What Do You Expect from the Mater? (1 Viewer)

[clwill]

There is a thread here, since closed, that got a little ugly and caused one of the few remaining active professional posters to want to leave the Mater. But in reviewing it, I (and I assume other mods) are just not sure what we can/should have done. Were there specific posts that should have been removed? People were expressing their opinion about the cause for an event, should they have been admonished?

And then there's the concern that Jon Asher raises about "places to trust" on the net. It's important to understand the distinction between a news source and an open forum. Compplus, for example, is both: with a news section and a public forum. The former is carefully fact-checked, expertly written, and judiciously edited. The latter is, ... well ..., not. It is, at times, certainly no better than the Yellow Bullet at times for the civility of discourse.

The Mater, with the enforcement of real names, strives to get to some middle ground. Expressions of opinions don't always have to be backed with fact-checked info, but you at least know the source. The mods try to keep discussions on topic (something I, admittedly, don't always excel at). But we actively don't limit people from expressing their opinion, even if it's not always positive and constructive. We worry that doing so would turn this into little more than a press-release publishing mechanism.

So the larger question is, what do you expect from the Mater? What do you want to have in your internet drag racing forum? Shannon is shortly going to convert the Mater to all new (and very cool) software, now's a great time to get your input in on what the Mater should be.

 

[SundayNiagara]

There is a thread here, since closed, that got a little ugly and caused one of the few remaining active professional posters to want to leave the Mater. But in reviewing it, I (and I assume other mods) are just not sure what we can/should have done. Were there specific posts that should have been removed? People were expressing their opinion about the cause for an event, should they have been admonished?

And then there's the concern that Jon Asher raises about "places to trust" on the net. It's important to understand the distinction between a news source and an open forum. Compplus, for example, is both: with a news section and a public forum. The former is carefully fact-checked, expertly written, and judiciously edited. The latter is, ... well ..., not. It is, at times, certainly no better than the Yellow Bullet at times for the civility of discourse.

The Mater, with the enforcement of real names, strives to get to some middle ground. Expressions of opinions don't always have to be backed with fact-checked info, but you at least know the source. The mods try to keep discussions on topic (something I, admittedly, don't always excel at). But we actively don't limit people from expressing their opinion, even if it's not always positive and constructive. We worry that doing so would turn this into little more than a press-release publishing mechanism.

So the larger question is, what do you expect from the Mater? What do you want to have in your internet drag racing forum? Shannon is shortly going to convert the Mater to all new (and very cool) software, now's a great time to get your input in on what the Mater should be.

How about truly open discussions, (without name-calling, etc.) about the state of the sport and the people involved in it. If some thin-skinned driver, etc., gets his or her nose out of joint and decides to vacate the premises, so be it.

 

[Nick Name]

A couple of years ago, they were going to have a section on here for people actually involved in the racing industry. Racers, aftermarket people, etc. Not fans.

They still need to do this. Leave the current board as a fan board, and have a racer board that Don and the other can come back into and have real dialog.

 

[Toejam]

What thread are you referring too? I have been on this site for over 10 years, and the same people who cry Foul at the so-called insults and vulgar comments on here cry when it comes to censorship! Either you believe in Free speech or you don't! As far as racers not coming on her because they "Might" get insulted, stay off the computer! If someones comments are offensive to you, stay off the Internet! The Racers who do confront someone's comments directed at them usually win the day! To bad most won't own up to that challenge!

 

[SundayNiagara]

A couple of years ago, they were going to have a section on here for people actually involved in the racing industry. Racers, aftermarket people, etc. Not fans.

They still need to do this. Leave the current board as a fan board, and have a racer board that Don and the other can come back into and have real dialog.

Nope, you can't have them separate!

 

[d'kid]

The main problem with the written word as opposed to speaking face to face is the lack of body language, voice inflections, and sometimes, even the time lag between what is typed and how it is interrupted... and spelling errors and basic use of english.

The use of little smiley faces don't really cut it... some of us have a very dry sense of humor...

I find I do form my opinions from Bobby's, Jeff's, Rob's, WFO, what I hear on the Audiocast, and what I see on broadcast. And, after all is said and done, this is an option board...

I have seen some 'bitter' posts over the years, some where my reaction more than anything else, as my kids used to say is 'what's your trauma?' And I keep hearing my dad's voice, 'do the responsible thing, don't go chasing pipe dreams...' and I think I just found myself doing something that makes 'boards' and typing posts tricky... my mind is going faster than my finger types, and I'm only getting the first sentence of a thought on the post....


and just these few paragraphs took 12 minutes to type... the speed of a one finger typer that has to look at the keyboard....


d'kid

 

[Rat]

I am glad this thread is up. If you make it seperate too confusing. What should of been done is that some users should of been talked to. Now wait a second before any one goes crazy on that! Here is my version of what the site should be and what group should do what:

Members:
1. Threads:
Good: Questions, Facts, Unsure rumors, Interesting points
Bad: Ones targeted at defaming someone, Any topics stated in a way a criticism and not a question or a point but more a direct insult that is unsupported with open views.

2. Responses:
Good: Answering to the questions, facts, or rumors, and adding more of the same or contributing interesting points to the conversation.
Bad: 1. Insulting, ESPECIALLY INSULTING THE BUSINESS MAN OVER AN ACTION WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEAK ABOUT other than to state the confirmed facts.
2. Insulting other members, Not just "i don't like your point of view" but more like "your a stupid moron for feeling the way you do." TO SOME MEMBERS OUT THERE, THERE ARE WAYS TO DISAGREE WITHOUT INSULTING PEOPLE FOR THEIR VIEWS OR ACTIONS.
3. WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE FACTS ABOUT SOMETHING, AND HAVE NO WAY OF EVER GETTING THE FACTS, DON'T INSULT BASED ON WHAT WILL NEVER BE MADE PUBLIC TO YOU.

MODERATORS:

Only 1 tip cause you do a great job based on how this site used to be.

1. Anyone is allowed to express their point of view and to express anything they feel about the issue. It's free speech. Although, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ISSUE A VIOLATION TO A MEMEBER IF THEIR VIEW IS NOT EXPRESSED IN WAY THAT APPEARS TO BE A PERSON TARGET TO WHAT SOMEONE SAID OR DID.

Don't worry about "i disagree, that was not right, or i dont like them" worry about name calling and if someone tries to mock a view or insult for the way they view.

FOR ALL:

Response should only be to agree, disagee, add in your own point without trying to win a war just because they don't feel the same as you. I mean let's face it, everyone will have ill feelings about someone if they need to be expressed type them in a neutral matter.

EXAMPLE OF What Should Be Seen: (UNBIASED, Leave out all facts)

Topic: I heard a rumor schumacher fired capps

Response 1: Really, wow
Response 2: It's Business And Economics
Response 3: Maybe a better chance elsewhere
Response 4: He's Old
Response 5: Schumacher Hated Him
Response 6: Capps Hated Don And Is Happy To Go
Response 7: Schumacher is a &^*@&@(!8

Response 7 should be thrown off the site, response 5 and 6 should be given warnings. Response 5 and 6 could of been ok if it started with a maybe instead of a quick attack. Response 7 will not be tolerated at all.

Violation Idea:
In violation of any of what i stated:

Yellow violation: A Week off the site and your name is not functional to log in
Black violation: A month off the site and your name is not functional to log in

You can e-mail a moderater for an appeal and moderater can then overturn it or keep it and also if it does not go well here's what's next:

Red Violation: Anyone like response 7 or insults directly anyone without presenting it in a non harsh thought out arguement.

feedback?

 

[SundayNiagara]

I am glad this thread is up. If you make it seperate too confusing. What should of been done is that some users should of been talked to. Now wait a second before any one goes crazy on that! Here is my version of what the site should be and what group should do what:

Members:
1. Threads:
Good: Questions, Facts, Unsure rumors, Interesting points
Bad: Ones targeted at defaming someone, Any topics stated in a way a criticism and not a question or a point but more a direct insult that is unsupported with open views.

2. Responses:
Good: Answering to the questions, facts, or rumors, and adding more of the same or contributing interesting points to the conversation.
Bad: 1. Insulting, ESPECIALLY INSULTING THE BUSINESS MAN OVER AN ACTION WE HAVE NO RIGHT TO SPEAK ABOUT other than to state the confirmed facts.
2. Insulting other members, Not just "i don't like your point of view" but more like "your a stupid moron for feeling the way you do." TO SOME MEMBERS OUT THERE, THERE ARE WAYS TO DISAGREE WITHOUT INSULTING PEOPLE FOR THEIR VIEWS OR ACTIONS.
3. WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE THE FACTS ABOUT SOMETHING, AND HAVE NO WAY OF EVER GETTING THE FACTS, DON'T INSULT BASED ON WHAT WILL NEVER BE MADE PUBLIC TO YOU.

MODERATORS:

Only 1 tip cause you do a great job based on how this site used to be.

1. Anyone is allowed to express their point of view and to express anything they feel about the issue. It's free speech. Although, DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ISSUE A VIOLATION TO A MEMEBER IF THEIR VIEW IS NOT EXPRESSED IN WAY THAT APPEARS TO BE A PERSON TARGET TO WHAT SOMEONE SAID OR DID.

Don't worry about "i disagree, that was not right, or i dont like them" worry about name calling and if someone tries to mock a view or insult for the way they view.

FOR ALL:

Response should only be to agree, disagee, add in your own point without trying to win a war just because they don't feel the same as you. I mean let's face it, everyone will have ill feelings about someone if they need to be expressed type them in a neutral matter.

EXAMPLE OF What Should Be Seen: (UNBIASED, Leave out all facts)

Topic: I heard a rumor schumacher fired capps

Response 1: Really, wow
Response 2: It's Business And Economics
Response 3: Maybe a better chance elsewhere
Response 4: He's Old
Response 5: Schumacher Hated Him
Response 6: Capps Hated Don And Is Happy To Go
Response 7: Schumacher is a &^*@&@(!8

Response 7 should be thrown off the site, response 5 and 6 should be given warnings. Response 5 and 6 could of been ok if it started with a maybe instead of a quick attack. Response 7 will not be tolerated at all.

Violation Idea:
In violation of any of what i stated:

Yellow violation: A Week off the site and your name is not functional to log in
Black violation: A month off the site and your name is not functional to log in

You can e-mail a moderater for an appeal and moderater can then overturn it or keep it and also if it does not go well here's what's next:

Red Violation: Anyone like response 7 or insults directly anyone without presenting it in a non harsh thought out arguement.

feedback?

There are way to many "ifs" here. The dog woulda caught the rabbit if......................................................

 

[Rat]

There are way to many "ifs" here. The dog woulda caught the rabbit if......................................................

than maybe that's what needs to be, my main point of it all, what happens here too many times is that people insults other people cause of what they think, or are quick to comment on the actions of people they never even met or were anywhere close to learning what really happened and will form a view on it.

you can disagree, you can state what you may feel really happend, but you should not be allowed to judge anyone on this site and it needs to STOP.

THIS SITE WAS TO DISCUSS DRAG RACING, LEARN THINGS, AND POSSIBLY BE YOUR FIRST SOURCE FOR CONFIRMED NEWS AND POSSIBLE RUMORS/NOT TO MAKE SOMEONE FEEL LIKE AN ASS FOR FEELING THE WAY THEY DO!

THERE NEEDS TO BE A VIOLATION SYSTEM THAT WORKS OR THIS SITE WILL ALWAYS BE A FREE FOR ALL. ALSO IN THE SYSTEM, LET VIOLATIONS EXPIRE AFTER WATCHING SOME OF THEIR POSTS.

 

[Rat]

lol or we can really take care of alot of the crap on here and charge 10 bucks a month. If that was to happen tomorrow i'd know i'd be gone unless things improved

 

[Tumbleweed]

How about a "Trash or Be Trashed" Section like they do on another forum, (of course changing the name) that way, who ever wants to say whatever has their own place to do so and then the real forum can be left the way it is and there will be a location to move the jibber jabber.

 

[Jenn]

I think what I expected/want from the Mater is something that's long gone. You can't ask for it on a software program.

Camaraderie, friendship, banter between racers and fans.

A lot of the 'original' maters on here are still friends on facebook because here, it's just...gone! Some of us have become such good friends offline that we don't need to get online for friendship.

Now instead of friendly banter, it seems to be back to who can draw first blood. Some of the NHRA section has become like Left/Right wing arch enemies that pit the fans of one team or another against the world instead of all embracing the sport that they love.

Before it used to be more middle ground of fans and racers, and now it's more divided now than it was when it was even screen names.

Now it's
Pros vs sportsman
Tech junkies vs don't care
nitro vs aspirated
Nostalgia vs current
DSR vs JFR.
safety nazis vs we've done it this way this long
NHRA sucks vs NHRA is great
Sponsorship is God's gift to racing vs I miss the old days when they did it for love not money...

That's all I got to say about that! (for now!)

 

[Rat]

How about a "Trash or Be Trashed" Section like they do on another forum, (of course changing the name) that way, who ever wants to say whatever has their own place to do so and then the real forum can be left the way it is and there will be a location to move the jibber jabber.

That is a flatout genius idea. That could fix everything. Like a barfight, lets take it outside, yet not completely backing down.

 

[shoe]

Folks
Put yourself in my skin, never mind that will never happan.

There were 3 threads that I felt were negative and made me feel terrible and I am sorry but they hurt. I work hard at creating the operation I have and I am a very proud person. I take responsibility when I feel I should because the s**t lands on my desk last but to have so many comments that are lies and attempts to hurt DSR is wrong. They not only hurt DSR, they hurt the sponsors that are the foundation of NHRA. Why does it feel like I did something wrong because I decided to let Cory go. Everybody can guess why I did that but it is only my business and mine alone. leave Fram and Honeywell out of this. We are all NHRA fans and we are blessed that they are involved in the sport we love. The comments can and will hurt all sponsors that read these threads, some owners and President's of sponsors come here and read this stuff, think about that when you put things on here.

Job security at DSR, what a bunch of painful BS comments. Like I said DSR has over 100 employees and I am proud of everyone of them. Ace retired and that is all any of you need to know. Medlen is working at DSR everyday and he is a very special man. Ronnie went to AJ to learn more, just like some other people did that have since departed there.

The Capps thread is just a bunch of s**t from someone that wants to hurt people.

Am I upset, yes I am, like I said I am a proud person that has feelings and I put a lot of my heart in this business but I also realize I created this monster DSR and I am the one that decided to put myself out here.

Like the Cory and Ace situation, I accept responsibility in full.

I expect the Matter to be what it is and there are no reasons to try to protect any of us anymore then you already do but I do expect people to respect other people and try to put truth out there rather then just BS.

 

[jackass]

Great post Don....

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Well, Shoe has found the magic word - respect.
My suggestions:
1. Engage your brain before putting your mouth (or fingers) in gear.
2. Read what you have written before hitting the Submit button -
I have composed posts and then realized that what I had written
would unjustly offend or anger other Maters. The back button (deleting the
post) has probably saved me a lot of embarassment recently. Certainly a
change from my past.
3. Don't post in anger - calm down before posting. I caught a lot of heat for
my post about how I was treated as an NHRA member when I showed up
at ORP in May and asked if we could take a look at the facility. I still
think I was right to be angry and have not renewed my NHRA
membership, but I did a very bad job of venting my frustration.

I don't have an answer for posters who don't care about anyone's feelings and have no respect for Maters who are currently racing or have experience
as drivers, team members or sponsors. Fortunately, these idiots tend to slink away after multiple replies prove their stupidity.

Freedom of speech is a difficult issue. Please remember - "Your rights should end where the other guy's nose begins."

 

[The Little Lizard]

A couple of years ago, they were going to have a section on here for people actually involved in the racing industry. Racers, aftermarket people, etc. Not fans.

They still need to do this. Leave the current board as a fan board, and have a racer board that Don and the other can come back into and have real dialog.

Drag Racing has always been a sport of people, all people. It's unfortunate that other boards and individuals have created their own 1320 sociological in groups and out groups in the sport. When this is done it creates even sub-strata of groups and individuals. Which spawns it own in groups and out groups of individuals who believe they can determine who can be in a given group or category based on unknown qualifications, unknown changing criterion, etc. It's a bunch of jive, everyone should be able to participate its one of the most attractive and popular parts of Drag Racing.

 

[Redman]

Just keep in mind that sponsors keep their eyes open here. If there is too much trashing and disrespect of the NHRA, teams, crew chiefs or drivers, sponsors pay attention. Money is hard to come by... and individuals or companies that may choose to invest in this industry just might withhold their investment based on a seriously negative attitude of whatever they were considering. This isn't hard to understand, the posters here make a difference. This board is a reflection of the sport. That is the good news. It is also a responsibility.

You get to say pretty much whatever you want here... consequences for the industry either way.

Jim

 

[The Little Lizard]

I expect the Matter to be what it is and there are no reasons to try to protect any of us anymore then you already do but I do expect people to respect other people and try to put truth out there rather then just BS.

Ditto Don, Matter should stay what it is. We can only hope eveyone who participates treats others with dignity and respect. However, the sport has its dark and rough sides to it, and probably always will. It is a sport of people, all types of people and I'll let you figure out what that means. Mr. Schumacher is a fine gentlemen who has contibuted much to the sport of drag racing. Anyone who has accomplished as much on and off the track as he has inherently comes with tough skin so to speak. You will find that those that rise to the top of the pyramid in this sport have such attributes.

 

[Rick]

Folks
Put yourself in my skin, never mind that will never happan.

There were 3 threads that I felt were negative and made me feel terrible and I am sorry but they hurt. I work hard at creating the operation I have and I am a very proud person. I take responsibility when I feel I should because the s**t lands on my desk last but to have so many comments that are lies and attempts to hurt DSR is wrong. They not only hurt DSR, they hurt the sponsors that are the foundation of NHRA. Why does it feel like I did something wrong because I decided to let Cory go. Everybody can guess why I did that but it is only my business and mine alone. leave Fram and Honeywell out of this. We are all NHRA fans and we are blessed that they are involved in the sport we love. The comments can and will hurt all sponsors that read these threads, some owners and President's of sponsors come here and read this stuff, think about that when you put things on here.

Job security at DSR, what a bunch of painful BS comments. Like I said DSR has over 100 employees and I am proud of everyone of them. Ace retired and that is all any of you need to know. Medlen is working at DSR everyday and he is a very special man. Ronnie went to AJ to learn more, just like some other people did that have since departed there.

The Capps thread is just a bunch of s**t from someone that wants to hurt people.

Am I upset, yes I am, like I said I am a proud person that has feelings and I put a lot of my heart in this business but I also realize I created this monster DSR and I am the one that decided to put myself out here.

Like the Cory and Ace situation, I accept responsibility in full.

I expect the Matter to be what it is and there are no reasons to try to protect any of us anymore then you already do but I do expect people to respect other people and try to put truth out there rather then just BS.

Well said Don!

I think most people should read their post before you post them and ask yourself if it passes the grandmother test…would you talk to her like that or would you be embarrassed if she were to read what you wrote.

There are a lot more than just sponsors who look at these types of post. The Matter does not have the aliases that most boards do and your name is exposed for everyone to see, including future employers (if you have to work). If you are ever looking for a job, these people WILL Google your name to see what, if anything comes up. When you spend too much time speculating on rumors or things you/we do not know the truth of, it shows a level of maturity and caricature that can hurt you personally. Like Don said, sponsors look at these posts too; we have all seen the decrease in car counts due to a lack of sponsors, we should all be mindful of what we say in these public forums so we do not chase the rest of them away as well for other reasons.

Rick