Pro Stock to have 8 car fields...............
- Thread starter ironpony
- Start date
glofria
Nitro Member
All the good ones in Glendora ARE GONE.
Steve Gibbs was the last of the good ones.
http://competitionplus.com/competitionplustv/steve-gibbs-im-in-my-element
SoCal Racer
Nitro Member
No rev limiter. Carbs or EFI, your choice. Hood scoop or not, your choice.....as if the current over-bulged hoods look ANYTHING like stock. None of the recent changes made the class more appealing in any way.
As Ken said, back to panel cars. Even the drooped front end era had panels close to stock dimensions, real grilles and lights, etc., unlike the current sliced-n-diced carbon fiber "replicas." If you parked a stock Camaro next to a PS you'd wonder if they're the same car..... just sayin'
My 2 cents; my rules package
Sean D, shondoo
Nitro Member
I agree, but that's no gonna be enough. You said yourself; Mopar has quit producing parts for the current configuration, so any rules package that still allows the current engine configurations won't bring them or Ford back into the picture.
Thus, FSS.......
It's time for all of us, racers included, to just get over it and get with the times. If you want factory involvement (which I personally believe is necessary for the long-term health of a class called Pro Stock) and TRUE factory wars, then this is where things need to head. Yes, there will need to be some factoring, and yes, it will be a pain in the ass, but it's a necessary evil. The sanctioning body, with the exception of the PSM debacle, has done a pretty good job keeping parity in classes with multiple configurations, and it can be done here. If nothing else, it will add yet another element for us to bitch about when once brand is running better than another....... Lol!
Like many, I see it coming and am confident that this is where it will ultimately end up in a few short years. There will be some attrition for sure. But if it's executed properly, there will be a renewed factory involvement, an influx of new blood and it will be exciting to watch.
Sean D
All the Ford vs Chevy vs Mopar stuff ended in the early 90's. As for an all Chevy show and GM excecs exactly what PS team has Chevy sponsorship? I know there is an event or two sponsored by Chevy but not a PS car. The only way to save the class is to start over and welcome ALL MAKES of cars with different engine combos and bring in some fresh minds to run the class.
stitcherbob
Nitro Member
I don't care about factory involvement. Privateers are what made Drag Racing accessible to the small guy. Factory $$$$$ just pollutes things. Thus we now have all Camaros.
I don't care about FFS cars that require you to be a millionaire to buy and then we get to watch cars a couple seconds slower than PS.
I like when someone like Grumpy or WJ or Roy built what they liked and ran it before the factory or the NHRA meddled with the formula.
Rev limiters suck....you wanna win, you might break some parts....just limit weird new metallurgy and certain expensive tech in the rules and they will build them to run up to the limit, not break.
We didn't have a problem with PS running too fast like Nitro, just that it got too expensive. Reset the rules package to fix that instead of changing the whole thing. The EFI debacle could have avoided if they instituted it slowly.
Buddy Ingersol had an interesting and workable idea (V6 Turbo against the V8's) and it got squashed instead of allowing it to blossom.
New technology makes racing interesting...remember the STP Turbines at Indy? "Oh they are going to mop the floor with the rest of the field...ban them." But did one win the 500? Nope, they broke...back to the slide rule.
Too expensive? Nope, it was a surplus turbine engine vs Offys and other racing gear that were priced out of the stratosphere because "if you want to win, you need to buy the best from the best builders."
I'm not advocating for jet turbines in PS, but if that had worked at Indy back then, would the modern passenger car look a lot different today? Maybe WJ or Roy would be a PS turbine engine builder......
I don't care about FFS cars that require you to be a millionaire to buy and then we get to watch cars a couple seconds slower than PS.
I like when someone like Grumpy or WJ or Roy built what they liked and ran it before the factory or the NHRA meddled with the formula.
Rev limiters suck....you wanna win, you might break some parts....just limit weird new metallurgy and certain expensive tech in the rules and they will build them to run up to the limit, not break.
We didn't have a problem with PS running too fast like Nitro, just that it got too expensive. Reset the rules package to fix that instead of changing the whole thing. The EFI debacle could have avoided if they instituted it slowly.
Buddy Ingersol had an interesting and workable idea (V6 Turbo against the V8's) and it got squashed instead of allowing it to blossom.
New technology makes racing interesting...remember the STP Turbines at Indy? "Oh they are going to mop the floor with the rest of the field...ban them." But did one win the 500? Nope, they broke...back to the slide rule.
Too expensive? Nope, it was a surplus turbine engine vs Offys and other racing gear that were priced out of the stratosphere because "if you want to win, you need to buy the best from the best builders."
I'm not advocating for jet turbines in PS, but if that had worked at Indy back then, would the modern passenger car look a lot different today? Maybe WJ or Roy would be a PS turbine engine builder......
ironpony
Nitro Member
- Thread starter
- #67
Not sure if anyone else has seen this, it is the racers response to the NHRA cutting fields. It was posted on another race forum,
"This paints a dim future for drivers and team owners in the Pro Stock class.
The implemented 8-car fields at nine races next season comes on the heels of a letter that was sent to NHRA President Peter Clifford and NHRA’s management team earlier in the day of Oct. 3. The letter was obtained by Competition Plus and read as follows:
Citing a decline in participation, NHRA has decided nine of 24 races in 2018 will now be 8-car fields.
We would really like to talk to you about several things regarding Pro Stock and the health of the professional classes. From day one, we have been supportive of you guys and your decisions. We have continued to keep a positive attitude even when it affected us adversely. Having said that, we have seen a major shift in attitude and the focus has gone from participation, which we originally discussed in Denver, to "fan appeal". We were a little shocked with the sudden change in direction and we aren't sure exactly what that means. Collectively, we believe that we have a large fan base.
From a media standpoint, we are surrounded by negativity derived from the NHRA. We do the absolute best that we can within the rules that are laid out for us. We are not a boring class and we are not "slot cars". How can you grow fan appeal when Pro Stock is not promoted? We get a fraction of the TV time we should and get zero backing from NHRA when we try to self promote. The NFL, NBA, NHL, PGA, NASCAR, Indy Car etc., have figured out long ago that the athletes/drivers are the draw not the league or sanctioning body.
After our meeting in Charlotte, we have been unable to get a hold of you or Graham despite many attempts. In our humble opinion, this has become more of an attack, rather than a joint effort to fix our class.
This brings us to another point; Pro Stock is being picked on. We are not the only class that has low car counts. Just because Top Fuel and Funny Car have one or two more entries per race, does not mean they are so much better off. At Indy, the biggest race of the year, you had 10 full time racers in Top Fuel and 13 in Funny Car. The rest of the qualifying sheet was made up of one race entries or part time racers. That does not constitute health to us. Without Schumacher, Force and Kalitta, those classes do not exist. We want to make this point because it is clear that Pro Stock is not dying.
We have had more rule changes in the last 3 years than we have had in the history of the class combined. The rule changes were nothing but an expense to the teams and have significantly decreased interest and participation due to pure cost, yet we continue to push forward. We have dropped engine lease prices, bought additional cars and teams and kept cars on tour on our own dollar. We did this to keep our word to you guys and to help grow the class. We currently have multiple teams out there that we are running or helping and we feel that we are doing our part. On the other side of all of this action, NHRA has done nothing but harm the class. We have recently heard that you guys have gone as far as tell interested parties not to invest in our class at this point. This does not sound like working together to us.
We would like to also touch on the fact that it is not just the professional classes that have low car counts. The sportsman classes have been affected as well. Look at Competition Eliminator, a class that used to be stacked with entries. Manufacture's midway used to be booming. It was an awesome experience to go to the race and shop the midway for your project cars at home. T-shirt trailers have become scarce as well. At some point, we all have to hold our hand up and take some responsibility. Even when we had 35-40 cars entered in Pro Stock, we were never the star of the show. Not much has changed except the interest and efforts of the NHRA.
In closing, we want you to know just how many people you are impacting with this negative talk. Our programs employ approximately 100 people with wives and children. Over 300 lives will be affected by the decisions you guys seem to be taking so lightly. This is the 5 major teams out there. When you start adding in other teams, we are talking hundreds of more people. We won't even bring up the hundreds of millions of dollars we have personally invested, that can be discussed another time.
Wally Parks created a safe venue for people to race. It is the responsibility of the NHRA to foster the growth and well being of that vision. We obviously have some major problems that need to be discussed and worked on together. As the major players in Pro Stock, we have taken the time to discuss this and we plan to work together to do whatever it takes. In order for this to work, it starts at the top. We are clearly passionate and heavily invested. Lets reach across the aisle, put our differences aside and save the sport. Our sport is phenomenal, its the management we are competing with to keep it alive.
Regards,
Elite Motorsports / Richard Freeman, Erica Enders & Jeg Coughlin Jr.
KB Racing / Jason Line, Greg Anderson & Bo Butner
Harlow Sammons Racing / Chris & Lester McGaha
Johnson & Johnson Racing / Allen & Roy Johnson
Gray Motorsports / Shane & Tanner Gray"
"This paints a dim future for drivers and team owners in the Pro Stock class.
The implemented 8-car fields at nine races next season comes on the heels of a letter that was sent to NHRA President Peter Clifford and NHRA’s management team earlier in the day of Oct. 3. The letter was obtained by Competition Plus and read as follows:
Citing a decline in participation, NHRA has decided nine of 24 races in 2018 will now be 8-car fields.
We would really like to talk to you about several things regarding Pro Stock and the health of the professional classes. From day one, we have been supportive of you guys and your decisions. We have continued to keep a positive attitude even when it affected us adversely. Having said that, we have seen a major shift in attitude and the focus has gone from participation, which we originally discussed in Denver, to "fan appeal". We were a little shocked with the sudden change in direction and we aren't sure exactly what that means. Collectively, we believe that we have a large fan base.
From a media standpoint, we are surrounded by negativity derived from the NHRA. We do the absolute best that we can within the rules that are laid out for us. We are not a boring class and we are not "slot cars". How can you grow fan appeal when Pro Stock is not promoted? We get a fraction of the TV time we should and get zero backing from NHRA when we try to self promote. The NFL, NBA, NHL, PGA, NASCAR, Indy Car etc., have figured out long ago that the athletes/drivers are the draw not the league or sanctioning body.
After our meeting in Charlotte, we have been unable to get a hold of you or Graham despite many attempts. In our humble opinion, this has become more of an attack, rather than a joint effort to fix our class.
This brings us to another point; Pro Stock is being picked on. We are not the only class that has low car counts. Just because Top Fuel and Funny Car have one or two more entries per race, does not mean they are so much better off. At Indy, the biggest race of the year, you had 10 full time racers in Top Fuel and 13 in Funny Car. The rest of the qualifying sheet was made up of one race entries or part time racers. That does not constitute health to us. Without Schumacher, Force and Kalitta, those classes do not exist. We want to make this point because it is clear that Pro Stock is not dying.
We have had more rule changes in the last 3 years than we have had in the history of the class combined. The rule changes were nothing but an expense to the teams and have significantly decreased interest and participation due to pure cost, yet we continue to push forward. We have dropped engine lease prices, bought additional cars and teams and kept cars on tour on our own dollar. We did this to keep our word to you guys and to help grow the class. We currently have multiple teams out there that we are running or helping and we feel that we are doing our part. On the other side of all of this action, NHRA has done nothing but harm the class. We have recently heard that you guys have gone as far as tell interested parties not to invest in our class at this point. This does not sound like working together to us.
We would like to also touch on the fact that it is not just the professional classes that have low car counts. The sportsman classes have been affected as well. Look at Competition Eliminator, a class that used to be stacked with entries. Manufacture's midway used to be booming. It was an awesome experience to go to the race and shop the midway for your project cars at home. T-shirt trailers have become scarce as well. At some point, we all have to hold our hand up and take some responsibility. Even when we had 35-40 cars entered in Pro Stock, we were never the star of the show. Not much has changed except the interest and efforts of the NHRA.
In closing, we want you to know just how many people you are impacting with this negative talk. Our programs employ approximately 100 people with wives and children. Over 300 lives will be affected by the decisions you guys seem to be taking so lightly. This is the 5 major teams out there. When you start adding in other teams, we are talking hundreds of more people. We won't even bring up the hundreds of millions of dollars we have personally invested, that can be discussed another time.
Wally Parks created a safe venue for people to race. It is the responsibility of the NHRA to foster the growth and well being of that vision. We obviously have some major problems that need to be discussed and worked on together. As the major players in Pro Stock, we have taken the time to discuss this and we plan to work together to do whatever it takes. In order for this to work, it starts at the top. We are clearly passionate and heavily invested. Lets reach across the aisle, put our differences aside and save the sport. Our sport is phenomenal, its the management we are competing with to keep it alive.
Regards,
Elite Motorsports / Richard Freeman, Erica Enders & Jeg Coughlin Jr.
KB Racing / Jason Line, Greg Anderson & Bo Butner
Harlow Sammons Racing / Chris & Lester McGaha
Johnson & Johnson Racing / Allen & Roy Johnson
Gray Motorsports / Shane & Tanner Gray"
mikebcurve
Nitro Member
You want Ford and Dodge running in Pro Stock? Find a way to integrate Mountain Motor Pro Stock into the mix. I realize there is the parity issue but I think it would work and there are some very good teams out there looking for a quarter mile playground.
They complained about changes but offered no solutions about 5 years ago when asked by the NRHA. If they gave PS its own 2 hour show nobody will watch because there is no appeal Stop fighting technology and allow it in the sport so new manufactures will come out. Ford is going into a completely different direction and mountain motors and V6 is not going to get them back into dragracing. And the days of building a car in your garage are long gone. Need more forward thinkers in the NHRA to keep things like waiting 20 years to late to run EFI.
TooTall999
Nitro Member
Make Pro Stock similar to the fuel classes. Let competitors run the Chevy motor in any body, and keep the bodies closer to stock configuration.
Marchboom
Nitro Member
Just read NHRA's statement to "work with manufacturers to revive PS" more like how to keep GM onboard.
All GM products even GM will lose interest, developing products to beat themselves
I can see the headlines now. "A Chevrolet loses every round."
FABMAN
Nitro Member
There you go, because of the lack of interest and ignorance of the leaders of NHRA it is pretty obvious that they are trying to end a great class called PS. The owners have invested millions of dollars the last few years to help this class. Hell all Pro and Sportsman racing is expensive but has NHRA helped to balance the cost with better payouts not hardly. If they dump PS it will be very costly and i dont think NHRA will recover from it. If you dont have complete package fans and racers will leave. Now Drag Racing itself is very strong and it will survive. Hell just a few years ago the last race of the year we had a PS final with Erica and Jason for the championship. It is sad in just a couple years they're killing the class.Not sure if anyone else has seen this, it is the racers response to the NHRA cutting fields. It was posted on another race forum,
"This paints a dim future for drivers and team owners in the Pro Stock class.
The implemented 8-car fields at nine races next season comes on the heels of a letter that was sent to NHRA President Peter Clifford and NHRA’s management team earlier in the day of Oct. 3. The letter was obtained by Competition Plus and read as follows:
Citing a decline in participation, NHRA has decided nine of 24 races in 2018 will now be 8-car fields.
We would really like to talk to you about several things regarding Pro Stock and the health of the professional classes. From day one, we have been supportive of you guys and your decisions. We have continued to keep a positive attitude even when it affected us adversely. Having said that, we have seen a major shift in attitude and the focus has gone from participation, which we originally discussed in Denver, to "fan appeal". We were a little shocked with the sudden change in direction and we aren't sure exactly what that means. Collectively, we believe that we have a large fan base.
From a media standpoint, we are surrounded by negativity derived from the NHRA. We do the absolute best that we can within the rules that are laid out for us. We are not a boring class and we are not "slot cars". How can you grow fan appeal when Pro Stock is not promoted? We get a fraction of the TV time we should and get zero backing from NHRA when we try to self promote. The NFL, NBA, NHL, PGA, NASCAR, Indy Car etc., have figured out long ago that the athletes/drivers are the draw not the league or sanctioning body.
After our meeting in Charlotte, we have been unable to get a hold of you or Graham despite many attempts. In our humble opinion, this has become more of an attack, rather than a joint effort to fix our class.
This brings us to another point; Pro Stock is being picked on. We are not the only class that has low car counts. Just because Top Fuel and Funny Car have one or two more entries per race, does not mean they are so much better off. At Indy, the biggest race of the year, you had 10 full time racers in Top Fuel and 13 in Funny Car. The rest of the qualifying sheet was made up of one race entries or part time racers. That does not constitute health to us. Without Schumacher, Force and Kalitta, those classes do not exist. We want to make this point because it is clear that Pro Stock is not dying.
We have had more rule changes in the last 3 years than we have had in the history of the class combined. The rule changes were nothing but an expense to the teams and have significantly decreased interest and participation due to pure cost, yet we continue to push forward. We have dropped engine lease prices, bought additional cars and teams and kept cars on tour on our own dollar. We did this to keep our word to you guys and to help grow the class. We currently have multiple teams out there that we are running or helping and we feel that we are doing our part. On the other side of all of this action, NHRA has done nothing but harm the class. We have recently heard that you guys have gone as far as tell interested parties not to invest in our class at this point. This does not sound like working together to us.
We would like to also touch on the fact that it is not just the professional classes that have low car counts. The sportsman classes have been affected as well. Look at Competition Eliminator, a class that used to be stacked with entries. Manufacture's midway used to be booming. It was an awesome experience to go to the race and shop the midway for your project cars at home. T-shirt trailers have become scarce as well. At some point, we all have to hold our hand up and take some responsibility. Even when we had 35-40 cars entered in Pro Stock, we were never the star of the show. Not much has changed except the interest and efforts of the NHRA.
In closing, we want you to know just how many people you are impacting with this negative talk. Our programs employ approximately 100 people with wives and children. Over 300 lives will be affected by the decisions you guys seem to be taking so lightly. This is the 5 major teams out there. When you start adding in other teams, we are talking hundreds of more people. We won't even bring up the hundreds of millions of dollars we have personally invested, that can be discussed another time.
Wally Parks created a safe venue for people to race. It is the responsibility of the NHRA to foster the growth and well being of that vision. We obviously have some major problems that need to be discussed and worked on together. As the major players in Pro Stock, we have taken the time to discuss this and we plan to work together to do whatever it takes. In order for this to work, it starts at the top. We are clearly passionate and heavily invested. Lets reach across the aisle, put our differences aside and save the sport. Our sport is phenomenal, its the management we are competing with to keep it alive.
Regards,
Elite Motorsports / Richard Freeman, Erica Enders & Jeg Coughlin Jr.
KB Racing / Jason Line, Greg Anderson & Bo Butner
Harlow Sammons Racing / Chris & Lester McGaha
Johnson & Johnson Racing / Allen & Roy Johnson
Gray Motorsports / Shane & Tanner Gray"
It is not an easy decision, look at all the options we have given and we're just knuckleheads. The people involved have just as many if not more sure fire fixes that the person next to them would disagree with. I would have rather them drop a few races, then nix half the class.
I'd like to see them drop the wheelie bars. I liked the wheels up launches when I was a kid. You rarely see a driver get back into it if they have an issue at the start. I want more unpredictability, wheels up, maybe you have to pedal it and drive. If the other lane is now more likely to deal with similar issues then it's more exciting. I feel most runs are over at 60ft.
It's hard to create personality in a driver, especially nowadays when everyone tries to be so media neutral so as to not offend anyone and hurt their image. With that said, our sport as a whole needs some injection of wow. Force was that for years, but now seems...well off. Leah and Torrence have it and Brown, Capps and Beckman are good too. I'm sure there are a few others, if Steve Johnson could only win more he'd be there, but overall we have too many people playing it safe on the mic. In PS, Erica shows life and Tanner will at least bug people with the temper tantrums but there's not much else. You need good guys, bad guys. You need the Yankees or Cowboys to hate, you need the driver(s) to really get behind.
I'm a chevy guy but don't want an entire class of them, do something to allow/encourage more variety.
I'd like to see them drop the wheelie bars. I liked the wheels up launches when I was a kid. You rarely see a driver get back into it if they have an issue at the start. I want more unpredictability, wheels up, maybe you have to pedal it and drive. If the other lane is now more likely to deal with similar issues then it's more exciting. I feel most runs are over at 60ft.
It's hard to create personality in a driver, especially nowadays when everyone tries to be so media neutral so as to not offend anyone and hurt their image. With that said, our sport as a whole needs some injection of wow. Force was that for years, but now seems...well off. Leah and Torrence have it and Brown, Capps and Beckman are good too. I'm sure there are a few others, if Steve Johnson could only win more he'd be there, but overall we have too many people playing it safe on the mic. In PS, Erica shows life and Tanner will at least bug people with the temper tantrums but there's not much else. You need good guys, bad guys. You need the Yankees or Cowboys to hate, you need the driver(s) to really get behind.
I'm a chevy guy but don't want an entire class of them, do something to allow/encourage more variety.
mick
Nitro Member
have posted this before, more than once i think.......IMO this is where PS should go.....body fits templates, wider slicks,
with engine mods.....high 7 sec. cars.....and have the racers write the rules so the class doesn't outspend itself in
just a few years......very quick. very entertaining. super fun to drive.
with engine mods.....high 7 sec. cars.....and have the racers write the rules so the class doesn't outspend itself in
just a few years......very quick. very entertaining. super fun to drive.
Ice Bucket
Nitro Member
Just food for thought, to at least get away from a total Camaro field, what about using a single engine platform? Obviously the Nitro and Alky ranks use a morphed hemi and Pro Mod engines dont match the body style, why wouldn't it work for Pro Stock? Sure, it would defeat the original intention of the class, but there has not been any real or proper factory support for years. Obviously the GM based power plants have the most available parts, technology and engine builders familiar with the platform. Ford has been gone for the past 20+ years outside of a failed attempted a few years ago with Larry Morgan and it looks like Mopar is out, leaving no real options for multiple engine platforms. Not to mention, with how competitive PS is in this era, I dont think we would ever see complete level playing field with multiple brands, even with factory support. Just a thought, while not ideal, I am trying to figure out how to get my fix of heads up, naturally aspirated, 5-speed racing! It would at least add some variety to the class.
Sean D, shondoo
Nitro Member
This is where I'm at with it. Although, like Richard stated, I would rather them be 5-speed cars.
Sean D
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