Is Ray Alley still the crew chief? (1 Viewer)

[Bazzil]

It's kind of strange that whenever he was interviewed by ESPN during the first two races KB was quick to credit the support from the fans, I wonder if he still feels that way after this thread? This latest move by KB combined with the upcoming Rock Star sponsorship of Toliver, makes it an easy decision as to which energy drink to buy.

You seem to be looking past the fact that the IDRC (Internet Drag Racing Community) make up a very small percentage of people who watch drag racing, whether at the track or on TV.

The majority of fans don't know (or care) what allegedly happens behind the scenes.

I mean, I'm sure the commentators will make mention of it, but I doubt your average Joe Blow sitting there with his wife and kids indulging in an overpriced hot dog will start bellowing about Bernstein doing this and that and being greedy and whatever else people are crying about.

 

[Gordon]

Without a contract, integrity is a non-issue.

I disagree - with a contract integrity wouldn't have been an issue because he wouldn't have had the option to leave - his contract, in theory, would've prevented it. Integrity exists when a contract isn't required and you can take a man at his word. And that, my friends, is sorely missed in today's "business world." But that's just one man's opinion - mine.

 

[Gordon]

You seem to be looking past the fact that the IDRC (Internet Drag Racing Community) make up a very small percentage of people who watch drag racing, whether at the track or on TV.

The majority of fans don't know (or care) what allegedly happens behind the scenes.

Perhaps you're right. But if one were to take the number of folks on this site alone who are clearly displeased with this situation and expanded it proportionately across the drag racing fan-base, one might conclude that Monster Energy Drinks may be in for a rude awakening. Having said that, maybe I'm wrong.

Look, I know and accept that folks will disagree with me, but I personally choose to associate with people who have integrity - both in their personal and "corporate" lives and I'd like to think I'm not alone - but again, perhaps I'm wrong.

 

[Bazzil]

Perhaps you're right. But if one were to take the number of folks on this site alone who are clearly displeased with this situation and expanded it proportionately across the drag racing fan-base, one might conclude that Monster Energy Drinks may be in for a rude awakening. Having said that, maybe I'm wrong.

Look, I know and accept that folks will disagree with me, but I personally choose to associate with people who have integrity - both in their personal and "corporate" lives and I'd like to think I'm not alone - but again, perhaps I'm wrong.

That could well be the case, but then again us "hardcore internet fans" are often "educated" (or at least we like to think we are) on the details of these sorts of situations, whereas average folk aren't. They see it as some guy left one team to go to another, just like they have probably left one job to go to another. There was a post a few pages back where a guy listed a bunch of similar situations. Was their massive fan backlash against those guys and their sponsors?

This might be a strange analogy, but being a life long wrestling fan (laugh all you like ) the internet is often ripe with rumors about "backstage politics" and "backstage bullying" and all that sort of stuff, that the internet fans will often get upset over but the average guy sitting in the crowd couldn't give a shit about.

I mean it can extend to many things. Does the average family that sits down and watches Lost every week care about what's happening with the actors contracts? No. But you can bet your arse there's a heap of forums with big arse threads talking about it.

The Toliver/KB/Monster situation. Did the average fan care about that?

And yes, there is a bit of a drug problem over here. Thanks for inquiring.

 

[Gordon]

I mean it can extend to many things. Does the average family that sits down and watches Lost every week care about what's happening with the actors contracts? No. But you can bet your arse there's a heap of forums with big arse threads talking about it.

Reminds me of a quote from Merlin - aka: Alan Johnson (and I'm paraphrasing here)... "Believe about 1/2 of the things you read in the newspaper & NOTHING you read on the internet."

Your point is well taken though. Time will tell...

 

[johnny]

I disagree - with a contract integrity wouldn't have been an issue because he wouldn't have had the option to leave - his contract, in theory, would've prevented it. Integrity exists when a contract isn't required and you can take a man at his word. And that, my friends, is sorely missed in today's "business world." But that's just one man's opinion - mine.

What "word"? There is an assumption that Walsh had an agreement that was more than race to race. I agree with your presentation that contracts work in theory. The problem, in my opinion, is that sometimes integrity is tested when the "green grass" offer becomes apparent and the contracted individual chases the "shiny object". To opt out is where the issue begins.

Isn't it at all possible, after the Bernstein job became available, Walsh called Tuttle and offered him the right of first refusal in spite of the fact there was only a handshake arrangement. If so, I'd offer, that was a fair and prudent gesture.

Without contracts, there is no "business world".

 

[yoda]

Perhaps you're right. But if one were to take the number of folks on this site alone who are clearly displeased with this situation and expanded it proportionately across the drag racing fan-base, one might conclude that Monster Energy Drinks may be in for a rude awakening. Having said that, maybe I'm wrong...

You might not be too far off Gordon... Today I'm visiting with my buddy Scott- alot like me: lifelong drag fan, good knowledge of what it takes to get a car down the track, would like to sink a buttload of money into the sport if he had it if it meant he could have some fun, has his particular favorites- some of which have been for as long as I've known him...

Anyway, he is NOT like us, in the terms of getting his info from the Internet- he prefers to go to the races with his camper for the weekend and have a good time- his schedule doesn't allow him to surf as much as some of us here for up-to-the-minute drag information.. He'll catch what he knows from the track or the TV broadcasts, and I still consider him pretty knowlegable about the sport.

I told him about the KB situation- Jimmy coming over as crewchief and leaving JR/Tuttle kinda hangin (as far as we know, at this moment). KB was on Scott's list of all time favs, but his attitude about this was all down on Bernstein; not on Tuttle for not offering more $$, not on Jimmy for having the integrity to stay... It was focused on Bernstein about how he could steal somebody's crewchief, especially from a team that was starting to show promise.

If Scott is like that percentage of fans that you are mentioning, Monster may see a minor, if any, hickup at their end. The person taking the majority of this hit from the perspective I saw today will be the man doing the hiring. It may not be fair, but there is a guarantee that someone will not come out smelling like a rose after all this, and not just because of a few fans on the Internet. This, when it goes "public" will need really good spin from SOMEBODY to help keep Mr. Bernstein in a favorable public eye with true fans of the sport that may not use the access to the sport that we have here.

How this will affect the product he represents is going to be interesting to watch.

 

[john]

a quote from Merlin - aka: Alan Johnson /QUOTE]

Looks like my nametag stuck to him, it's a good one. Now he needs a proper "wizards hat" with stars and moon.

 

[*******]

Anybody seen Skuza ?

 

[Gordon]

What "word"? There is an assumption that Walsh had an agreement that was more than race to race. I agree with your presentation that contracts work in theory. The problem, in my opinion, is that sometimes integrity is tested when the "green grass" offer becomes apparent and the contracted individual chases the "shiny object". To opt out is where the issue begins.

Isn't it at all possible, after the Bernstein job became available, Walsh called Tuttle and offered him the right of first refusal in spite of the fact there was only a handshake arrangement. If so, I'd offer, that was a fair and prudent gesture.

Without contracts, there is no "business world".

As I'm a couple days removed from the initial shock of this situation I'm trying to view it with a wider lens & given that distancing, your point is well taken.

Having said that, what concerns me is that nobody from the Bernstein camp, nor the Tuttle camp (to my knowledge) has gone public on how this went down. Now don't get me wrong, it's none of our business & I completely understand that.

But the Bernstein camp has to know how the Drag Racing world (at least the internet drag racing world) has reacted to this news, yet they choose to keep quiet rather than defend their position. If, as you suggest, Walsh called Tuttle and offered the right of first refusal or some similar gesture, I would think they would be making this information available as soon as possible in an attempt to put out a few of these fires.

I would think Tuttle would've come forward with similar information from his end had it been handled anything like you suggest. Why wouldn't he?

The further removed we become from the initial announcement the less a description of what really happened is going to matter because as someone mentioned above, the Spin Doctor's are working hard to control the collateral damage and it will be difficult to determine fact rom fiction.

Speaking strictly for myself, Kenny Bernstein is going to have to do something(s) pretty special for me to be a fan again. And I'm not talking about on-track performance...

 

[Gordon]

a quote from Merlin - aka: Alan Johnson /QUOTE]

Looks like my nametag stuck to him, it's a good one. Now he needs a proper "wizards hat" with stars and moon.

Ian, how could it not stick? It's completely appropriate and befitting his talent! Still, I got a good chuckle from your reply. Thanks.

 

[john]

I wonder if he knows it yet.

 

[TJ]

You people are reading way into this too much. Bernstein could care less about your/my feelings about stealing/offering a job to Walsh. Just because KB throws Walsh a bone and he accepts alot of people here are pissed w/ KB???HUH?? You should be pissed w/ Walsh......Bernstein has a popular name w/ the general public......When I used to work @ UPS everyone there, well the guys, knew who Bernstein, Muldowney and Garlits were. But only a few knew who John Force was or that UPS even sponsored a Fuel car. Bernstein had the biggest name in Drag Racing until he left for Top fuel. Kenny is the most successful businessman in regards to finances in the pits today.
KB is the only drag racer to make it on the 'lifestyles of the rich and famous' program......Don't be mad @ the player...........GO KENNY....

 

[camaro]

Kenny is the most successful businessman in regards to finances in the pits today.

uh ... are u sure about that !

what about that fella that currently runs 3 nitro cars and has a fleet of jets ?? i forget his his name but he's from the Michigan area!!



jf

 

[Suzie Q]

Come on Terry! Give me a break!

 

[Gordon]

uh ... are u sure about that !

what about that fella that currently runs 3 nitro cars and has a fleet of jets ?? i forget his his name but he's from the Michigan area!!



jf

You're right, but I understand Terry's point of view too.

Still, I don't care how financially successful a man or woman becomes... If they had to hurt, undermine or otherwise negatively affect others to do it, then it just doesn't impress me. I'm sorry, that's how I feel.

What continues to amaze me is the fact that sponsors spend their money on 300+ M.P.H. billboards in order to sell a product to us, the fans - not to qualify in the top half or win rounds. Sure, those results should be side benefits and perhaps even stated goals, but credibility & integrity will (read: "SHOULD") sell more products than any qualifying efforts or round/race wins. Do you really go out and buy Oakley because Gary Scelzi wins a race? No, you buy them because of your respect for Jim Jannard and the product he sells. Yet, more and more fans are willing to accept these perceived negative business practices as the norm. Well, not me.

As another example, if Jeg Coughlin never wins another round of racing I'll continue to shop at Jeg's because of the way the Coughlin's carry themselves on a daily basis.

Perhaps this horse seems to have been kicked well beyond death, but to me it's at the heart of the future of drag racing in general and the world as a whole. Maybe I've finally lost it, who knows?

 

[johnny]

Perhaps this horse seems to have been kicked well beyond death, but to me it's at the heart of the future of drag racing in general and the world as a whole. Maybe I've finally lost it, who knows?

If your ability to articulate an intelligent perspective during a debate is any indicator, you've far from lost it.
On the other hand...

 

[TJ]

James.....in regards to personal wealth Amato and Bernstein are @ the top in the drag racing ranks. Kalitta is up there but he does not out-right own the fleet he has....very few people in the aviation business ever have a 'pink' slip to their crafts. Connie makes more money in maintenance and charters than anything else....old news...
In the 80's the pro teams came together to form a charter or organization to represent the teams and every owner of a fuel car voted for KB to lead them.

Almost everyone here would leave their current place of employment for a huge pay raise and a solid contract. KB is in it for the long haul...Tuttle is having fun and will park that car in a second. Walsh had no contract has does J.R.
If Kenny offered J.R. a job and he accepted would everyone be bummed?
Being a hired driver is a sketchy gig today. Unless you come onboard w/ money (like Cory M) you could be removed form the seat anytime. Very few hired guns have contracts that are binding....most just love to drive fuel cars...I know crew guys on top five teams that are still working for a bed and meal only....

 

[Suzie Q]

Terry,

YOU DON'T KNOW SH$T ABOUT CONNIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[johnny]

Terry,

YOU DON'T KNOW SH$T ABOUT CONNIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or the personal economics in the pits.
There are guys there named Jannard, Knoll, Black etc.

If you look at this realistically in terms of Kenny, Jannard, for example, would be "Monster".

No knock on Kenny, but he races on the dimes of others. There are more than a few that are doing it on there own (dime/dollars). Kalitta has and will.