Sampey/shirley (1 Viewer)
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Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
As much as I LOVE Shirley Muldowney, and I believe the sport needs her now more than ever before, in the end, she leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to carrying herself as a businessperson.
She is her own worst enemy.
Yes, I am sure she was totally screwed over after being promised the world by the Guard.
Yeah, I'd be totally pi$$ed off, hurt and let down by the powers that be in the Guard. Yes, some might find it embarrassing, personally, I wouldn't.
Yes, she has every right to call it like it is, and say that the Guard's word isn't worth a handful of dogcrap, which doesn't surprise me one bit..
But, you just don't say it.
Not because it isn't true, but because she is going to have a hard time attracting another perspective sponsor that trusts her temperment under adversity. One who won't blow off to the media when one is upset. Does anyone remember Kenny Bernstein airing dirty laundry? I didn't think so. In the 80's, oil sponsors fought over Kenny's rear quarter panel, and that's why he's the king of this sport, and that's why AB stuck with him for thirtysomething years.. He was, and still is a trusted, superior brand who will represent the best in professionalism along with promoting your product with class.
As much as it was rotten and poor business for the Guard to skip on Shirley, it was equally poor, if not worse for Shirley to spew her venom all over the same pages where a possible sponsor may be shopping for a team to represent their brand with top shelf professionalism anyone would expect.. I would think Shirley would be more aware of that fact at this point in her life.
IMHO bottom line, NHRA is a declining sport with an inferior TV product at 1,000', along with a very small fan base as compared to Nascar. Sure, Nascar has their support issues as well, but it's like comparing Jupiter to Earth, Jupiter is a thousand times bigger to begin with. The Guard's money will be better spent, and the exposure will be 1,000 times greater with Nascar. I am sure many will object, but it's just the plain and obvious truth.....
The Guard's decision to skip over the NHRA for Nascar was probably the smart move. Danica recieved more exposure at the Daytona 500 this week, than what the NHRA will see this entire season.
Too Bad the Guard didn't find a way to do both. Maybe they were still considering it in the back of their minds. After watching the exposure Danica recieved, all of that TV time and attention may just have been enough to get them thinking about the Shirley Muldowney story again..
Maybe another perspective sponsor was also watching, one who couldn't afford to enter Nascar, but could fund a Top Fueler or two, and who better than Shirley, one of the undisputable cornerstones of the sport?
After reading Shirley's response, what does a squeaky clean corporate type think of Shirley as a potential team to partner with now?
As much as I LOVE Shirley Muldowney, and I believe the sport needs her now more than ever before, in the end, she leaves a lot to be desired when it comes to carrying herself as a businessperson.
She is her own worst enemy.
Yes, I am sure she was totally screwed over after being promised the world by the Guard.
Yeah, I'd be totally pi$$ed off, hurt and let down by the powers that be in the Guard. Yes, some might find it embarrassing, personally, I wouldn't.
Yes, she has every right to call it like it is, and say that the Guard's word isn't worth a handful of dogcrap, which doesn't surprise me one bit..
But, you just don't say it.
Not because it isn't true, but because she is going to have a hard time attracting another perspective sponsor that trusts her temperment under adversity. One who won't blow off to the media when one is upset. Does anyone remember Kenny Bernstein airing dirty laundry? I didn't think so. In the 80's, oil sponsors fought over Kenny's rear quarter panel, and that's why he's the king of this sport, and that's why AB stuck with him for thirtysomething years.. He was, and still is a trusted, superior brand who will represent the best in professionalism along with promoting your product with class.
As much as it was rotten and poor business for the Guard to skip on Shirley, it was equally poor, if not worse for Shirley to spew her venom all over the same pages where a possible sponsor may be shopping for a team to represent their brand with top shelf professionalism anyone would expect.. I would think Shirley would be more aware of that fact at this point in her life.
IMHO bottom line, NHRA is a declining sport with an inferior TV product at 1,000', along with a very small fan base as compared to Nascar. Sure, Nascar has their support issues as well, but it's like comparing Jupiter to Earth, Jupiter is a thousand times bigger to begin with. The Guard's money will be better spent, and the exposure will be 1,000 times greater with Nascar. I am sure many will object, but it's just the plain and obvious truth.....
The Guard's decision to skip over the NHRA for Nascar was probably the smart move. Danica recieved more exposure at the Daytona 500 this week, than what the NHRA will see this entire season.
Too Bad the Guard didn't find a way to do both. Maybe they were still considering it in the back of their minds. After watching the exposure Danica recieved, all of that TV time and attention may just have been enough to get them thinking about the Shirley Muldowney story again..
Maybe another perspective sponsor was also watching, one who couldn't afford to enter Nascar, but could fund a Top Fueler or two, and who better than Shirley, one of the undisputable cornerstones of the sport?
After reading Shirley's response, what does a squeaky clean corporate type think of Shirley as a potential team to partner with now?
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Nitro Member
Marchboom
Nitro Member
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
IMO, as a sponsor, I would not want someone with the arrogant attitude that Shirley displays. During her interviews over the years, she almost always puts down other racers in some form. Just watch past racing programs when she is interviewed. I hit the "mute" button when they interview her.
Her attitude and comments regarding the National Guard deal is an example of why she probably wasn't sponsored. There is no doubt that the media would be interviewing her constantly and the Guard just didn't want her attitude representing them. I can't blame them.
Personally, I much prefer the personality style of Bernstein, Schumacher, Dixon, Wilkerson, etc.
As stated above, this is my opinion. I know there are a lot of folks who love Shirley...I'm not one of them. And apparently the Guard isn't either.
IMO, as a sponsor, I would not want someone with the arrogant attitude that Shirley displays. During her interviews over the years, she almost always puts down other racers in some form. Just watch past racing programs when she is interviewed. I hit the "mute" button when they interview her.
Her attitude and comments regarding the National Guard deal is an example of why she probably wasn't sponsored. There is no doubt that the media would be interviewing her constantly and the Guard just didn't want her attitude representing them. I can't blame them.
Personally, I much prefer the personality style of Bernstein, Schumacher, Dixon, Wilkerson, etc.
As stated above, this is my opinion. I know there are a lot of folks who love Shirley...I'm not one of them. And apparently the Guard isn't either.
Gordon
Nitro Member
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
I understand the National Guard came to them, not the other way around, but let's try to put this in perspective. Who in the National Guard came to them? Was it folks who pulled the purse strings, or two fans that were communicating with the folks who pull the purse strings? I'm guessing somewhere in the middle, leaning toward option #2.
Then ask yourself this question if you are, in fact, the purse string puller for the National Guard:
If I walk down the street in Anywhere, U.S.A. and stop 100 random men, women & children and ask them if they know who Dale Earnhardt, Jr. & Jeff Gordon are and then ask them if they know who Shirley Muldowney and Angelle Sampey are, what percentages will I end up with? I can say with a great deal of certainty that more folks will know the first two drivers listed...
As for Shirley's passion and straight-forwardness, it was the absolute right attitude in the 60's and 70's, and it made her as successful as she is. But in today's corporate NHRA world, that approach is well past it's prime. I would suggest you can be hard-nosed and tough without sounding arrogant and flippant.
I understand the National Guard came to them, not the other way around, but let's try to put this in perspective. Who in the National Guard came to them? Was it folks who pulled the purse strings, or two fans that were communicating with the folks who pull the purse strings? I'm guessing somewhere in the middle, leaning toward option #2.
Then ask yourself this question if you are, in fact, the purse string puller for the National Guard:
If I walk down the street in Anywhere, U.S.A. and stop 100 random men, women & children and ask them if they know who Dale Earnhardt, Jr. & Jeff Gordon are and then ask them if they know who Shirley Muldowney and Angelle Sampey are, what percentages will I end up with? I can say with a great deal of certainty that more folks will know the first two drivers listed...
As for Shirley's passion and straight-forwardness, it was the absolute right attitude in the 60's and 70's, and it made her as successful as she is. But in today's corporate NHRA world, that approach is well past it's prime. I would suggest you can be hard-nosed and tough without sounding arrogant and flippant.
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
I rarely agree with Mr. Civiletto, but I agree with him this time. I was slackjawed reading that article ... had I been the journalist interviewing her I would have stopped her half-way thru and asked her if she was sure she wanted to be on the record!
It sucks when a potential sponsor promises you the moon.
It sucks more when they don't follow thru for whatever reason.
It REALLY sucks when you open your trap about it in a public forum like an industry news website all but ensuring yourself no sponsor will come near you, lest they be drug thru the mud if a business relationship could not be procured.
When I read that article my secondary thought was for Angelle ... 2 words immediately came to mind ... DAMAGE CONTROL ... I hope this rant hasn't dimished her chances at getting any ride, be it on 2 wheels or 4.
For all of you people searching for sponsorship, we have example 1 here of how NOT to handle rejection.
I rarely agree with Mr. Civiletto, but I agree with him this time. I was slackjawed reading that article ... had I been the journalist interviewing her I would have stopped her half-way thru and asked her if she was sure she wanted to be on the record!
It sucks when a potential sponsor promises you the moon.
It sucks more when they don't follow thru for whatever reason.
It REALLY sucks when you open your trap about it in a public forum like an industry news website all but ensuring yourself no sponsor will come near you, lest they be drug thru the mud if a business relationship could not be procured.
When I read that article my secondary thought was for Angelle ... 2 words immediately came to mind ... DAMAGE CONTROL ... I hope this rant hasn't dimished her chances at getting any ride, be it on 2 wheels or 4.
For all of you people searching for sponsorship, we have example 1 here of how NOT to handle rejection.
Did you see my thread about the Danica/Ashley comparison? When the Lady drivers can't land sponsors...that says a lot about the state of this sport!
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
Chris, Shirley has been burning Bridges in this sport for 40 years! Makes you wonder how many rides/sponsors she has lost by shootin off her mouth! As much as she has done for the sport as a whole, the opposite could be said as well.
Chris, Shirley has been burning Bridges in this sport for 40 years! Makes you wonder how many rides/sponsors she has lost by shootin off her mouth! As much as she has done for the sport as a whole, the opposite could be said as well.
90-percent
Nitro Member
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
I think any sponsor looking for an in your face WWE sort of nitro team would do well for themselves to sign them up.
There's been lots worse personality-wise in pro sports. John Mackinroe, Reggie Jackson, and others I can't name because I don't follow pro sports.
And I think it's honorable to call somebody out that may not have been dealing in good faith with Shirley. Shirley painted this as appearing somewhat less than sincere after a while.
-jim
I think any sponsor looking for an in your face WWE sort of nitro team would do well for themselves to sign them up.
There's been lots worse personality-wise in pro sports. John Mackinroe, Reggie Jackson, and others I can't name because I don't follow pro sports.
And I think it's honorable to call somebody out that may not have been dealing in good faith with Shirley. Shirley painted this as appearing somewhat less than sincere after a while.
-jim
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
True, but as with everything in life, there are ways of doing things. Shirley herself said the whole thing was hush-hush ... and indeed, her inflammatory article on CompPlus was the first many of us had heard about it. I would completely understand her going to other team owners and NHRA management and warning them to be wary of dealing with certain people in the National Guard's marketing department.
Then again, I have never owned a team or sought sponsorship ... so I could be all wet on this one ... but it did strike me as very odd and would make me wary of ever getting into a business relationship with her.
PS I am not making a personal attack on Shirley, I have been a fan as long as I can remember, just wondering about the business side here, and future business implications for her and Angelle.
True, but as with everything in life, there are ways of doing things. Shirley herself said the whole thing was hush-hush ... and indeed, her inflammatory article on CompPlus was the first many of us had heard about it. I would completely understand her going to other team owners and NHRA management and warning them to be wary of dealing with certain people in the National Guard's marketing department.
Then again, I have never owned a team or sought sponsorship ... so I could be all wet on this one ... but it did strike me as very odd and would make me wary of ever getting into a business relationship with her.
PS I am not making a personal attack on Shirley, I have been a fan as long as I can remember, just wondering about the business side here, and future business implications for her and Angelle.
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
Im not going to comment on the national guard thing because unless you were involved how is anyone suppost to know how the agreement and agreement cancellation went down. As for Shirley Speaking her mind good for her not everyone has to agree with someones oppinion but everyone is entitled to one and she is open with her oppinion. I have known some very oppinionated people and have found that they arent all that populer for just the reason they have an oppinion and they say it. Infact I worked in a enviroment like that where management werent helping as much as they could and one of the workers had some strong thoughts about some things and brang it up with them and they did not like that they just wanted him to just be like a robot and do the work and not ask questions even if his ideas could increase productivity.
Anyway back onto drag racing I read alot of interviews where you can instantly tell that they try and skip the question or its allmost like they are told what to and what not to say. As a drag racing fan it is nice to read an interview where you know that you are getting the persons honest answers and oppinions, because so often I wonder especially about controversial topics whether what they say is what they really think or if they are just saying stuff to please a sponsor or nhra or whatever. Like the 4-wide deal for example. I would love to hear what racers truly feel about stuff like that their reall opinions. I personally love it when a racer is interviewed and they can just be open they dont have to worry about what they have to say.
Im not going to comment on the national guard thing because unless you were involved how is anyone suppost to know how the agreement and agreement cancellation went down. As for Shirley Speaking her mind good for her not everyone has to agree with someones oppinion but everyone is entitled to one and she is open with her oppinion. I have known some very oppinionated people and have found that they arent all that populer for just the reason they have an oppinion and they say it. Infact I worked in a enviroment like that where management werent helping as much as they could and one of the workers had some strong thoughts about some things and brang it up with them and they did not like that they just wanted him to just be like a robot and do the work and not ask questions even if his ideas could increase productivity.
Anyway back onto drag racing I read alot of interviews where you can instantly tell that they try and skip the question or its allmost like they are told what to and what not to say. As a drag racing fan it is nice to read an interview where you know that you are getting the persons honest answers and oppinions, because so often I wonder especially about controversial topics whether what they say is what they really think or if they are just saying stuff to please a sponsor or nhra or whatever. Like the 4-wide deal for example. I would love to hear what racers truly feel about stuff like that their reall opinions. I personally love it when a racer is interviewed and they can just be open they dont have to worry about what they have to say.
Marchboom
Nitro Member
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
I would love to hear the National Guard's side of the story.
I would love to hear the National Guard's side of the story.
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
Thats a good point there are 2 sides here we have only heard one. So who knows what happened.
Thats a good point there are 2 sides here we have only heard one. So who knows what happened.
Re: Muldowney-Sampey deal
I have been sitting on this for several months now, and was asked to keep a lid on it. But I was given the okay to talk about what was going to happen.
Her son John was going to be the crew chief. Along with several members of her past teams. Her ex Rahn Tobler was not the sole one responsible for her wins. He may have assembled the parts on the engine stand, and ran the day to day operations, but long before Rahn, it was John that made the calls.
He set up the combinations that provided the foundation that began the long winding road to success. Using the skills he learned from his father.
His ability to read track conditions is second to none.
Unlike Rahn who knows how to make lots of power, but often smokes the tires in the first or second round. The other team members were to be Dana Kimmel , who along with Darren Capps produced the career best runs on the last pass tour.
The point being ..... The Muldowney - Sampey team had a very solid background. Great tuning ... and car setup, Great Driving skills with Sampey,
And the First Lady as Coach.
She has been hanging ... waiting for what was the shoe to drop.
Shame on the National Guard for putting a half dozen people through this.
Remember they called her. And strung her along.
I have been sitting on this for several months now, and was asked to keep a lid on it. But I was given the okay to talk about what was going to happen.
Her son John was going to be the crew chief. Along with several members of her past teams. Her ex Rahn Tobler was not the sole one responsible for her wins. He may have assembled the parts on the engine stand, and ran the day to day operations, but long before Rahn, it was John that made the calls.
He set up the combinations that provided the foundation that began the long winding road to success. Using the skills he learned from his father.
His ability to read track conditions is second to none.
Unlike Rahn who knows how to make lots of power, but often smokes the tires in the first or second round. The other team members were to be Dana Kimmel , who along with Darren Capps produced the career best runs on the last pass tour.
The point being ..... The Muldowney - Sampey team had a very solid background. Great tuning ... and car setup, Great Driving skills with Sampey,
And the First Lady as Coach.
She has been hanging ... waiting for what was the shoe to drop.
Shame on the National Guard for putting a half dozen people through this.
Remember they called her. And strung her along.
Long ago there was a Army team. And a Navy team. And a Air Force team as well.
Jim
Nitro Member
I'm with you Jack.
Shirley (BTW: I like the new haircut - no kidding) mentions a Sargeant by name "and his colonel"........Who would rely on any romancing from a Sgt? It just sounds odd.....
I imagine more potential sponsorship deals go on-the-rocks than ever get sealed but 'kinda dicey behavior to bad mouth the potential suitor for taking his bucks elsewhere. I mean, it doesn't appear they got close to signing a contract and spending money (Shirley OR the Guard). Might make the next "potential" suitor nervous about the treatment s/he might get if they don't advance beyond second or third base. Might go with the "safer" bet such as KB or DSR or JFR. Nobody needs this kind of publicity.
Dave
Nitro Member
Ah children, children - what is the world coming too? Shirley Muldowney has made her feelings known and it's just too much for your little ears to handle. As I always preface these comments, everyone is entitled to their opinions however make sure you recognize the overall scope of things before forming your opinions.
You have to realize that the National Guard people approached Shirley, not the other way around. To lead somebody on like they did - and then to turn around and dump the whole deal is just classless in my opinion. This is not how to treat people - esspecially Shirley Muldowney and Angelle Sampey. It has to do with your integrity. You just don't do this.
There have been several compairisons made here between Kenny Bernstein's approach to sponsors and Shirley's approach to sponsors. True, Kenny Bernstein has done some remarkable things in bringing sponsors to the sport and keeping them satisfied. But so has Shirley - you may recall some of the sponsors she had over ther years: English Leather, Fredricks of Hollywood, Pioneer Stereo, and Chrysler/Mopar - to name a few. And let's not forget the Zantrex / Strivecten deal. They approached Shirley after she had retired from driving. They begged her to come back but she said no. So what did she do? Shirley gifted the sponsor (which included a pretty big check) to the kalitta team. The Zantrex / Strivecten people agreed to go with kalitta only if Shirley would be involved with the team. The bottom line is that THE SPONSOR WANTED HER!!! Trust me, Shirley knows how to work with sponsors and I have seen her work with them. I was a guest of hers up in the Strivecten Suite up in the tower at Joliet in 2006. It was a wonderful time and I must say, the wine and hors derves were fantasic. As I'm sure you're aware, the Zantrex / Strivecten people have left Drag Racing and I'm told they are never coming back. I can only hope their departure had nothing to do with how they were treated by the team they got involved with.
Did any of you consider that the way Shirley handled the National Guard was maybe a warning to other potential victims. Both Shirley and Angelle have been lead to believe they've had sponsors in the past only to get screwed by them. Does anybody remember the clowns from PetroMoly? Or how about that RC car company that screwed Angelle when she was with George Bryce? There have been several Race Teams that have been led to believe they had a sponsor and actually began ordering parts. Only to find out there was no deal. Shirley is probably doing other team owners a favor by letting everyone know the who, what where, and when.
I feel that the National Guard has made a major mistake. This would have been a wonderful opportunity to target females to sign up for the National Guard. Both Shirley and Angelle are great role models for young women. They have both dealt with adversity and struggles in their personal and public lives yet through hard work and a never give up additude, they succeeded. That's one hell of an example for young women of today and it would have been a perfect fit for the National Guard.
You people are so quick to dump on Shirley because she speaks the truth. In today's world that is so over blown with all of the politically correct BS, I find it refreshing to here the truth from somebody. You will ALWAYS get the truth from Shirley. I would much rather hear the truth than some canned load of crap about how everything is so wonderful even though you've just been screwed royally. Maybe that's part of the problem with the world. Nobody has the balls anymore to stand up and speak the truth, they just go on believing all is well.
The fact that the National Guard decided to give more money to Rick Hendrick than to a Legend in Drag Racing really speaks volumes of how poorly the image NHRA and the sport as a whole is perceived. Honestly, the fact that the National Guard would rather get in bed with a convicted felon, than support a no BS figure like Shirley Muldowney is beyond me. And by the way, why they hell did one of our former Presidents pardon Hendrick anyway?
I have read some comments about why Shirley is now supporting Angelle rather than another female driver. Someone mentioned why it appears that Shirley was no longer interested in supporting Hillary Will's drivng efforts. Shirley was right there to help Hillary in any way she could. I was there, I saw it. The trouble in this situation is when the student feels that they have aquired enough knowledge and the help from the teacher is no longer wanted. It is sad how it turned out but I guess it falls under the catagory of live and learn. Or maybe it's live, learn just enough, and then lose your ride - but hey, what do I know.
There is a sponsor out there for Shirley's team, it just has to be found. Now that it's out there that Shirley and Angelle have teamed up, I doubt the sponsor hunt will take much longer.
Bring it on!!!
Dave
You have to realize that the National Guard people approached Shirley, not the other way around. To lead somebody on like they did - and then to turn around and dump the whole deal is just classless in my opinion. This is not how to treat people - esspecially Shirley Muldowney and Angelle Sampey. It has to do with your integrity. You just don't do this.
There have been several compairisons made here between Kenny Bernstein's approach to sponsors and Shirley's approach to sponsors. True, Kenny Bernstein has done some remarkable things in bringing sponsors to the sport and keeping them satisfied. But so has Shirley - you may recall some of the sponsors she had over ther years: English Leather, Fredricks of Hollywood, Pioneer Stereo, and Chrysler/Mopar - to name a few. And let's not forget the Zantrex / Strivecten deal. They approached Shirley after she had retired from driving. They begged her to come back but she said no. So what did she do? Shirley gifted the sponsor (which included a pretty big check) to the kalitta team. The Zantrex / Strivecten people agreed to go with kalitta only if Shirley would be involved with the team. The bottom line is that THE SPONSOR WANTED HER!!! Trust me, Shirley knows how to work with sponsors and I have seen her work with them. I was a guest of hers up in the Strivecten Suite up in the tower at Joliet in 2006. It was a wonderful time and I must say, the wine and hors derves were fantasic. As I'm sure you're aware, the Zantrex / Strivecten people have left Drag Racing and I'm told they are never coming back. I can only hope their departure had nothing to do with how they were treated by the team they got involved with.
Did any of you consider that the way Shirley handled the National Guard was maybe a warning to other potential victims. Both Shirley and Angelle have been lead to believe they've had sponsors in the past only to get screwed by them. Does anybody remember the clowns from PetroMoly? Or how about that RC car company that screwed Angelle when she was with George Bryce? There have been several Race Teams that have been led to believe they had a sponsor and actually began ordering parts. Only to find out there was no deal. Shirley is probably doing other team owners a favor by letting everyone know the who, what where, and when.
I feel that the National Guard has made a major mistake. This would have been a wonderful opportunity to target females to sign up for the National Guard. Both Shirley and Angelle are great role models for young women. They have both dealt with adversity and struggles in their personal and public lives yet through hard work and a never give up additude, they succeeded. That's one hell of an example for young women of today and it would have been a perfect fit for the National Guard.
You people are so quick to dump on Shirley because she speaks the truth. In today's world that is so over blown with all of the politically correct BS, I find it refreshing to here the truth from somebody. You will ALWAYS get the truth from Shirley. I would much rather hear the truth than some canned load of crap about how everything is so wonderful even though you've just been screwed royally. Maybe that's part of the problem with the world. Nobody has the balls anymore to stand up and speak the truth, they just go on believing all is well.
The fact that the National Guard decided to give more money to Rick Hendrick than to a Legend in Drag Racing really speaks volumes of how poorly the image NHRA and the sport as a whole is perceived. Honestly, the fact that the National Guard would rather get in bed with a convicted felon, than support a no BS figure like Shirley Muldowney is beyond me. And by the way, why they hell did one of our former Presidents pardon Hendrick anyway?
I have read some comments about why Shirley is now supporting Angelle rather than another female driver. Someone mentioned why it appears that Shirley was no longer interested in supporting Hillary Will's drivng efforts. Shirley was right there to help Hillary in any way she could. I was there, I saw it. The trouble in this situation is when the student feels that they have aquired enough knowledge and the help from the teacher is no longer wanted. It is sad how it turned out but I guess it falls under the catagory of live and learn. Or maybe it's live, learn just enough, and then lose your ride - but hey, what do I know.
There is a sponsor out there for Shirley's team, it just has to be found. Now that it's out there that Shirley and Angelle have teamed up, I doubt the sponsor hunt will take much longer.
Bring it on!!!
Dave
Dave, I think you and Shirley need to get a room!
rollingthunder
Nitro Member
Wow !!! Shirley HAS SPOKEN !!! I guess we are not allowed to comment when the QUEEN has spoken. Seems awful funny every turn someone has wrongED poor Shirley or not given her her dues. Sounds like same book same chapter.
Now when Shirley gets tired of Angelle it will be another female driver.
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