Is Ray Alley still the crew chief?

[Nitrohelper]

One thing to remember about Crew Chiefs & Ball Coaches, "you can't fire the Owner , or the whole team ". Many Nitro Tuner deals are per race, no contracts. Travel and per diem only .
Crew members and chiefs have been "left" at race tracks on a Sunday nite. Their suitcase is pitched in the street, it's called an " Eastcoast Send-off ". No last check either.
So when you are offered $10,000 a race while you making $5000 and , , those smaller checks come slow & late !
Then were you stolen away or did YOU make a " business " decision ? ? ?

I know a DEI (taxi's) shop worker contract is seven pages. And for an engine builder there is a two year "no other team" clause. Thats for 52 weeks and real benefits, plus a small percentage of the prize money. (3 cars)

 

[mike cummings]

And for an engine builder there is a two year "no other team" clause. Thats for 52 weeks and real benefits, plus a small percentage of the prize money. (3 cars)

Maybe the same sort of contract will start being used by teams who want to retain their talent.

If I was working for a company that offered no long term guarantee of employment and was approached by another company who was offering me guaranteed employment for x number of months/years with a better salary and benefits package, I would make the move.

Team/company loyalty is one thing, but it doesn't pay the mortgage of you have no guarantee of employment.

 

[r2]

Has everyone forgotten the Whit/DSR contract??
That is why I was a bit shocked that T.O.'s name was mentioned in the first place...
Silly rumors...

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

. . .If I was working for a company that offered no long term guarantee of employment and was approached by another company who was offering me guaranteed employment for x number of months/years with a better salary and benefits package, I would make the move.

Sounds like the exact opposite conditions under which Ray Alley came to work with the new KB team, huh? He left a life-long career with NHRA and is now fishing in Cabo San Lucas a few weeks later unemployed. Do you really believe Jimmy's security to be better documented than Rays if two races from here if KBs still unqualified? I doubt Jimmy's overnight deal was any more secure than Ray's career departure was but since I haven't read either contract we'll just have to speculate.

 

[T.Smith]

That's what some of you don't realize...some of these teams could fold tomorrow...if you get a chance to work for a solid established team that is going to pay you good money..then you take it. Those type of crew chief jobs are few and far in between.

It must have been a pretty good offer if Tuttle and Knoll didn't match it.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

As good as Ray Alley's deal?

 

[T.Smith]

Hey Doc, with the lack of talented enough people to tune one of these cars into the 4.40s, you would think a owner would be smart enough to get that tuner under contract...with a large buyout clause....but has anyone ever thought maybe Tuttle couldn't afford to pay Jimmy Walsh what he was worth?

 

[T.Smith]

As good as Ray Alley's deal?

I would think so. He has certainly done the things necessary to be considered for such a job. The Tim and Kim connection is also a no brainer.

 

[TJ]

Bobby...good point but Ray has never had a contract w/ KB....Ray and Kenny are best buds....you will find him in the pits w/ KB in the future....Ray tried and took alot of shots for stepping up...Alley never said they'd be a contender....everyone else did because he was employed by the NHRA....
Alley made/makes more money w/ the racepak rights and sales to ever be desperate for a job on a fuel team.......
Most here would be amazed and how little these mechanics earn...

And to Tony...BINGO...Tuttles team could be parked tomorrow morning where KB is going no where....Check back in 2-5 years and see if Tuttle and JR Todd are even involved in fuel racing....
Comparing Tuttles operation to Bernsteins deal is like comparing apples to oranges.....

 

[Gordon]

Comparing Tuttles operation to Bernsteins deal is like comparing apples to oranges...

Perhaps, but having one of the main ingredients in your recent (last 13 races) success taken out from under you most certainly doesn't help your ability to grow a Bernsteinesque type of operation, does it?

 

[I was NITRO BREATH]

WOW--- I just read the entire 17+ pages on this thread. And I have run the gamut from outrage with KB, to pissed at J Walsh, to understanding the motivations on all sides, to being educated on the tenuousness of a small team tuners life expectancy. I guess i came away with the following feelings. Life sucks, business sucks even more, and while we are all told to grow up and face reality we never really do. This could and should be the subject for an ethics or philosophy course. That all said , the hopeless idealist in me, feels disappointment at KB and sad for JR .Although I probably would have done the same they did given the oppurtunity. So......

 

[MaC]

Bobby M,

I would not characterize R.A.'s involvement with NHRA a "life long career". The job he held came along very late in his life and not all that long ago, time wise.

Ray had been a most successful racer/businessman for many, many years before any thought was ever given to working for NHRA.

He has owned property in Cabo for a number of years and has been a frequent visitor to his second home for quite some time, much before NHRA.

His friendship with KB dates back to Kenny's first funny car days, with Alley owning not only the car, but the company that was emblazoned on the side, Engine Masters, that helped propel Kenny into the funny car category with some rather successful results.

I do not know Ray's exact age but feel very confident saying he is old than I am<VBG>.

MaC

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Thanks Dave,
I understand that Ray wasn't desperately in need of KBs crew chief position to continue to exist. I was more referring to his longevity in that position in comparison to Jimmy's future given the same results?

Terry,
I'm impressed with your knowledge of the inner-workings of everyone's contracts and financial positions. You must be really close to these guys to speak as well as you do for them. I'm especially surprised to see the Tuttle's operation could be parked tomorrow morning given the fact that they've been in the fuel car or fuel boat business for a number of decades? I'm confused as to which you are -- their accountant or financial planner?

 

[Nitrohaulic]

Somebody.............PLEASE lure Alan Johnson away!!!

He was more than available before Don hooked up with him if you had the right deal. Alan was nice enough to help me with some pointers when I was working on something that didn't pan out. Speaking to what some of you are, a company's stability was as important to him as anything. I guess so many dollars a race isn't going to mean much if the company closes doors in five months.

 

[Eracer]

Why is everyone throwing Kenny under the bus? Jimmy Walsh said Yes.

 

[The Counterfeiter]

Hey Doc, with the lack of talented enough people to tune one of these cars into the 4.40s, you would think a owner would be smart enough to get that tuner under contract...with a large buyout clause....but has anyone ever thought maybe Tuttle couldn't afford to pay Jimmy Walsh what he was worth?

T - two very perceptive thoughts. I learned last weekend that tuning a fuel car is much more complicated than most of us could have realized.
And - depending on the situation, a crew chief could also be the team manager. It's quickly becoming obvious that there is a shortage of people who can handle all of this.
Did Jimmy leave because Dexter couldn't match KB's offer? We'll never know.
I constantly hear that most of the top NHRA teams title sponsorships are $500K or much less for the entire season. So . . . we have several very successful business people who are actually running on their own ticket.
I can GUARANTEE you that the minimum to sponsor a NASCAR top ten team is $25 million. It's going to be very interesting to see if all of the NHRA high rollers make it through the entire season.

 

[Jay]

T - two very perceptive thoughts. I learned last weekend that tuning a fuel car is much more complicated than most of us could have realized.
And - depending on the situation, a crew chief could also be the team manager. It's quickly becoming obvious that there is a shortage of people who can handle all of this.
Did Jimmy leave because Dexter couldn't match KB's offer? We'll never know.
I constantly hear that most of the top NHRA teams title sponsorships are $500K or much less for the entire season. So . . . we have several very successful business people who are actually running on their own ticket.
I can GUARANTEE you that the minimum to sponsor a NASCAR top ten team is $25 million. It's going to be very interesting to see if all of the NHRA high rollers make it through the entire season.

Jim....FYI...the annual budget for a Top 10 T/F team is in the $2,250,000 -$2,500,000 range, and add about $250,000 for a Funny Car...

Now, there ARE some deas out there that are Primary Sponsorships that are in the $500,000-$1,000,000 range, but that is NOT close to what these teams spend...I'll bet KB is getting $3,000,000+ and I am POSITIVE that JFR spends in excess of $10,000,000...WELL in excess...

 

[Nitrohaulic]

I've heard everything from mid hundred thousands to mid millions, both from someone who knew.

 

[Jay]

I've heard everything from mid hundred thousands to mid millions, both from someone who knew.

That in theory is correct....But its pretty hard to spend less than $1,000,000 to run these cars and actually make the show..In fact, NOW it is harder than ever..

Many of these teams are heavily subsidized by their owners...A great example of that is Bob Gilbertson..I know what he gets from Prestone (out of respect for Bob, I will not divulge the figure..), and trust me, many of us make more than that every year...You would be shocked...

When Baca had American Racing a few years ago, that deal was barely over $100,000...He gave them the Primary Position, because he thought it would be more credible in his search for sponsorship, if his team had the image of already being sponsored..In some ways I agree with that, but I would approach it differently...

If I were in those same shoes, I would have a HUGE "YOUR COMPANY HERE" up the side of my car.....Seriously..Like THAT wouldn't attract attention that you were clearly were looking for a sponsor...? And if the car was making the shows and running half way decent, you certainly would get some play....Trust me, I've done it and it works pretty well if done right...

Jay

 

[r2]

That in theory is correct....But its pretty hard to spend less than $1,000,000 to run these cars and actually make the show..In fact, NOW it is harder than ever..

Many of these teams are heavily subsidized by their owners...A great example of that is Bob Gilbertson..I know what he gets from Prestone (out of respect for Bob, I will not divulge the figure..), and trust me, many of us make more than that every year...You would be shocked...

When Baca had American Racing a few years ago, that deal was barely over $100,000...He gave them the Primary Position, because he thought it would be more credible in his search for sponsorship, if his team had the image of already being sponsored..In some ways I agree with that, but I would approach it differently...

If I were in those same shoes, I would have a HUGE "YOUR COMPANY HERE" up the side of my car.....Seriously..Like THAT wouldn't attract attention that you were clearly were looking for a sponsor...? And if the car was making the shows and running half way decent, you certainly would get some play....Trust me, I've done it and it works pretty well if done right...

Jay

It's funny you should mention that Jay... When I did all of Baca's Alcohol renderings, I would put "YOUR COMPANY HERE" or "SPONSOR NEEDED" and he would just laugh and make me change it... I guess I had the right idea, just the wrong customer...
WHO KNEW!! I thought it would work...
Thanks for making me feel better... THANKS!!