Force and T Ped going at it in the shutdown? (2 Viewers)

[Demon]

The ESPN crew did stir the hornets nest somewhat.

 

[Greg]

I don't know about anyone else, but this was probably the best race I've watched in the last 5 or 10 years. Man it was nice to get a shot of excitement to what has been an utterly boring sport lately. It was just refreshing. Like it or not, the sport was originally built on epic rivalries that were much uglier than this at times.

What I find funny is, with all of the scrutiny NHRA gave to the run (i.e. video review, computer review, checking the tune-up, etc. etc.), what would they have done if Force simply decided NOT to run his car that round.

 

[FC138fan]

I think everyone on the Mater should reply to this one.

I agree with the last post, one of the most entertaining races in recent memory. Hopefully others tuned in to watch.

I feel bad for Force, his daughter just won the US Nats, a big deal, but this race won't be remembered so much for that.

What if he actually didn't throw the run, everyone has already made their decision, and theres nothing he can do to make them think otherwise...

Because it was such a bad run... In the bad lane...

If he is for real and that was a legit loss, he needs to hold a press conference and swear to god that it was a legit loss. With his newly revived faith I would be willing to believe him if he would do that. I don't think John is a liar or a dishonest person.......

 

[mike]

maybe Force would have been better off beating Robert in the semis so he could have been taken to task for taking a dive against Ashley in the finals instead.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

. . . what would they have done if Force simply decided NOT to run his car that round.

Then the NHRA would have enforced the rule and the run would have been thrown out and Robert would have been eliminated from the countdown. It's what Kalitta did in the old days so there was no question about his intentions of helping his team car along. Funny thing, I can't remember anyone chiding him for doing it???? That's why the rule was written.

 

[farmje]

As I said in the other thread:

F*ck Force and F*ck the NHRA! You've lost a paying fan.

For the sheep that can't see that John didn't dive despite the rules (as correctly stated by TPed), keep drinking the Kool Aid.

Like Tony P. said....John should be ashamed of himself.

I'm done with this WWE crap.

Deuces, Drew.

Peace.

 

[farmje]

i have never liked the ped's and today just proves why. Tony is the only driver thats ever driven for john that i never pulled for. That says alot right there being i'm a huge jfr fan. I'm just tired of hearing all the "we are the little guy" "we dont have as much $$$" "viva mexico" "thanks to the hispanics" "its not fair" etc etc etc that continuosly flows from them.

Today just solidifies that. To call someone a cheater is wrong. Its not cheating. Do i like it when people throw races? Ofcourse not. I understand it though, and i would do the exact same thing. And so would any team owner with half a brain. And if anyone of us were team owners and didnt, then your not a good business man. Sure john got mad, i would have too. As far as fining him, he didnt touch him. He didnt swing at anyone that i saw. The only reason he touched any of the nhra people is b/c they came and got between them. Personally, i wished john would have kicked tp's azz.

Tony must have forgot that we wouldnt even know who the hell he was if it wasnt for john force. He didnt have any problems driving for john for 8 years winning a championship and earning enough $$$ to start his own team.

And while i'm on it, i lost all respect for mike dunn today as well. That was utterly ridiculous to keep going on about it. To me, if its anyone's fault, its nhra's for having this fake azz clowndown championship to begin with, which by the way the ped's both cheated the real pts champ the last 2 years.

thank you!

 

[turbo ken]

No matter whose side you're taking on this, it's pretty clear who put it all into motion.

The ESPN director and pit reporters.

Force attempted to take the high road initially, but they stayed after him until he finally blew up.

So either the praise or blame should be placed on the tv crew for the shut down area incident coming to fruition.

Post of the year!!!

 

[lmhb oyf]

bottom line is tony pedregon had NO problem at all diving for force for 8 years, not that it did his brother in its a problem??? both pedregons are cryers and have no class at all! funniest moment was when john said to tony the cryer " my kid kicked your a$$" that was priceless! go team force! its a buisness period!

The difference is that at the time John was his boss and Tony did what he was told to do as an employee. It doesn't mean that he liked doing it.

Additionally, there wasn't a rule against it at the time unlike now as Tony correctly pointed out in the interview.

Like Mike Dunn said both immediately after the run and then again after the NHRA's lame explanation, "It stinks to high hell (heck)."

 

[BigTuna]

maybe Force would have been better off beating Robert in the semis so he could have been taken to task for taking a dive against Ashley in the finals instead.

Exactly, anyone can find a reason to complain with a multi-car team going rounds. It happens with ever mutli car team in every sport. STFU and race, STFU and build your own multi car team, and always STFU when you get beat.

Im no JF fan boy but I am glad to see the first chance he got he confronted him top side for that cheap shot on public television. Its a complete cheap shot since has to win the round to be vindicated, then what? he is in the finals with Ashley and if she wins, he will still hear crap.

The only way he can win against that accusation is to never lose against a team mate....

 

[Billy]

Bill, the quoted portion above is the issue. Let me be clear - the issue is not with John Force, Tony Pedregon or Don Schumacher. It is not with the racers at all. The issue is with a sanctioning body that would allow this to even be a question that a team owner could pose. That a team owner is allowed to determine the outcome of even one race is detrimental to the sport. Let's also be clear - this is not just an NHRA issue. It is a motorsports issue. When NASCAR drivers from the same team are running 1-2 and one pulls over so the other can lead a lap, it cheapens the sport. When Rubens Barrichello was ordered to pull over to let Michael Schumacher win the the '02 Austrian Grand Prix, it cheapened the sport. When a sanctioning body allows its sport to be manipulated by team owners, the achievements of all that sport's participants are cheapened. Back to the NHRA, regrettably this isn't the first time the NHRA rule book has been marginalized for the benefit of a specific team. It's not even the first time this year. That's sad. That needs to change.

I politely disagree with your assertions, Charles. The issue IS with John Force, Tony Pedregon, and Don Schumacher. They are team owners and because of the responsibility they bear to do everything within reason to win the championship, they employ team orders in instances where the risks are too great to leave the outcome to chance. I'm not here to defend the ethical ramifications of that. All I know is that until any of us find ourselves in a situation where several millions of dollars are hanging in the balance, we can prattle on about the indecency of team orders all we want with little danger of losing a dime. Let me also be clear as you were and I appreciate your thoughtful opinion.

The racers have a boss. It's the team owner. The team owner has a boss. It's the sponsor. No sponsor on the face of the earth is ever going to tell a team owner not to employ team orders. At the end of the year, no sponsor is going to tell a team owner, "Well, you had a chance to win the championship but, by golly, you didn't issue any team orders and the Brand X guys won the title. But we're so proud of you, we'll sponsor you again next year because, Good Galoshes, you race the old fashioned way".

In reality, Corporate America issues team orders in their own universe every day (especially on Wall St.) so having the race team they sponsor use them as well is no disgrace to them. Can we disagree on the ethical impact of team orders? Yes, but I don't believe they cheapen the sport because it's a tool that all the multi-car teams (in every racing series)use when they deem it necessary and, despite them, professional motorsports continue to command millions of fans worldwide. Most savvy racing fans view team orders as a tactical element to the sport. What would unquestionably cheapen the sport would be team orders issued between competing teams. Now you've got real problems.

No fan wants to think the outcome of any race is predetermined. But when you weigh the alternatives, such as multi-car teams losing their sponsors, car counts dwindling even more than they have, and fewer team owners willing to take on the financial risks of allowing a championship to evade their grasp because of a reluctance to employ a strategy his opponents make use of, the choice becomes more clear.

If you can create a 100% ironclad method of determining whether team orders have been employed, the NHRA is listening. Examining post-race data is not going to infallibly uncover a smoking gun no matter how skilled the investigator. There are so many ways to sabotage a run--either from the driver side of the equation or the mechanical side--that it's ludicrous to argue the point. And all it would take is one wrong decision by the sanctioning body as to whether a race was thrown to cause a firestorm of protests from team after team whenever a ruling was handed down. And THAT would cheapen the sport to such a degree that who would even take the risk of being accused of an infraction when there may have been no premeditated behavior whatsoever on their part?

I'm reminded of the old story of the man who asked the woman if she would have sex with him for $50. She said, "No, I won't". Then he asked her if she would have sex with him for $100,000. She said, "For $100,000 I would." He then said, "Now that we've established what you are, all we need to discuss is the price". Every multi-car team employs team orders, and in the big picture, it underscores one of the main reasons for having one in the first place. NASCAR does it, F-1 does it, NHRA drag racing does it. The fans keep buying tickets, watching the TV coverage, and spending $$$ on hats, T-shirts, and diecast cars. Sponsors want championships and all the TV exposure that winning championships buys them. I remember when team orders were the definition of evil. I also remember when artificial turf, the designated hitter, expansion teams, the 3-point shot, moving the goalposts to the back of the end zone, merging the NFL and the AFL, the 75-minute between-round rule, hockey helmets, collective bargaining, and the salary cap were all going to be our downfalls. Things change--sometimes for the better and sometimes not. But they change.

 

[farmje]

In watching the video again on espn.com, Tony knew exactly what he was doing. What a freaking tool.

 

[TooTall999]

That is exactly what I was thinking, why bring Don into this?

This goes back to the alleged favoritism shown to John Force racing in allowing Robert to drive John's car at a test session in Brainerd.

 

[.]

Why was Tony even down there runnin his yap at Force?
Forces run didn't affect him in any way, shape or form.

Cruz said Force was a cheater, but he didn't have the balls to say it to his face.

 

[lmhb oyf]

In response to those somehow blaming ESPN for their part in this, I simply say, "Are you kidding me?!?"

I'm glad that ESPN had the foresight to see the potential points drama and then actually had the balls to even insinuate to JFR that many know that the dive is coming in the interview prior to the run and then really press John afterwards for an explanation knowing full well what we had all witnessed.

Up until that point in the broadcast it was it's usual JFR love fest but I applaud the entire ESPN staff for essentially calling bullsh*t on this one and John knew it. ESPN did a great job of airing the complaint and then also the rebuttal. By the end of it John couldn't keep his facts straight and got so defensive that he said that he "didn't care what anyone thought."

That's not John. He knew he did something that many will find unethical and more importantly broke the rules that the NHRA implemented as a result of previous multi-car diving that, although obvious, looked like a pedal fest compared to the crap displayed today.

Dunn and ESPN flat out asked John about why he changed lanes when the other lane was clearly the better lane up to that point and John's excuse was complete BS and factually wrong. Worse yet was that he then mysteriously clocked a .2-something light at the hit. Yeah, that's normal for John Force.

My point is ESPN did a fantastic job of presenting what a majority of fans, viewers and racers suspected.

Kudos to ESPN.

 

[MW]

Sorry.. they are trouble makers & poor sports!.. send them back to their "Home Country" then they can win everything in sight! Maybe Obama will even sponsor them with stimulus $$

This is their home country. I went to school with Cruz 30 + years ago in Lomita, CA. I don't care if a race is thrown, but don't try to blow smoke up my a@@ and tell me your racing to win. John acted exactly as guilty people normally do.

 

[Lori]

All I saw on TV was two great drivers ending their friendship.

Perfect.
For me it was one team gaining a fan and one team losing one. I hate that it has come to this, and I am sure I will be told how naieve I am. I am just old school.

 

[Nemo]

This has nothing to do with politics (Obama) or ethnicity for cripes sakes....lets keep it out of that realm. I don't care for Force or the Pedrigons, and think it's silly on all fronts. Yea Force probably through the race, big deal, it's not his (or Heights) fault it came down to one round, if Cruz would have done a better job earlier in the year he would be middle pack and not concerned. Force is playing by the rules he was given, he raced the car without cheating (not keeping the car in the groove is not mentioned anywhere in the book) so Tony should have kept his mouth shut. Last year Wilkerson lost a championship that was HIS but the Pedrigons came in from last place and won because the rules allowed them to. Wilk didn't whine and make nasty statements about them....when the rules benefit them they love it, when they don't they cry "FOUL"...it's silly and hypocritical.

 

[lmhb oyf]

maybe Force would have been better off beating Robert in the semis so he could have been taken to task for taking a dive against Ashley in the finals instead.

Again, completely different situation and it's comparing apples to oranges.

Under your scenario that would have only affected JFR.

Sure the diving still would have been BS and perhaps been viewed as a rules violation and you're right, some would have b*tched.

The difference is that they were both comfortably in the countdown so it wouldn't have had critical points implications.

 

[cp]

This has nothing to do with politics (Obama) or ethnicity for cripes sakes....lets keep it out of that realm. I don't care for Force or the Pedrigons, and think it's silly on all fronts. Yea Force probably through the race, big deal, it's not his (or Heights) fault it came down to one round, if Cruz would have done a better job earlier in the year he would be middle pack and not concerned. Force is playing by the rules he was given, he raced the car without cheating (not keeping the car in the groove is not mentioned anywhere in the book) so Tony should have kept his mouth shut. Last year Wilkerson lost a championship that was HIS but the Pedrigons came in from last place and won because the rules allowed them to. Wilk didn't whine and make nasty statements about them....when the rules benefit them they love it, when they don't they cry "FOUL"...it's silly and hypocritical.

Amen...The Pedregons love to play the game, but when somebody else plays their own game and beats them at it; then it becomes cheating