Force and T Ped going at it in the shutdown? (2 Viewers)

[Dan]

All I saw on TV was two great drivers ending their friendship.

 

[.]

I lost all respect for both Pedregon brothers. And I hate to say it, but Mike Dunn also.

And I feel the exact opposite. I've lost almost all respect for Team Force, especially John. I used to really like the guy years ago but when he switched to Ford I didn't care for him so much. I still liked him though. Not any more!

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

All I saw on TV was two great drivers ending their friendship.

Truth be told it happened when Tony left. They were just both very civil about it publicly. Given the pent up frustrations from both sides, we all knew this would, one day, come to a head. Looks like today was the day.

 

[Frank]

I'm reading everyone's posts with great fascination and curiosity. As many of you may know, I worked on the NHRA TV coverage for 11 years and still write NHRA stories for ESPN The Magazine. I don't want to offer any opinions on what happened today since John, Tony, and Cruz are all old friends who I'll be catching up with in Charlotte in a couple of weeks.

Several years ago, I wrote an article for Drag Racer Magazine called "If It Ain't Broke, Fix It" and it dealt with team orders. At the time, I interviewed several owners and drivers. The bottom line is, team orders do exist and the bigger the race, the round, and the stakes, the more likely they will be employed by EVERY multi-car team. It's a fact of life. Even teams which in the past absolutely refused to utilize team orders have changed their policy.

I also posed the question at the time, "Are team orders wrong? Are they hurting the sport?" Again, you'll get many differing opinions on that question.

In researching the article, I also asked Don Schunmacher at the time a hypothetical question. If he had two cars racing each other in the final round of the year at the AAA Finals and one of his drivers needed to win the round to win the championship while the other had nothing at stake except the race victory, would he make a call. I respect Don for telling me with complete candor, "I would probably have to step in."

This is not 1965. You cannot drag race in a professional category like we used to with a few thousand bucks, some spare parts, and a clapped out pickup truck pulling a tag trailer. And those days aren't coming back. If that is enough to convince you to abandon the sport, that's your decision. But the rules of the game changed when it became necessary for teams to acquire millions of dollars to race in the pro classes. And don't think for a minute that every pro team isn't feeling some financial heat in this economy, especially when some of the NHRA's most successful and respected owners like Kenny Bernstein and Don Prudhomme have to go shopping for new deals

Let me also add this for those who feel what happened today in Indy will hurt the sport. In 1979, Richard Petty won the Daytona 500 while Cale Yarborough, and Bobby and Donnie Allison were having a fistfight on the backstretch on live CBS television coverage of the race. I worked for CBS Sports covering NASCAR between 1995 and 2001 and can tell you that to this day, the 1979 Daytona 500 is the one event, which more than any other, contributed to the massive growth in popularity NASCAR enjoyed following that incident. I have always been a strong believer that when the emotion, passion, unexpected, unscripted, and unpredictable all fail to remain vital elements of a motorsport, it is in real danger of declining in popularity. And in fact, you can say the same thing about ANY sport.

So consider the question I put to Don Schumacher. You have a multi-million dollar sponsorship agreement, a team of drivers, crew chiefs, mechanics, and support staff who you're employing and who are depending on their jobs to support themselves and their families. You've worked all season to get into a position to win a championship, which will strengthen the relationship with your sponsors, most likely adding revenue from the endorsements which are sure to come after winning a title, not to mention the pride and prestige you and your team will feel after reaching the highest goal the sport has to offer. It's the last round of the year and your two drivers are about to race--one for the championship and the other for the event win.

What would you do?

Bill,
Tony could have let Cruz beat him at Brainard and didn't. When Force decided to put Robert in his car to try to make the countdown, T Ped could have let C. Ped drive his car but didn't and DSR didn't let Matt Hagen drive Ron Capps' car either. Some team owners still believe in letting each team fend for themselves.

I understand the business side of drag racing. Why doesn't Force just say that instead of trying to BS everybody? Just say, "Hey it might not be right but I've got millions of dollars on the line so I'm going to let Robert win."

 

[TJ]

Regardless of J Force having 4 cars out of his camp, and a budget that trumps everyone else....Tony Pedregon is still your leader in points!

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

. . . I understand the business side of drag racing. Why doesn't Force just say that instead of trying to BS everybody? Just say, "Hey it might not be right but I've got millions of dollars on the line so I'm going to let Robert win."

That's exactly what I heard when he announced he was putting Robert in his own car.

 

[JHOLE]

Geeez, if you guys think this is any issue, you should have been around when drag racing was drag racing.

This is just pathetic. On every level. Pedrepunks, Farce, et al...

 

[Joker]

I have never liked the Ped's and today just proves why. Tony is the only driver thats ever driven for John that I never pulled for. That says alot right there being I'm a huge JFR fan. I'm just tired of hearing all the "we are the little guy" "we dont have as much $$$" "viva Mexico" "thanks to the hispanics" "its not fair" etc etc etc that continuosly flows from them.

Today just solidifies that. To call someone a cheater is wrong. Its not cheating. Do I like it when people throw races? Ofcourse not. I understand it though, and I would do the exact same thing. And so would any team owner with half a brain. And if anyone of us were team owners and didnt, then your not a good business man. Sure John got mad, I would have too. As far as fining him, he didnt touch him. He didnt swing at anyone that I saw. The only reason he touched any of the NHRA people is b/c they came and got between them. Personally, I wished John would have kicked TP's azz.

Tony must have forgot that we wouldnt even know who the hell he was if it wasnt for John Force. He didnt have any problems driving for John for 8 years winning a championship and earning enough $$$ to start his own team.

And while I'm on it, I lost all respect for Mike Dunn today as well. That was utterly ridiculous to keep going on about it. To me, if its anyone's fault, its NHRA's for having this fake azz clowndown championship to begin with, which by the way the Ped's both cheated the real pts champ the last 2 years.

 

[JF]

I have never liked the Ped's and today just proves why. Tony is the only driver thats ever driven for John that I never pulled for. That says alot right there being I'm a huge JFR fan. I'm just tired of hearing all the "we are the little guy" "we dont have as much $$$" "viva Mexico" "thanks to the hispanics" "its not fair" etc etc etc that continuosly flows from them.

Today just solidifies that. To call someone a cheater is wrong. Its not cheating. Do I like it when people throw races? Ofcourse not. I understand it though, and I would do the exact same thing. And so would any team owner with half a brain. And if anyone of us were team owners and didnt, then your not a good business man. Sure John got mad, I would have too. As far as fining him, he didnt touch him. He didnt swing at anyone that I saw. The only reason he touched any of the NHRA people is b/c they came and got between them. Personally, I wished John would have kicked TP's azz.

Tony must have forgot that we wouldnt even know who the hell he was if it wasnt for John Force. He didnt have any problems driving for John for 8 years winning a championship and earning enough $$$ to start his own team.

And while I'm on it, I lost all respect for Mike Dunn today as well. That was utterly ridiculous to keep going on about it. To me, if its anyone's fault, its NHRA's for having this fake azz clowndown championship to begin with, which by the way the Ped's both cheated the real pts champ the last 2 years.

For a business, Its the prudent thing to do.
For racing, its not what the sport was founded on. If I was racing and I won the countdown, I wouldn't want to think back to where any round that year was won by any other means then me just out running whoever it was.

 

[FABMAN]

John should be tossed out on his ass! Shoving track officials? Swinging at people? I don't care who you are, that sh1t should get you tossed. When I helped out some friends doing motorcycle roadracing even swearing at an official would get you tossed for the weekend. Behaving like John would have gotten you a minimum of a year suspension.

Hell, Nascar says this kind of activity is good for the sport, brings out the true competitiveness of the sport, Bring It On!

 

[The Little Lizard]

Bill,
Tony could have let Cruz beat him at Brainard and didn't. When Force decided to put Robert in his car to try to make the countdown, T Ped could have let C. Ped drive his car but didn't and DSR didn't let Matt Hagen drive Ron Capps' car either. Some team owners still believe in letting each team fend for themselves.

I understand the business side of drag racing. Why doesn't Force just say that instead of trying to BS everybody? Just say, "Hey it might not be right but I've got millions of dollars on the line so I'm going to let Robert win."

Someone give Frank Veloz a heat check, then turn on the sprinklers-HE'S ON FIRE!

 

[T.Smith]

Wow! I guess I left to early...and yes, Force should be ashamed.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

I just left our shop where my sons were building a couple engines after they watched the show. I asked their opinions and they both laughed about the scuffle and when they spoke about what both Tony and Cruz said to John, they had a pretty cute idea for John:

"Build a T/F dragster and put Franky Pedregon in it."

It's an hour later and I'm still laughing!

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

I just left our shop where my sons were building a couple engines after they watched the show. I asked their opinions and they both laughed about the scuffle and when they spoke about what both Tony and Cruz said to John, they had a pretty cute idea for John:

"Build a T/F dragster and put Franky Pedregon in it."

It's an hour later and I'm still laughing!

OMG!!!! That's funny sh!t right there! LMAO!!!

Sean D

 

[JF]

I just left our shop where my sons were building a couple engines after they watched the show. I asked their opinions and they both laughed about the scuffle and when they spoke about what both Tony and Cruz said to John, they had a pretty cute idea for John:

"Build a T/F dragster and put Franky Pedregon in it."

It's an hour later and I'm still laughing!

He could do like Jack Roush did in Nascar and have a team owned by his wife. He could then get four more F/C and have 50% of the class. John would own Four cars and his wife Four more.

 

[90-percent]

Calling someone a cripple in this age is kind of insensitive and offensive and inflammatory, in my opinion.

I recall at Reading around 2001 when a grandmother coaxed her autistic or retarded grandson over to talk to Tony P. He was so generous and gracious and loving, I found the moment quite touching and I was impressed with Tony's compassion. There was no crowd and no media, just a gracious public figure trying to bring some happiness into a less fortunate life.

Think of how that grandson might feel right this minute if he had watched Tony using that term on TV?

Perhaps Tony really wanted to get john's goat and come up with the most inflammatory comment possible, that word could have been it?

But, like my safety teacher told us in college, the first one to loose their temper in a dispute is the automatic loser.

Hey, maybe Tony was projecting about having a straight up race with Cruz at Brainerd and beating him? Perhaps he is questioning the wisdom of that decision right about now?

The BIG RACE is the points Championship and team strategy will always be a factor. When fielding a team like Force's, it is probably better for the entire team to loose a battle to, in the end, win the War.

I don't think there's any right or wrong here, or any hero or villain. It's just intense people doing battle and becoming more human under the pressures of their chosen livelihood.

And this is what, the 9th or 10th page of posts on this subject? You couldn't get ten pages on canned sponsor plugs after a race, now could you?

Now, if this was scripted, then we've got WWE. I don't think this was scripted in the least. Nice to see real emotions, here. Our hero's are just like all of us after all.

Or maybe just give up the pretense and say it the way Connie Kallita said it when faced with a team decision? I don't think his honesty offended too many fans, did it?

-90% jimmy

PS - I've worked very long and hard at controlling and managing my anger, as I'm sure many others here have. So, I'm pretty mellow but I've found I have a breaking point. If I'm getting bullied in a work situation, or any situation, I can go ballistic and completely loose my self control. Once every three to eight years, perhaps. I was bullied somewhat as a kid, and some times I back down, and some times I do not. I've come within moments of being fired when bullied by my direct boss. In that moment I surrendered and went back to yes sir no sir mode, and kept my job for a few more years.

Bullies are my hair trigger. The word "cripple" may be Force's.

PPS - nice to see Bill Stephens here. Thanks for your thoughts, Bill. A professional journalist is steeped in the craft of professional reporting and cannot go beyond the rules of professional journalism like the rest of us. Your insights are valued and respected, Bill.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Wow! I guess I left to early...and yes, Force should be ashamed.

Oh Tony, please stop yourself!

 

[Billy]

Bill,
Tony could have let Cruz beat him at Brainard and didn't. When Force decided to put Robert in his car to try to make the countdown, T Ped could have let C. Ped drive his car but didn't and DSR didn't let Matt Hagen drive Ron Capps' car either. Some team owners still believe in letting each team fend for themselves.

I understand the business side of drag racing. Why doesn't Force just say that instead of trying to BS everybody? Just say, "Hey it might not be right but I've got millions of dollars on the line so I'm going to let Robert win."

I'm aware of the examples you cite. In none of those examples was the championship directly on the line. I will go back to my original question which I posed to Don Schumacher. Teams DO use team orders but when and where they use them may vary. But I know of no team owner in the sport who would tell his drivers to "just race" when the title hangs in the balance and the outcome of the matchup could give the championship to another team.

 

[Kevin]

To get back to the origin of today's 'Shutdown Throw Down', might NHRA consider how to go about actually enforcing the no team orders rule?

Not like this is the frst time team orders have appeared to be in place.

And if it's unenforceable should the rule be on the books?

 

[haagar]

He could do like Jack Roush did in Nascar and have a team owned by his wife. He could then get four more F/C and have 50% of the class. John would own Four cars and his wife Four more.

"'Owner group' shall mean (1) the same individual or entity; (2) two ore more affiliated individuals and/or entities (related by partnership, corporate affiliation, familial affiliation, marriage... Penalties for failure to comply with such a request for information, for attempting to camouflage ownership, or for otherwise attempting to circumvent or circumventing or not complying with this rule shall be imposed by NHRA..."

Page 39 of the rulebook.