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Force and T Ped going at it in the shutdown? (2 Viewers)

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They were probably counting on Cruz's car to run good, and Roberts car to continue having problems at Indy. Cruz admitted that he stole the championship from Wilkerson last year, and now the Ped brothers start crying when the 10th place in the countdown get stolen from them.
Way different deal there Kenneth, Cruz won the championship because of the countdown. The same reason that Wilkerson lost it.

This is about intentionally manipulating an outcome. Cruz did nothing wrong in 2008 except win a couple of races in the countdown.
 
Taking one for team is obviously no stranger to happening, remember in 2nd Topeka 1996 when a Rookie Angelle was to race the late John Myers in the finals and Angelle gave John the single so John would stay in the points hunt with Dave Schultz, well in the End Dave Still won the championship in the last race when I do believe John lost to Stephanie Reeves in R1 @ the Finals. Coincidence.
 
Way different deal there Kenneth, Cruz won the championship because of the countdown. The same reason that Wilkerson lost it.

This is about intentionally manipulating an outcome. Cruz did nothing wrong in 2008 except win a couple of races in the countdown.


The NHRA is intentionally manipulating outcome(s) with the countdown (look at everyone who got screwed by it, Wilkerson, Fuller, etc), they came up with the countdown to create stupid drama in something that doesn't need it, there's already plenty of shows on tv for people who want drama.
 
Apparently everyone missed this... It should put all the discussion about wether or not he took a dive for the team to rest.

Looks like he learned a lesson from KJ. :)


jforce_sponsor.jpg
 
Found this in my morning email, from a friend who has followed drag racing longer than....... well, forever.

Seems to me several years ago when that girl who didn't have a ride drove someone else backup bike, and turned out she had the best bike that day, but was a no show in the final round so she didn' beat him. Lots of behotchin' about that, but NHRA said there were rules about ya had to have a valid driver license, a legal car, and a hundred other things, but there was no rule that said you had to try to win. I liked it that way. If you want to spend a million dollars on a race car and not race it, that's your business. Why on earth would NHRA even want a rule they can't enforce without being wrong half the time to half the people.
 
I'd like to add one more point in response to some of the vilification I'm reading about "Big Business" and how its ruining the sport. This was yet another aspect of the Drag Racer Magazine article I wrote which I mentioned in an earlier post. Anyone who believes any major league motorsport can survive without a huge involvement by Corporate America is naive at best and in denial at worst. If you want to debate the moral or ethical shortfalls of the businesses which bankroll all motorsports, be my guest. I'll sit that one out.

The nation's energy companies have veritable monopolies and essentially no competition in the field of public utilities. Their record of environmental atrocities is well documented. Elderly people have frozen to death in major cities in their ramshackle apartments because their heat was shut off due to non-payment. Oil prices go up and down at the whim of petroleum speculators with scant relevance to the Law of Supply and Demand. Having said that, we all expect our furnaces to go on every time we turn up our thermostats, we expect the lamps in our houses to go on when we turn on our light switches, and we expect to turn on our TV's and watch ESPN's drag racing coverage thanks to our cable system. Bottom line? Many of the everyday comforts we require and enjoy--including the entertainment we receive from following drag racing--are made possible by Big Business. Hate them if you must for all their deplorable price-gouging tactics but would you and your families rather live in unheated, unlit, and unsafe squalor as a sign of disapproval? If so, perhaps we should all join an Amish commune.

Now, just for the sake of argument, let's get rid of all of the big corporate partnerships in drag racing. Poof! They're gone. Now let's see the hands of all the professional team owners who will continue to field a nitro team for $2-$4 million dollars a year out of their own pockets. Anyone? No? OK, so maybe we can still go racing with wealthy privateers who can afford to use their own resources to race. Let's see, I see Fred Funderdunk of Funderdunk Frisbees putting his Top Fuel team together. Marvin Weaselquist is onboard with his Funny Car team with "Crazy" Humphrey Hoolihan driving. But wait...where's Don Schumacher, Kenny Bernstein, John Force, Don Prudhomme? Where are the real stars? Sorry, they just checked out.

OK, we'll have a national event anyway. Ticket prices? Well, because there are no corporate partners and the NHRA needs to pay for their staff, prize money, advertising, event insurance, security, championship purses, etc., fans will now be paying $500 to come and see that new Funderdunk team and "Crazy" Humphrey do their thing. And let's put a TV package together. Funny, why won't ESPN return our calls? Could it be they know we can't afford the $300,000 per race production costs involved and they know the TV ratings will be non-existent without the biggest stars in the sport competing?

And what about all those aftermarket companies which draw their livlihoods from drag racing? Well, no sponsors mean teams can't afford to buy new parts so you can kiss those vendors goodbye. And safety? Didn't you know safety costs money? No sponsors mean no research and development on chassis, fire, or tire safety. A track owner is looking at expanding the shutdown area, building safer retaining walls, or adding better lighting for night racing. In the "old days", he could go to his list of sponsors purchasing signage at his track or buying vendor space on his Manufacturer's Midway and get them to pony up a little to make those much-needed improvements. Not now. We kicked all those no good corporate crooks out on their butts.

So with all due respect, please don't try to sell the idea that drag racing is such a pristine and noble venture which has been forever tainted by the "greedy" business community. The sport you're watching today wouldn't be there if countless numbers of corporate entities didn't see a financial payback in drag racing. Trust me--the overwhelming majority of those companies aren't out there because they "love the sport". They're out there because it's profitable and when it stops being profitable, they'll go find something else that is. That's how business works and no amount of romanticizing about major league drag racing will change that.

Finally, anyone who says drag racing is not a sport because of the way the business dynamic has come into play is totally overlooking one important fact. Despite the reality that the financial necessities of competing in the NHRA have changed greatly in the past 50 years, men and women are still strapping themselves into enormously powerful machines, devoting their skills and talents to winning races and championships for their team, risking their lives on every pass, celebrating when they win and suffering the disappointment when they lose. I've spent a lot of time talking to racers in just about every professional series in this country: NHRA, NASCAR, Champ Car, IRL, etc. They all know the game and just like any other team sport, they understand individual achievement has to take a back seat to doing what's right for the team as a whole. For some, that's a tough pill to swallow but so is going through an entire career and never having experienced the jubilation of winning a world championship.

I feel like I'm sermonizing and that's not my intent. The biggest threat to professional drag racing at this moment in history isn't team orders, shouting matches in the shutdown area, or owners fielding too many cars. Rather, the biggest threat is Corporate America being disenchanted with drag racing in a motorsports world which is still NASCAR-centric. Whatever we can do to give corporate sponsors a venue that makes economic sense to them and help direct more financial resources to team owners, the NHRA, and the satellite businesses which base their survival on drag racing's appeal, I believe, are efforts worth making.
 
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don't like hypocrites who will accept a job and a salary for 8 years doing the same thing and then when it works against him, cry foul.

So that makes it alright for John "NHRA" Force to circumvent the rules? Everytime i hear that same old tired ass line of Tony worked there for 8 years he must not have cared.. Well all that really shows is John Force has been manipulating the game for a very long time.. John is the one who gives the final order to dive or not dive..


As for your I dont like hypocrites I would rather have one of them then a lier .
 
So that makes it alright for John "NHRA" Force to circumvent the rules? Everytime i hear that same old tired ass line of Tony worked there for 8 years he must not have cared.. Well all that really shows is John Force has been manipulating the game for a very long time.. John is the one who gives the final order to dive or not dive..


As for your I dont like hypocrites I would rather have one of them then a lier .


disagree .. doesn't take much of a spine to call someone out on the carpet after the fact. If you don't like the diving, then go get a different ride. But to use it to win yourself a championship, then complain about it is bush league.

Furthermore .. if the situation had been reversed, would Cruz have taken a dive for Tony .. my guess is yes.
 
To use Brainerd as an example of Tony having an opportunity to take a dive for his brother and choosing not to do so may be a failed premise. Tony needed that win badly. He needed to prove to his sponsors and employees that he could win without Dickie.
 
Excellent Theatre. The way I see it. all participants, all wrong on very large levels.

I don't really believe T-Ped was representing the fans, or the integredy of the sport, anymore than I believe Force wouldn't toss a race. At the end of the day, both have overwhelming personal interests and are motivated by such.

Force needs thicker skin, The Bros., STFU!
 
I must admit this thread has been very interesting to read, so here is my .02 worth. If you want to witness pure sportsmanship--go watch a little league baseball game or a local bracket race. As one writer stated earlier, the days of being able to compete with a clapped out pick up truck and a tag trailer are gone--AND THEY AINT COMING BACK!!! Personally, I think it SUCKS--but just like government corruption, global warming, world peace, and those da*n PRESS ONE FOR ENGLISH deals, there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. If I had found myself in John Force's shoes, and was faced with the possibility of losing my sponsorship if the AAA car didnt make the countdown, I am reasonably sure I would have done exactly what John did (EXCUSE ME, JOHN--allegedly did). And I have a feeling that lots of others (if they were HONEST about it--see Don Schumacher's comments as quoted earlier in the thread) would have done exactly the same. Amazing how easy it is to throw stones when all you have invested is your opinion. MONEY may well ruin everything, but rest assured MONEY will always run everything. Motorsports at the highest level is a BUSINESS. And, as a former employee once told me "FRIENDS IS FRIENDS AND BUSINESS IS BUSINESS---AND IF YOU WANT A FREIND, BUY A DOG" Nuff said:cool:
 
I did'nt read the entire thread.

If I had to throw a lap, I'd probably cut the blower belt so it broke on the burnout or early in the run.
 
It is tough to say whether Tony would lay down for Cruz or not. In Reading, I talked to his crew about it, and they said they planned to raceheads up in Brainerd (obv.). Think about it this way for Tony... He is basically on a race-to-race basis with sponsors, and if he has a sponsor on board for that one race in Brainerd, do you think they would be happy if he purposely lost? Tony had to race for business reasons, to keep his sponsor happy. John had to give up against Robert Hight for business reasons.

It is all about business folks, because without the $$$ coming in from sponsors, this sport goes nowhere.
 
I must admit this thread has been very interesting to read, so here is my .02 worth. If you want to witness pure sportsmanship--go watch a little league baseball game or a local bracket race...

Just got back from the D7 Junior Divisional in Vegas (yeah- Emmett went rounds :)) , and you are absolutly right Mike- sort of. You want to see pure sportsmanship, check out other aspects of the sport- Juniors are a good example of that. Handshakes before the water box; high fives at the top end. But I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that when these kids have to go MAKE A LIVING at this sport, that kind of stuff starts to fade as the pressure cooker gets hot. We already see it when the kids age out and start running Sportsman or serious brackets- little tykes that were cute at 10-12 are pretty gritty by 20-22..

Its the nature of business and life in general- stuff gets tougher the longer you play, and you have to have a thicker skin (but not necessarilly a more competitive spirit) to hang tough in the big leagues.

I'm just reading this whole thread, and seems like the pressure cooker is boiling over in 2 camps that are in the rare air of Nitro Funny Car racing: Not many other teams have been able to fly the #1 and get the big check in that class for over 15 years now. This is a battle of the best two teams out there, and we just got a peek into the ugly underbelly of how the real champions play the game.

Don't like that? Sorry- these two teams have PROVED what it takes to win World Championships. And if you didn't like what you saw, lump this experience in the same catagory with other things you should avoid knowing how their made- sausages and laws.... ;)
 
I was at the race, and they briefly put the shouting match on the big screen ... then cut away from it and Bob Frey said to make sure we caught the ESPN2 coverage when we got home. Reinhart and others hinted around to it later in the day. And that was it.

I was under the assumption it was no big deal until after the race we were wandering around the pits, just watching guys pack the stuff away and there was a crowd at Mike Ashley racing ... went over and they were watching the conflagration on the big screeens in the MATCO hospitality tent. It was only then that I realized this was a bigger deal than we were lead to believe ...

The way I see it ... everyone is going to do it (take a dive) and everyone is going to cry when it gets done to them.

Lastly, for everyone citing the '79 Daytona 500 as the catalyst for NASCAR, there was an extraordinary set of circumstances that cannot possibly be duplicated. At that time, less than 10% of Americans had more than 4 channels of TV, now I have 200 I never watch. The 500 is in February, and there was a massive snowstorm from DC all they way up to Boston, locking almost half the population in on that Sunday to watch that race from sunny Florida. It's not like they had other choices on the TV dial. Lastly, the race was REAL GOOD. Allison and Yarborough were in the lead and banging each other quite a bit, everyone could feel the drama build and see the wreck coming many laps before it happened.

Will we get a ratings bump because of the shouting match? Maybe. Is the ESPN2 TV package good enuff to keep them watching? Probably not.
 
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overheard at Indy?

10 year old kid with John Force hat and shirt on: "Dad what just happened, the car just went to the right."

Dad: "Son, despite the fact that you've been looking forward to seeing John race for the first time in person, and we spent $300 to get here and tickets...well, John had to throw that race to let Robert Hight into the Countdown."

10 year old kid: "But why?, John intentionally lost? I thought he was a CHAMPION, I was looking forward to this all year."


Explanation?
 
Ok my .02 cents.
First, I believed that it was rumored that if the AAA car did not make the countdown(BS) that they would not fund it for the rest of the year. I don't agree with diving but if the rumor was true, what would you do. Lay off the team, fund it yourself, or take a dive and get that team into the countdown?
Second, I think John reaction was more from who was accusing him. I once had a dog I feed and took care of and one morning he decided to bite me. May that dog rest in peace.
 
Overheard at Major League Baseball game:

10-year-old boy wearing T-shirt and cap of (Choose one: Barry Bonds, Alex Rodriquez, Jose Canseco, Mark McGwire) "I hope (one of the above players) hits a home run today. They're my favorite player!"

Dad: "Well, (player) is a great hitter but a lot of the home runs he hit were helped along by the performance enhancing drugs he took."

10-year-old-boy: "You mean (player) was taking steroids so the ball would go farther when he hit it? But he's a big league player!"

Overheard at NFL football game:

10-year-old boy (wearing New York Giants T-shirt and cap): "I can't wait to see Plaxico Burress catch a touchdown pass today. He's a great wide receiver and my favorite player!

Dad: "Well, Plaxico won't be playing today. He was sent to prison for accidentally shooting himself with an unregistered handgun."

10-year-old boy: "He's a criminal? How can that be? He's a Super Bowl champion!

Overheard at NASCAR race:

10-year-old boy (wearing Jeremy Mayfield T-shirt and cap): "I hope Jeremy Mayfield wins the race today! He's my favorite driver!"

Dad: "Well, Jeremy won't be racing today and may not be back for a long time. He failed a random drug test and was suspended for substance abuse by NASCAR.

10-year-old boy: "Jeremy Mayfield was using drugs? How can that be? He's one of the best drivers out there!"

Explanation? Even our heroes are only human. We all are.
 
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