Is Ray Alley still the crew chief? (1 Viewer)

[67 Cuda]

You're right, but I understand Terry's point of view too.

Still, I don't care how financially successful a man or woman becomes... If they had to hurt, undermine or otherwise negatively affect others to do it, then it just doesn't impress me. I'm sorry, that's how I feel.

What continues to amaze me is the fact that sponsors spend their money on 300+ M.P.H. billboards in order to sell a product to us, the fans - not to qualify in the top half or win rounds. Sure, those goals should be side benefits and perhaps even stated goals, but credibility & integrity will (read: "SHOULD") sell more products than any qualifying efforts or round/race wins. Do you really go out and buy Oakley because Gary Scelzi wins a race? No, you buy them because of your respect for Jim Jannard and the product he sells. Yet, more and more fans are willing to accept these perceived negative business practices as the norm. Well, not me.

As another example, if Jeg Coughlin never wins another round of racing I'll continue to shop at Jeg's because of the way the Coughlin's carry themselves on a daily basis.

Perhaps this horse seems to have been kicked well beyond death, but to me it's at the heart of the future of drag racing in general and the world as a whole. Maybe I've finally lost it, who knows?

I think most sponsors want their "rolling billboards" to make rounds. (Be a winner) If you are not winning and going rounds you are going to have a hard time keeping the $$$$ coming in. You will not get a lot of TV coverage by not making the show and not making rounds unless you are doing something out of the ordinary. Most people prefer winners over losers.

 

[Four Kalitta]

Terry,

YOU DON'T KNOW SH$T ABOUT CONNIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, brother-in-laws sister, you tell em'!!!!!!

 

[Gordon]

Almost everyone here would leave their current place of employment for a huge pay raise and a solid contract.

Being a hired driver is a sketchy gig today. Unless you come onboard w/ money (like Cory M) you could be removed from the seat anytime. Very few hired guns have contracts that are binding... most just love to drive fuel cars...

Terry, perhaps you're right that most would leave for better money - but I'm not on that list. I've been in the Navy for 21 1/2 years as an air traffic controller while folks I went to school with are tower controllers at O'Hare, or TRACON controllers in Northern CA, or Center controllers in Salt Lake City... Who do you think is getting the bigger payday every two weeks? Hint: It's not me. Granted, it's my choice & I don't begrudge them for doing what they do. In fact, I have nothing but respect for them. I'm merely making the point that it isn't (or shouldn't) always be about money, and with me it's not. Of course the Capitalistic system we have in place in this country says otherwise. But I will continue to contend that one can pursue and achieve financial success without necessarily hurting others.

As for your comment on hired drivers - I agree wholeheartedly. Being a huge Brady Kalivoda fan I know all too well the insecurities and monetary politics surrounding hired guns in the fuel categories.

 

[TJ]

Gordon.....good post and I understand your position but what if your current day-to-day job was not solid? Meaning you could be laid off tomorrow....but what if you were offered the same job position, more money and a long-term contract w/ little geographical location change?
You'd accept the offer as would I if in that position...

 

[Gordon]

I think most sponsors want their "rolling billboards" to make rounds. (Be a winner) If you are not winning and going rounds you are going to have a hard time keeping the $$$$ coming in. You will not get a lot of TV coverage by not making the show and not making rounds unless you are doing something out of the ordinary. Most people prefer winners over losers.

Agreed, but being a winner doesn't necessarily amount to winning rounds. And I reiterate what I wrote, qualifying and winning rounds should be stated goals for any team.

I think Monster was getting plenty o' ink during the first two races of the season. And I'll reiterate something I wrote a while back in this thread - I had a lot more respect for the struggling Kenny Bernstein (and I was willing to purchase Monster) than I'm going to have if he suddenly comes out and starts qualifying and winning rounds as a result of this action (and I will NOT buy Monster). He was working hard and he made me want him and the team to find the answers and succeed - this wasn't what I had in mind & now I hope he continues to struggle...

 

[Gordon]

Gordon.....good post and I understand your position but what if your current day-to-day job was not solid? Meaning you could be laid off tomorrow....but what if you were offered the same job position, more money and a long-term contract w/ little geographical location change?
You'd accept the offer as would I if in that position...

Terry,

Point taken - and yes, I would. Perhaps I'm starting to see the light...

I'm still not happy with KB though.

P.S. I've really enjoyed this debate. It's been civil, enlightening, educating and enjoyable. I hope I'm not alone in this opinion.

 

[TJ]

How can you be unhappy w/ KB? An employer offers a position to a new applicant and the deal is made....No biggie,,,Aren't you upset w/ Walsh...
There are still three other current crew chiefs KB was/is still looking @. If you were a team owner w/ a top notch team and leader you'd make sure to secure them w/ someone like Kenny jumping back into the ranks.
Some don't like to say it but the name BERNSTEIN has huge respect from their peers....probably more than anyone else...

 

[TAFC 5 81]

Well if Walsh does not work out, maybe KB can lure Armstrong from Toliver.

 

[Gordon]

I'm starting to accept Jimmy's decision because as you said, if someone offered more money to do the same job (and maybe even a little more job security), then I understand his decision - if that is, in fact, what happened.

KB on the other hand has done nothing but stir the pot since his announced return to the sport as a driver. First he hires the director of Top Fuel/Funny Car operations from NHRA after he's been looking at and inspecting everyone's stuff for years. Although, 1) it obviously didn't matter, and 2) given the recent and potential changes in the fuel categories perhaps this will turn out to be a good thing. (See: The recent acceptance of the mono-strut wing in TF. See also: the very real possibility of returning to 90% nitro in the tank... as examples.) Now he hires away a crew chief who's been making noise with a young gun in TF, seemingly without regard for the impact on the young gun's team. It just seems foul to me, that's all.

Gotta get to work - I look forward to seeing what happens on here throughout the rest of the day.

 

[johnny]

How can you be unhappy w/ KB? An employer offers a position to a new applicant and the deal is made....No biggie,,,Aren't you upset w/ Walsh...
There are still three other current crew chiefs KB was/is still looking @. If you were a team owner w/ a top notch team and leader you'd make sure to secure them w/ someone like Kenny jumping back into the ranks.
Some don't like to say it but the name BERNSTEIN has huge respect from their peers....probably more than anyone else...

Since Kenny's business ethics have always been debatable, you'd think anybody who could have, would have prepared for this eventuality.

Personally I'm not mad at Kenny, and I wouldn't drink Monster regardless of circumstance. It is dissappointing, however, that Tuttle was either unprotected with regards to legal obligation or, unable to respond in a manner to keep Walsh and his team intact.

With regards to cause and effect, Kenny could be a potential huge winner in this deal. In one fell swoop, he upgrades his Funny Car team and diminishes the competition in Top Fuel, where he also competes as an owner. Time will tell.

 

[mike cummings]

a quick question to all of those who think Bernstein is a slimeball for hiring (not stealing) Walsh away from Tuttle's team.

Are you upset just because you are a huge fan of Todd or would you be equally upset if he was able to lure Johnson away from Shumacher's team, or Coil, Fedderly, Medlin or Prock from Force's team ?

 

[Gordon]

a quick question to all of those who think Bernstein is a slimeball for hiring (not stealing) Walsh away from Tuttle's team.

Are you upset just because you are a huge fan of Todd or would you be equally upset if he was able to lure Johnson away from Shumacher's team, or Coil, Fedderly, Medlin or Prock from Force's team ?

That's an easy one Mike - I'd feel exactly the same way.

 

[Suzie Q]

Somebody.............PLEASE lure Alan Johnson away!!!

 

[Gordon]

Somebody.............PLEASE lure Alan Johnson away!!!

LMAO... I assume you prefer he get lured away to Pro Stock so Scotty wouldn't have to deal with him either, huh?

Whereas I'm not a huge Doug Kalitta fan, I do hope he wins it all this year - he is a class act & has more than paid his dues...

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

How can you be unhappy w/ KB? An employer offers a position to a new applicant and the deal is made....No biggie,,,Aren't you upset w/ Walsh...

Let's ask the questions that haven't been addressed as far as I've seen:
Was Walsh an open applicant as you indicate?

How does Dexter or Brad or even JR or the team feel about this most recent maneuver of KBs? How would you feel if it was you?

to further elaborate:

How would Don Schumacher/Beckman/MTS feel if KB had successfully hired away Todd Okuhara or worse yet, lured Alan Johnson away in stead of Jimmy Walsh?

There's a lot more to consider than KBs success, Monster's ROI, the qualifying issues, Ray Alley's mis-ques, etc. There are people to consider - those who will be constituents in the business for the duration of your career. It appears from what we've seen here that such people are of no concern to "mr. business" as he's been referred to. It's a "take no prisoners" approach that I disagree with.

take this from another perspective:

How would KB feel if The Tuttles unexpectedly hired Tim and Kim away in the very same fashion from KB this past three days with a much more lucrative offer?

I just don't buy the "such is the nature of business" BS. We are dealing with people first and money will always take a back seat to that in my world.

Is that's the "Success" you speak of with KB? I'll want no part of it!

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Looks like I was typing while a few similar posts came in?
I need to think & type faster?

 

[d'kid]

Mike, the answer is yes, if during the season, if it happened off season, (Late Oct to the first part of the year) then that would be a different story. And not because I'm a JR fan... the exception would be a close personal friend whom you've had a relationship with over many years... ie Jim B. and Doug H.

 

[Suzie Q]

Yes Gordon, but I would prefer he go to Pro Stock Bike instead!!! That way we are all safe! He could always come over to the Kalitta team. That would be fine with me!!!

I really hope Doug pulls it off this year. This new points system really worries me!

 

[Brian]

I'll wade in one more time on this.

I don't blame Jimmy Walsh at all. As has been said many times on this thread, if someone offered any of us more money, benefits, security or whatever to do exactly the same thing we're doing, we would take it.

Kenny hasn't done anything ethically wrong by using his resources to better his situation. We would all do that as well, if we could.

I'm upset as a drag racing fan. JR is one of the best and brightest stars we have right now. Our sport needs all the positive exposure we can get. So when one of our former stars who has formally retired twice, stirs things up in such a negative way for his personal gain, I think it's sad. When a team loses a crew chief like this, it takes a long time to recover if they ever do. I hope JR and his team are the exception but at the moment I don't have a good feeling about it.

 

[johnny]

a quick question to all of those who think Bernstein is a slime ball for hiring (not stealing) Walsh away from Tuttle's team.

Truthfully, Kenny and "slime ball" were synonymous to many long before this issue.

I personally, don't have an opinion (with regards to Kenny) with so little facts being made public, however, it's my feeling that this is a bad deal for all of the principles, including the fans.