mike
Nitro Member
<snip a bunch of great stuff> Things change--sometimes for the better and sometimes not. But they change.
Great post Mr. Stephens!
it's no wonder folks pay you for what you have to say

<snip a bunch of great stuff> Things change--sometimes for the better and sometimes not. But they change.
Sorry.. they are trouble makers & poor sports!.. send them back to their "Home Country" then they can win everything in sight! Maybe Obama will even sponsor them with stimulus $$
This goes back to the alleged favoritism shown to John Force racing in allowing Robert to drive John's car at a test session in Brainerd.
Now we know why! OMG Tony- how in the world can he stand there and cry about John throwing the race? And further- how is NHRA going to police that anyway? Let Olson look at the computer and disqualify from looking at the data? If the tables were turned and it was Cruz that needed the round? Would Tony throw the run?
TPed can probably answer that. Seems to have been pretty good for him.How can you feel any pride in a race or championship won with team orders?
Sean D
anytime you have huge corporations dictating who should lose and who should win on a team. you cheapen the sport. it is then nothing more than reality tv. don't call it racing. because it isn'tI politely disagree with your assertions, Charles. The issue IS with John Force, Tony Pedregon, and Don Schumacher. They are team owners and because of the responsibility they bear to do everything within reason to win the championship, they employ team orders in instances where the risks are too great to leave the outcome to chance. I'm not here to defend the ethical ramifications of that. All I know is that until any of us find ourselves in a situation where several millions of dollars are hanging in the balance, we can prattle on about the indecency of team orders all we want with little danger of losing a dime. Let me also be clear as you were and I appreciate your thoughtful opinion.
If the corporations. the bosses, the owners are telling you to break the rules by diving. its nothing more than corruption.The racers have a boss. It's the team owner. The team owner has a boss. It's the sponsor. No sponsor on the face of the earth is ever going to tell a team owner not to employ team orders. At the end of the year, no sponsor is going to tell a team owner, "Well, you had a chance to win the championship but, by golly, you didn't issue any team orders and the Brand X guys won the title. But we're so proud of you, we'll sponsor you again next year because, Good Galoshes, you race the old fashioned way".
Unfortunate that you and the 'fans' as you call them accept the moral and ethical standards of corporations like enron, Exxon, The banking industry. the medoffs of the world. yes lets bring those values into what was once a sport. its all about the dollars. Nothing to do with racing anymore. please don't insult my intelligence and claim its a sport. its entertainment and nothing more. .In reality, Corporate America issues team orders in their own universe every day (especially on Wall St.) so having the race team they sponsor use them as well is no disgrace to them. Can we disagree on the ethical impact of team orders? Yes, but I don't believe they cheapen the sport because it's a tool that all the multi-car teams (in every racing series)use when they deem it necessary and, despite them, professional motorsports continue to command millions of fans worldwide. Most savvy racing fans view team orders as a tactical element to the sport. What would unquestionably cheapen the sport would be team orders issued between competing teams. Now you've got real problems.
yes its all perfectly clear. money talks. racing walksNo fan wants to think the outcome of any race is predetermined. But when you weigh the alternatives, such as multi-car teams losing their sponsors, car counts dwindling even more than they have, and fewer team owners willing to take on the financial risks of allowing a championship to evade their grasp because of a reluctance to employ a strategy his opponents make use of, the choice becomes more clear.
maybe one or two cars per team maximum. the money and available sponsorships can be spread amongst 16 or more separate and unrelated team owners. the extended force family drivers can drive for different teams.If you can create a 100% ironclad method of determining whether team orders have been employed, the NHRA is listening. Examining post-race data is not going to infallibly uncover a smoking gun no matter how skilled the investigator. There are so many ways to sabotage a run--either from the driver side of the equation or the mechanical side--that it's ludicrous to argue the point. And all it would take is one wrong decision by the sanctioning body as to whether a race was thrown to cause a firestorm of protests from team after team whenever a ruling was handed down. And THAT would cheapen the sport to such a degree that who would even take the risk of being accused of an infraction when there may have been no premeditated behavior whatsoever on their part?
now that we have established what you describe above is not drag racing. we can dispense with this nonsense and call it what it is. reality TV corporate prostitution. what you call a "championship" isn't. all the championship wally represents now is a marker for who can gather up the most corporate dollars during a season, and then follow the conditions dictated by those sponsorship dollars even including cheating, which you say every multi car team does. and get away with it. You don't have to wonder why the sports media doesn't take racing seriously. because it's not a sport. Its entertainment that the prostitute must pay ESPN to broadcast for them. don't bother attempting to convince the media that something that is scripted is a sport. it aint. and never will be,I'm reminded of the old story of the man who asked the woman if she would have sex with him for $50. She said, "No, I won't". Then he asked her if she would have sex with him for $100,000. She said, "For $100,000 I would." He then said, "Now that we've established what you are, all we need to discuss is the price". Every multi-car team employs team orders, and in the big picture, it underscores one of the main reasons for having one in the first place. NASCAR does it, F-1 does it, NHRA drag racing does it. The fans keep buying tickets, watching the TV coverage, and spending $$$ on hats, T-shirts, and diecast cars. Sponsors want championships and all the TV exposure that winning championships buys them. I remember when team orders were the definition of evil. I also remember when artificial turf, the designated hitter, expansion teams, the 3-point shot, moving the goalposts to the back of the end zone, merging the NFL and the AFL, the 75-minute between-round rule, hockey helmets, collective bargaining, and the salary cap were all going to be our downfalls. Things change--sometimes for the better and sometimes not. But they change.
I'm reading everyone's posts with great fascination and curiosity. As many of you may know, I worked on the NHRA TV coverage for 11 years and still write NHRA stories for ESPN The Magazine. I don't want to offer any opinions on what happened today since John, Tony, and Cruz are all old friends who I'll be catching up with in Charlotte in a couple of weeks.
Several years ago, I wrote an article for Drag Racer Magazine called "If It Ain't Broke, Fix It" and it dealt with team orders. At the time, I interviewed several owners and drivers. The bottom line is, team orders do exist and the bigger the race, the round, and the stakes, the more likely they will be employed by EVERY multi-car team. It's a fact of life. Even teams which in the past absolutely refused to utilize team orders have changed their policy.
I also posed the question at the time, "Are team orders wrong? Are they hurting the sport?" Again, you'll get many differing opinions on that question.
In researching the article, I also asked Don Schunmacher at the time a hypothetical question. If he had two cars racing each other in the final round of the year at the AAA Finals and one of his drivers needed to win the round to win the championship while the other had nothing at stake except the race victory, would he make a call. I respect Don for telling me with complete candor, "I would probably have to step in."
This is not 1965. You cannot drag race in a professional category like we used to with a few thousand bucks, some spare parts, and a clapped out pickup truck pulling a tag trailer. And those days aren't coming back. If that is enough to convince you to abandon the sport, that's your decision. But the rules of the game changed when it became necessary for teams to acquire millions of dollars to race in the pro classes. And don't think for a minute that every pro team isn't feeling some financial heat in this economy, especially when some of the NHRA's most successful and respected owners like Kenny Bernstein and Don Prudhomme have to go shopping for new deals
Let me also add this for those who feel what happened today in Indy will hurt the sport. In 1979, Richard Petty won the Daytona 500 while Cale Yarborough, and Bobby and Donnie Allison were having a fistfight on the backstretch on live CBS television coverage of the race. I worked for CBS Sports covering NASCAR between 1995 and 2001 and can tell you that to this day, the 1979 Daytona 500 is the one event, which more than any other, contributed to the massive growth in popularity NASCAR enjoyed following that incident. I have always been a strong believer that when the emotion, passion, unexpected, unscripted, and unpredictable all fail to remain vital elements of a motorsport, it is in real danger of declining in popularity. And in fact, you can say the same thing about ANY sport.
So consider the question I put to Don Schumacher. You have a multi-million dollar sponsorship agreement, a team of drivers, crew chiefs, mechanics, and support staff who you're employing and who are depending on their jobs to support themselves and their families. You've worked all season to get into a position to win a championship, which will strengthen the relationship with your sponsors, most likely adding revenue from the endorsements which are sure to come after winning a title, not to mention the pride and prestige you and your team will feel after reaching the highest goal the sport has to offer. It's the last round of the year and your two drivers are about to race--one for the championship and the other for the event win.
What would you do?
Bob,
if you look at 28 seconds into the video, you can clearly see that Tony reached out and pushed John -- and that's why John took his hat off and slammed it down to the ground.
And Tony was hardly calm, cool, and collected. He exuded arrogance, and he knew EXACTLY what he was doing.
TPed can probably answer that. Seems to have been pretty good for him.
Take that t-ped!!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Ashley kicked his A$$