New NHRA Nitro 'Spec' Engine for Top Fuel and Funny Cars

[yoda]

Gotta agree with you there, Christopher- most of the folks in the stands don't really having too much of a clue past "Go Fast, Be Loud"..

 

[Bill]

Christopher Williams said:''Getting to the finish line first within the rules. It's called winning."

But, I didn't say anything about "winning."

I said "outrunning somebody." Big difference...

Eliminate the breakout on the final round and win the Eliminator. THEN you'll be outrunning somebody (if you win.)

Also, I never said it was easy (winning a .90s eliminator.) It's INCREDIBLY hard. The micro-second victories in those classes challenge the technology of the timing systems to determine a winner. It takes monumental skill and practice, and nerves of steel to win a .90s eliminator; I am not denying that. May even be harder than some of the so-called "performance-based" eliminators. Nobody's contesting the difficulty of it.

That doesn't mean it's fun to watch, especially as it exists, today.

What I am saying is, there is no "performance incentive" involved beyond consistency, because you are limited as to what your e.t. can be. I'm aware that some people (a LOT of people) build high HP cars so their MPH will be astronomical at the finish line so they can "drive the stripe" from behind, but that's just their preference... not a necessity. You can take the 600+ hp engine out of an A Stock car and put it in a 2,000-pound dragster and run 8.70s all day long. BFD...

In addition to that, the absurd-looking trip down the quarter-mile that active throttle stops create is anathema to most spectators. Half of them can't figure out what is going on, and the other half are disgusted to the point of nausea.

.90 class racing MIGHT gain some spectator interest if NHRA would set speed limits in these classes to reasonable levels (say, 140-mph for Super Gas and 160 for Super Comp) and do away with the active throttle stops.

But, we both know that that's probably never gonna happen. So, .90-class racing will continue to be a non-entity insofar as spectator interest goes.

I really like your ideas about attempting to educate the fans; I think that it would make a big difference in fan involvement if they knew a little of what was going on out there. Wouldn't be that hard.... and, as you pointed out, there's ample opportunity.

Bill

 

[clwill]

At every national event I go to, I stay for the .90 classes (yes, because we compete in the class). I always take the few minutes it takes to educate the person next to me who says "WTF is this?"

By the time I'm done, they always say something like "Holy cow, that's incredible. How do they do it?" When you explain that it's not that uncommon for people to put together a package under a hundredth and lose, they can't believe it. But I can only educate a few people a year. NHRA can/should do thousands.

 

[clwill]

What I am saying is, there is no "performance incentive" involved beyond consistency, because you are limited as to what your e.t. can be.

Wow. You make it sound like people set up a car to run .90 and just roll it off the trailer at each event. That's another common misconception. It's not about consistency, because all the other variables change. The density altitude, the wind, the track prep, the bump in the left lane, the opponent, and so on. Everything that is drag racing conspires to make every single run different, and to make running that 0.015 package you just pulled an incredible achievement.

Again, because so few people really understand it, it looks "nauseating" as you put it. Ugh.

 

[James]

Well,after reading ALL this. I think we can ALL agree.. There will NEVER be another Phoenix 1992.

 

[Bill]

Wow. You make it sound like people set up a car to run .90 and just roll it off the trailer at each event. That's another common misconception. It's not about consistency, because all the other variables change. The density altitude, the wind, the track prep, the bump in the left lane, the opponent, and so on. Everything that is drag racing conspires to make every single run different, and to make running that 0.015 package you just pulled an incredible achievement.QUOTE]

Christopher,

When I said "consistency," I was referring to the fact that you have to CONSISTENTLY run an 8.90, or you'll get beat.

Of course, in order to be able to do that, you have to compensate for changing conditions as you pointed out; temperature, density altitude, and all the other weather-related issues that make dialing a car difficult, along with track conditions.

I believe I said it was "incredibly difficult," did I not, to win? It surely is...

But, it's nothing like trying your best to pick up another ten horsepower within the confines of the rules in a car that has restrictions on everything it takes to MAKE power, like the cars in the performance-based classes and eliminators do. They may have a heads-up race with no breakout against a car that just beat them the previous week by three-quarters of a car-length.

What to do????

Remember; no breakouts in heads-up racing in the Stock and Super Stock classes. No breakouts at any time in Comp. First car to the finish line wins.. regardless.

THAT is the sort of dilemma that .90 cars don't, and will never, have to face. If you want your car to pick up a tenth, you can do a dozen things to make it faster that are off-limits to the Stocker, for instance.

Outrunning somebody in a pure drag race is not EVER within the purview of a .90s car because of the breakout rule.

It's hard enough to win the way it is... I understand that.

However, winning the race isn't "outrunning" somebody; it's beating them, for sure, but not "outrunning" them.

Or, am I splitting hairs???

Bill

 

[sdwarf36]

Wow-206 posts + not one mention of Skuza..oh s**t-I just did- now we got to start over.

 

[Tim5636sc]

Meanwhile, back at the Ranch...
testing should begin monday. Anyone want to set the line on what performance numbers this combo might reach?

Oh and yes Bill you are splitting hairs...MR Williams, Winning in super class racing is ALL about adapting to all those variables and being consistant in your process ...SHERMAN! Skuza should compete in aa/a in comp eliminator and receive a 'because he is the coolest drag racer EVER' exemption for entry to any National Event...and finally...YES. THERE WILL NEVER BE ANOTHER PHOENIX 92!

 

[none]

Sorry Timmah......test date moved:

Drag Racing Internet Magazine - Competition Plus.com - NITRO SPEC TEST MOVED TO BRISTOL

 

[Tim5636sc]

Sorry Timmah......test date moved:

Drag Racing Internet Magazine - Competition Plus.com - NITRO SPEC TEST MOVED TO BRISTOL

ha ha. Yeah 'THE BOSS' dropped the hammer on my foot! Oh well.

 

[James]

Meanwhile, back at the Ranch...
testing should begin monday. Anyone want to set the line on what performance numbers this combo might reach?

If they get a full pull in I'm guessing 5.00 @ 290 in a FC.

 

[Bill]

Damn these split ends!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[clwill]

Or, am I splitting hairs???

Yes

Chris

 

[Toejam]

If they get a full pull in I'm guessing 5.00 @ 290 in a FC.

Jerry Newman was saying those specs were Late 80's standards, which would be 5.40's for a FC!

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Well lets see now, nhra is lookin to lower speed. First test for "SPEC" nitro engine in a F/C Mon. after Bristol.....( I love a guessing game.)

I'll guess 275 MPH

 

[Nunz]

The Agent over at DRO is reporting the test has been canceled, with a big reason the opposition to a spec motor by the current teams. Has this been canceled or moved/delayed?

 

[Bobby Bennett]

The test was delayed due to parts availability. The test has been rescheduled for Bristol.

 

[Treeshaker]

"Although the official position is that parts can’t be obtained for the engine, the Agent hears that the real reason is a direct protest to the NHRA from several major team owners concerning the enormous cost (upwards of $2,000,000 according to one owner) a new spec engine would mean for their teams. The Agent would not be surprised if that whole deal just went silent. [5/1/2009]"

Sensationalism at it's best (or worst). Let's look at the costs to change a car over:

1. Remove one mag, coil and box - a savings.

2. Plugs for one set of spark plugs - $150.00, or just use a used plug and then it is free.

3. Gears to make fuel pump smaller - $2,000.00 if new, but most teams probably have the gears from earlier.

4. 3.50 rear gear - $1,200.00 I am guessing as I haven't bought a rear gear in a while.

5. Crankshaft - $3850.00 now, or maybe with the short stroke and 3.50 gear they will find they can get away with the forgings that many NFC cars are running with great success that cost $975.00 balanced, ready to run.

6. Longer rods - $1,120.00 set

7. Pullies to obtain 15% overdrive - $400.00

8. Remove a clutch disc and floater - Savings

9. MSD to take rev limiter out - $200.00

Did I miss something? What I have listed comes to less than $9,000.00. I know you need multiples of some items, but those are perishable items (cranks and rods) anyways.

Some teams have went to .100 tall blocks with the .100 tall head to get a longer rod in the motor now, so for less cost than that took, they can reduce the deck height by .375 and use the same rods with about the same stroke/rod length ratio. There will be savings when the blower is ran at 15% with belts and blower cases. The costs of the blowers can't go much higher for r&d than what the teams are doing presently, I wouldn't think, but I have been wrong before.

I can't see even a five car team being able to spend $500,000.00, even if they are being extravagant with a lot of testing included.

I believe that once testing starts, changes will be made and there will be less parts that need to be changed and the costs will be lower.

 

[Toby]

Wow-206 posts + not one mention of Skuza..oh s**t-I just did- now we got to start over.

that's funny, i don't care who you are.


Bill.......turbo cars go boom, and the pop-off valve POP POP POP at the starting line is obnoxious (IMHO)

Watching a OPS (either Outlaw Pro Street, or Old Piece of Sh1t whatever the initials stand for) get on the boost about 100ft is impressive, just not as impressive as a nitro car dropping the hammer from an idle.

I think the teams that will b1tch the most will be the teams that have the largest operating budgets and R/D departments, because they will be on the same footing as everyone else, at least for a while.

I'd put a lot of stock in what Virgil says....he's been around the Nitro block a couple of times.

 

[Nunz]

Great post Virgil. I was curious about that, I haven't run a fuel car yet, but those numbers seemed out of line. No matter how current teams fight this type of proposal, I'm convinced this type of action will mean increased participation in the fuel classes in the future.