Should they give the PS more downforce??

[Dave]

May I be the first to say that your in-depth research frankly scares me. It's not the sign of a sober drag racing mind. And second, might I be the first 'Mater to call you by your new sobriquet? "Grassy Knoll Dave."

Oh no that's not research, that's just off the top of my head. I added links to support my memory! I'm not sure about the Grassy Knoll bit haha.. What's it implying?

 

[Jeff]

People like Dave, with an apparent photographic memory, should never say "off the top of my head" .... it is so demeaning to the rest of us.

Grassy Knoll Dave? ... some sort of mysterious source who hits his target multiple times? Not sure I follow that one. Back to the car barn, and a motor change ... too deep here on the mater, hands clean and fresh caffeine, so maybe one more hour of wrenching for me.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Besides being a "fan", what other qualifications do you have to make rules to racers?

The fact that other classes (with downforce) were getting down both lanes, going much faster.Yet in PS a half dozen of THE BEST drivers have trouble in both lanes, tells me it's not a track problem, it's a car problem.

No offical qualifications in track prep, or building PS, but I can see.
Life long fan yes, but I have been down a track or two.

 

[Dry Hop Doc]

Oh great. I mention grassy knoll and now Jeff's talking about the top of someone's head. Seriously, am I the only one seeing the conspiracy here?

By the way, I loved JFK. No disrespect (beyond comedic) is intended.

 

[Jeff]

Morbid humor there Marc! I get it, but whew that is tough.

I did laugh at the explanation.

 

[d'kid]

Oh great. I mention grassy knoll and now Jeff's talking about the top of someone's head. Seriously, am I the only one seeing the conspiracy here?

By the way, I loved JFK. No disrespect (beyond comedic) is intended.

Well, my friend Mark Lane said.... weepers could be coming from in front of and behind you... and we are going to Dallas this week....

d'kid

 

[twostep]

Whatever was ailing the left lane was forcing driver after driver after driver to drift towards the center and out of the groove at about 8-900 feet. Morgan. Then Enders. Anderson. Gray. You can correct a doorslammer that moves left or right when you're 60 feet out, and get away with it, with only a minimal loss of ET as a penalty. I noticed the next in line, Mike Edwards, made his pass at least 6 inches to the left of those who ran before him, in an effort to keep from being shoved right....which worked, and he made a slightly slower but clean, safe pass.

You CANNOT correct a short wheelbase, low-downforce doorslammer, whether it's a Pro Stock, Comp Elim car, or even a ProMod for that matter, that gets out of the groove at 200 miles per hour. It will come around on you every time. Lots of people have been injured, some killed, in the Super and Comp classes for this very reason. Hit the chutes, hit the clutch, bring it home in one piece and race another day.

No one will need to worry about weepers in Dallas, where the chances of rain are nonexistent - probably for the next year and a half.

 

[Gordon]

Spot On Shipmate !!!!!


d'kid

Thank you, sir.

 

[Dry Hop Doc]

Well, my friend Mark Lane said.... weepers could be coming from in front of and behind you... and we are going to Dallas this week....d'kid

Ya' seeeee! What did I tell you!

Don't know how I missed the Dallas connection.

 

[Brian]

I watched the same race all of you did and read this entire thread but here's what I don't get, why is there such a difference of opinion between the racers on what should or shouldn't have been done. Erica and John Nobile threw NHRA under the bus and basically said they shouldn't have sent the cars down the track. Gray wads up the car and doesn't blame NHRA even a little bit. Morgan, who loves to bash NHRA, took the high road. I get the feeling that if they had be polled as to whether or not to postpone eliminations the vote would have been split. All that to say, if you trashed the safety safari in the "heat of battle", you might want to buy them dinner once you calmed down.

 

[DrRocket]

.... weepers could be coming from in front of and behind you...

Well I don't know why I came here tonight,
I got the feeling that something ain't right,
I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair,
And I'm wondering how I'll get down the stairs,
weepers to the left of me,
whiners to the right, here I am,
Stuck in the middle with you........

 

[dboxell]

Been away from access the past few days, however isn't this the same thing (lack of down force) that bit Ron Krisher two years in a row.
Most likely the difference in opinions between the racers is the fact that some have used the lack of down force to achieve greater MPH. When thousandths of a second decides races they will do what ever is possible to get an advantage. Similar to when they figured out the "drooping" front valances.

 

[daveo]

Tears from Pro Stock Drivers made the traction looser! Why drive a skate board? Grow some wings!

 

[.]

Make them put top fuel wings on front and back: problem solved!

 

[Kevin]

If not more downforce, how about a automatic system to pop a chute when a car is getting out of shape? Several methods possible; yaw detector (used in "active handling" systems on street cars for over a decade now), wheelspin above X mph, unloaded rear suspension above X mph... I'm sure there are others.

 

[TSK]

If not more downforce, how about a automatic system to pop a chute when a car is getting out of shape? Several methods possible; yaw detector (used in "active handling" systems on street cars for over a decade now), wheelspin above X mph, unloaded rear suspension above X mph... I'm sure there are others.

How about cutting a slot down the middle of the track and put a corresponding guide pin on the car, similar to 1/24 slot cars? That will stop the cars from getting out of shape at all.
Then, you could put remote control inside the car so the “driver” could stay all nice and warm in his trailer and just handle the car from there.
With this method, you kill two birds with one stone; the cars would no longer get out of shape, and the drivers would not be risking injury by actually driving the cars.
The race’s outcome will be determined by whichever driver pushes the GO button quicker.

 

[FC138fan]

I remember Rusty Wallace doing a bunch of spectacular barrel rolls at Daytona one year. They then put those pop up air deflectors on the roof so that they don't flip over when they get spun around so you don't see that much anymore. Maybe they'd be useful in PS?

 

[vegasnitro]

I remember Rusty Wallace doing a bunch of spectacular barrel rolls at Daytona one year. They then put those pop up air deflectors on the roof so that they don't flip over when they get spun around so you don't see that much anymore. Maybe they'd be useful in PS?

That reverse blowover Shane Gray did was weird. I have never seen that before. It does seem as though those roof flaps Cup cars have could prevent that.

 

[smokemasterJ]

I had that same thought about the pop-up vents in NASCAR. I don't know if they are powered or just pop up when the air pressure is right (or wrong!). The new Camaro's aerodynamics might have even had something to do with it. Perhaps even something along the lines of the funny car taillight flaps could be incorporated. But, yes the PS cars usually just get on their roofs and slide.

 

[Dave]

Unfortunately roof flaps won't work in a pro stock car. In 1994 at the IHRA Winternationals in Darlington, Roy Hill got out of shape and flew his car past the finish line and over the other line guardrail. When interviewed on ESPN, he vowed to be back at Bristol with roof flaps in his new Thunderbird. The car never was made with them. Back in the mid 90's it was more of a problem of lift off with the cars. Roy's flip for example, as well as Kurt Johnson at Phoenix in 93, and Ed Heck at the 94 Winston finals. The problem facing the current cars are they seem to lean or tip over when they get sideways. If you look back at most recent crashes, and i'll list them below, the cars turn sideways and flip over roof first instead of underside first. Examples : Shane Gray, Paul Pittman, John Gaydosh, Rodger Brogdon, Kenny Koretsky, Vinny Deceglie, Gordie Rivera, Ron Krisher (Indy and Seattle), Bruce Allen, Taylor Lastor, Jason Line, Greg Anderson, and Allen Johnson. The oldest of those dating back to 1999. In a Sprint Cup style crash the car will rotate a full 90 degrees and THEN the back of the car will start to lift off and it will flip with the underside of the car facing forward. The pro stock cars flip with the roof forward. The Cup car had to be at a certain angle for the roof flaps to actually deploy. A pro stock car never makes it that far around before it's turning over. I don't know what solution could be done to prevent the cars from just leaning over the way they do. I think it's more of a center of gravity issue. The cup car has a very low center of gravity vs the pro stock car, making it a lot more stable. The pro stock cars were never meant to turn.