was enough...
Simple... I don't have $1000 to travel out of town, pay for meals, hotel, gas, tickets, and any of the other B/S that goes with basicly a five day road trip... plus Kat isn't going to spend 3 days at a drag race... heck I'm not sure I can handle twelve to fifteen hours at the track a day anymore... and any less time would be kissin' away money...

d'kid what a Drag it is gettin' old
 
You can not make the sport number one if the title sponsor has limited the sponsorship of teams by keeping said title sponsors competition out of the series.

NHRA used to be strong because everyone could have a dog in the show. Not so since Coke company took over as the title , using the "sport drink" logo's.

That sports fans limits the growth of the sport, Not the multi car teams, if it wasn't for multi car teams there would be no fuel car show at all.
 
You can not make the sport number one if the title sponsor has limited the sponsorship of teams by keeping said title sponsors competition out of the series.

NHRA used to be strong because everyone could have a dog in the show. Not so since Coke company took over as the title , using the "sport drink" logo's.

That sports fans limits the growth of the sport, Not the multi car teams, if it wasn't for multi car teams there would be no fuel car show at all.

Because Coke obviously sees more $$$ supporting Danica, Tony Stewart, Denny Hamlin, Greg Biffle, Ryan Newman & Joey Logano, why support NHRA with Coca-Cola when we can give them the Mountain Dew competitor that's only sold in select store.
 
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