John Asher knocks it out of the park on Pro Stock (1 Viewer)

[SundayNiagara]

Pro Stock mattered when all makes were represented and there were more than 3 engine builders. There is no real factory loyalty or true manufacturer competition now....

Next step from here is Pro Mod or fuel altereds if you want to elevate the level of enthusiasm or new interest.

Yes on the fuel altereds, but ONLY the short wheelbase, REAL fuel altereds.

 

[Reese]

I don't think there are any class that would keep the fans in the stands after nitro (maybe a street outlaw cars best of three races would keep the kids there). Even on the P.A. they tell everyone what time the nitro cars going to run again. I myself very rarely leave the stands because I like the watch all the classes but I understand that there are few that feels the same way I do.

 

[Nick Name]

At some point, National events will have to become all pro shows, or people will keep staying away. It is almost criminal to charge the kind of money NHRA does to get into an event, then run those throttle stop type cars that leave the starting line, then bog for a few seconds then take off. And anything where the first one to the finish line can lose, should never be run in front of paying spectators.

Even if Pro Stock was replaced by a bunch of "lights out" cars, it would draw a crowd.

 

[Reese]

At some point, National events will have to become all pro shows, or people will keep staying away. It is almost criminal to charge the kind of money NHRA does to get into an event, then run those throttle stop type cars that leave the starting line, then bog for a few seconds then take off. And anything where the first one to the finish line can lose, should never be run in front of paying spectators.

I don't see that happening anytime soon. Charging 400 sportsman racers $400 entry fee is a good payday for NHRA when you only have to spend maybe $20,000 in prize money. Besides they only run about 2 or 3 rounds on Sunday instead of 6 or 7 they use too. Most sportsman classes are run before fans get there and/or after the pro show.
But to your point they have reduced the quotas in each of the classes the pass few years so maybe they are phasing them out.

 

[SoCal Racer]

Pro Stock mattered when all makes were represented and there were more than 3 engine builders. There is no real factory loyalty or true manufacturer competition now....

This is one of the big problems and makes the class hard to enjoy to even for PS lovers. This class started with nearly every manufacturer represented, and to be able to compete at least looked attainable. Now it's completely out of reach for most, and there's only two manufacturers represented most of the time (excepting Charlie Wescott, and Larry Morgan when he had the Mustang).

But to Asher's "the show" point, what first got me excited about Pro Stock racing was match racing! Between national events the touring pros were booked in to your local track and it was pure showmanship with "gold dust," talking smack, and pumping up the fans for their favorite manufacturer, team, or driver. Sadly, I don't know if I'd even go to a PS match race now....IF you could find one.

 

[FABMAN]

I can't see NHRA ever pulling PS, these wealthy owners would clean NHRA'S pocket book in court.

 

[vegasnitro]

The stands are full by default when pro stock is run before fuel classes since fans are waiting. When pro stock falls after it there is a mass exodus. That is another angle to look at because any class run after fuel is going to suffer the same fate. Erica got a lot of eyes on her the last few years because she was always in late rounds run before fuel and not after.
I'm not jumping on the pro stock is dead bandwagon. I know when I'm in the pits fans seem almost as interested in pro stock cars as they are top fuel or funny car.
When I hear pro stock rev up ready to launch its exciting to me. I can't wait to see the reaction times but casual fans are not looking for that so as the cars go down the track it is probably boring to those there to see header flames.
I don't see fans running back to the stands to watch pro stock motorcycle. Why is no one saying it is dead? Just because they have full fields? Pro stock is more expensive and run more events. The EFI change is the primary reason fields are not full.

Pro Stock runs after the fuel cars for every round except the finals. 80% of the people in the stands are there to see/hear nitro cars and couldn't tell you the difference between EFI and carburetors. The stands have ALWAYS emptied out to a large degree after the fuel cars, this is not a new phenomenon.

 

[vegasnitro]

At some point, National events will have to become all pro shows, or people will keep staying away. It is almost criminal to charge the kind of money NHRA does to get into an event, then run those throttle stop type cars that leave the starting line, then bog for a few seconds then take off. And anything where the first one to the finish line can lose, should never be run in front of paying spectators.

Even if Pro Stock was replaced by a bunch of "lights out" cars, it would draw a crowd.

No one that bought a ticket is there to watch Super Gas/Super Comp in the first place, and thusly don't really care about those classes whether they are running or not. When those cars are running, they are using the restroom, roaming the pits, buying TShirts or getting a hot dog. The tracks will never give up the "back gate" those racers bring. In other words those classes are here to stay. To expect a complete program that features all heads up racing with no breaks in action all day is just not realistic or economically viable. Case in point, the alcohol cars. There not many more fans in the stands when those machines run compared to the super categories, they are heads up, faster than all other categories except nitro and look a lot like their nitro cousins, yet no one is hanging around for them either.

 

[vegasnitro]

I don't see that happening anytime soon. Charging 400 sportsman racers $400 entry fee is a good payday for NHRA when you only have to spend maybe $20,000 in prize money. Besides they only run about 2 or 3 rounds on Sunday instead of 6 or 7 they use too. Most sportsman classes are run before fans get there and/or after the pro show.
But to your point they have reduced the quotas in each of the classes the pass few years so maybe they are phasing them out.

Quotas have only been reduced at tracks with pit parking space issues as far as I know. There is usually about 1,000 cars on property at Vegas 2 because they can handle it.

 

[Mooseman]

I quit caring about Pro Stock as soon as NHRA started weight breaks which effectively took Mopars out of the game.

So the early 70's? Your view is one I've heard a lot and it seems that a lot of animosity towards pro stock is in reality a 40 year old grudge because or something that happened years and years ago.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

Case in point, the alcohol cars. There not many more fans in the stands when those machines run compared to the super categories, they are heads up, faster than all other categories except nitro and look a lot like their nitro cousins, yet no one is hanging around for them either.

Which includes Pro Mod, the class that so many think should be the savior to professional level doorslammer racing. I'm at Indy every year, and was just at Route 66 a couple weeks ago, and there's not a measureable amount more fans in the stands for Pro Mod as there are for the alcohol cars at any given point during the event. I've heard it a thousand times, but it just isn't accurate.

Sean D

 

[Nunz]

I can understand how the casual fan might take a break after fuel cars run. But, as many have said, even PM and Alcohol cars don't keep everyone seated. Those are some of the wildest cars on the planet, in looks and in performance. And, nowadays, both PM and Alky cars on average do better burnouts than the fuel cars. So do PS cars for that matter.

 

[mick]

going to disagree with mr. asher on this one....PS is a tad stale, but IMO not on it's last legs.
yes, i think the nhra and owners/drivers mite want to discuss where the class is at and try to reign in spending.
the class is the epitome of high-tech door-slammer racing which i know is hard to convey to the fans.
BUT
nitro is the 'show' and they're turning these cars so fast now, adding another 'can't miss' class IMO is not the rite idea.
fans show up to watch nitro - nhra advertises nitro as the experience on the track and in the pits, give them time to do both
without feeling as if they are missing something very exciting on the track.....as i've said before, when
a spectator gets out of their seat and wanders to vending or pit areas, this is a profit center.....which makes an argument that
qual. rounds on fridays and saturdays should slow down the turn around time to give spectators more time to spend.
i realize in this fast paced world the nhra is trying to speed up their day so fans aren't there 6+ hours.....but look at saturdays,
they are very well attended.....maybe just speed up sundays as folks have to get back to work.

 

[mike]

You know, I keep reading that the stands "always emptied out for Pro Stock", I don't thinks so. Here are my pictures from the 1983 World Finals: https://picasaweb.google.com/107037667974010653544/1983OCIRWorldFinals?authuser=0&feat=directlink (hope that works). You can clearly see the stands are just as packed for Pro Stock as they are for Top Fuel and Funny Car. From my vantage point it has only been in the last 15-20 years or so that Pro Stock has become little more than a break time between fuel rounds.

 

[mikebcurve]

Stands never emptied out for pro stock. They've always emptied out after the fuel classes regardless of what was up next. Popularity has definitely taken a hit since 1983 but not only pro stock. Comparing the 80's with anything today is apples to oranges.

Does anyone remember what the run schedule was 30+ years ago? I'm thinking pro stock was run before fuel every round. There were a lot more sportman runs between the pro classes back then.

Some tracks have so much seating they look empty and still have a large number of spectators. I think everything will be just fine. It's too early into the EFI change to make a judgement. I'm sure the decision was based on the long term not what was best the first season with it.

 

[Nick Name]

Pro stock, even back in the day, was always an east coast thing. The west coast was always nitro. OCIR used to run those 64 car funny car shows, Manufacturers championships, etc and pack the joint out. They tried to do a Pro Stock event the same way. Had everyone there. Grumpy, Nichelson, Landy, all of them. Folks that went said it was a ghost town. They never tried that again.

 

[Bill]

No one that bought a ticket is there to watch Super Gas/Super Comp in the first place, and thusly don't really care about those classes whether they are running or not. When those cars are running, they are using the restroom, roaming the pits, buying TShirts or getting a hot dog. The tracks will never give up the "back gate" those racers bring. In other words those classes are here to stay. To expect a complete program that features all heads up racing with no breaks in action all day is just not realistic or economically viable. Case in point, the alcohol cars. There not many more fans in the stands when those machines run compared to the super categories, they are heads up, faster than all other categories except nitro and look a lot like their nitro cousins, yet no one is hanging around for them either.

"To expect a complete program that features all heads up racing with no breaks in action all day is just not realistic or economically viable."

Funny you should mention that, because, that is EXACTLY what an NHRA national event was in the pre-1963 era of drag racing.

There were NO "Professional" classes, racing "teams," nor "spec" cars of any kind. And, they had 1,200 cars entered (or, thereabouts) at the '62 Nationals and wall-to-wall spectators.

Every race was heads-up... drag racing!

The Chrstmas Tree and, big money changed all that, and what have we got, now?

Our "sport" has become "show business"... and, I think that's a shame.

Fix it? I wish I knew how... Writer Thomas Wolfe said, "You can't go home again." An astute and pertinent observation...

 

[mikebcurve]

A lot of sports have turned into show business and it is a shame.

 

[Randy]

Short wheelbase fuel altereds with wing restrictions.

 

[dr flames]

I'll second that Randy, FYI big Bill Jones has a 105" Don Long Alterd, #4 of 4, welded up in 1969