Heads Up!

[PJ]

Re: John Force, DIVE!

Dave you may want to check out the http://www.nitromater.com/nhra/30980-heads-up-4.html that thread has the issue covered

 

[PJ]

Unless they went to acting school then it appeared pretty legit. Of course they could have figured that a regular up in smoke deal would have been worse so why not try a different way to lose.

The problem is when they have a history of diving, then it is difficult to believe when a real mistake does happen.



While we point to DSR and Force for their tactics it may not be 100% their call. Sponsor's have been known to make the call on who wins.

From a fan's seat I HATE dives, from a business stand point I understand why a company might follow that approach.

Quick fix to it. You have to race your team to enter the main. All DSR cars face off, 1 gets into the race, all Force cars. Lucas and BB, Al anabi. Team Connie and so on. Sure there are all kinds of holes and problems with such a scenario but we'd get any dives out of the way early then.

 

[FC138fan]

Another opinion on the subject-

As others noted, get rid of that stupid dive rule as it is impossible to enforce, and makes people who want to make a legit dive look stupid when they try to cover it up.

If you're gonna dive, roll the car just past the stage beams so it goes red, then both of you go at green. Teams can use the data, fans can see a race, and there's no more threads about people guessing whether people dove or not. Then its obvious you dove, but at least you still make a pass and the fans can see / hear / feel the run.

Some fans won't care, some will, and that's OK.

 

[James]

I haven't had the opportunity to watch the remainder of the race that everyone is discussing here, but I'm suddenly more interested than I was 30 minutes ago. Looking at the numbers, it appears that Guido didn't have a tune-up that could run with Zippy anyway, but because they left the throttle stop on (inadvertantly or otherwise - it wouldn't be the first time that's happened), people want to accuse John of throwing the race. Again, I haven't seen it, I'm merely giving a synopsis based on what I've read here. I'm interested to see the event and hear the interviews...

I've said it before and I'll say it again - I don't post on nitromater.com nearly as often as I once did, and a major reason for that is the consistent lack of respect displayed hereon. Most of you probably don't care whether I post or not, and that's fine.

And trust me when I tell you that you won't find a stronger supporter of our U.S. Constitution anywhere on the planet, but freedom of speech shouldn't mean we can all be completely and utterly disrespectful in our disagreements. It seems like every time people have a difference of opinion on this board (and seemingly every message board I visit), the discussion immediately spirals into disrespect, negativity, and most importantly, uninformed and uneducated accusations. What are we solving or learning by calling people names - people in many cases we've NEVER even met?! I'll tell you, we're learning absolutely nothing.

I've disagreed with many a comment during my 900+ posts, but I've always tried to do so in a respctful and intelligent manner. It amuses (& saddens) me that when someone doesn't get their way in the form of everyone agreeing with their opinion, they resort to the aforementioned name calling and empty accusations. Am I living in a fantasy world? Is it too much to ask for simple respect? I guess maybe it is...

Excellent post.

 

[Nunz]

Easy way to get rid of all the controversey and probably ant future internet discussions. Just take away the un-enforcable rule. If the announcer said, "coming up, it's Force vs. Neff, and with Neff in contention for the title, it's expected that Neff will advance"---or something like that. Then it's over, no matter what happens. Not perfect, but since it's going to happen from time to time, let's accept it and move on. I've posted before, team orders has been around for decades. Remember Candies & Hughes, I believe Gators 1970?

 

[Jer]

Re: John Force, DIVE!

im truly not a JFR fan but i dont think this was intentional.

 

[Toby]

Hell yea, when Don King was promoting fights the stands would still be packed and everyone knew who was going to win the majority of the fights anyways.

Easy way to get rid of all the controversey and probably ant future internet discussions. Just take away the un-enforcable rule. If the announcer said, "coming up, it's Force vs. Neff, and with Neff in contention for the title, it's expected that Neff will advance"---or something like that. Then it's over, no matter what happens. Not perfect, but since it's going to happen from time to time, let's accept it and move on. I've posted before, team orders has been around for decades. Remember Candies & Hughes, I believe Gators 1970?

 

[Rajunz]

Easy way to get rid of all the controversey and probably ant future internet discussions. Just take away the un-enforcable rule. If the announcer said, "coming up, it's Force vs. Neff, and with Neff in contention for the title, it's expected that Neff will advance"---or something like that. Then it's over, no matter what happens. Not perfect, but since it's going to happen from time to time, let's accept it and move on. I've posted before, team orders has been around for decades. Remember Candies & Hughes, I believe Gators 1970?

Paul Candies once told me that the '69 Cuda was crushing the field, and just before the final round a Chrysler exec. walked up to him and said "You know, there's no way that you can let that old car beat the "New" 1970 Cuda." Paul told him "Hey, I don't have a factory deal, I'm just running them." He said that they signed a deal on the spot, and the rest is history.

 

[Gordon]

Excellent post.

Thank you, sir.

 

[SundayNiagara]

Force is like the Yankees. Both of their respective sports are more interesting when they are winning!

 

[Mikey]

If they were going to let Neff win anyway......just not show up. Then John can get on camera and say hey Neff has the best chance right now so thats who team force is supporting. I think more people would be ok with it that way. Then no one can say yes he dived or no he didn't.

 

[twostep]

Re: John Force, DIVE!

There's one way to prevent this from happening again.....don't put the throttle stop on the car in the first place. As long as Force has been out there, surely he knows how to do a burnout without one.

Mike Dunn has approved this message.

 

[twostep]

Same tactics are used in NASCAR, IndyCar and F1 all the time and nobody says diddley. In NASCAR's case, racers dive on themselves all the time. Look at last week's Talladega race. 43rd place paid $70,000, nearly double what Neff took home after winning Reading. These teams know they can't compete, but if they can qualify, they bow out after one lap due to an 'unexplained vibration', and pocket a pretty nice check. Do this for a season and you've made a good living.

But God help us if Force tries to help his teammate....

 

[Nunz]

Good point, but, the whole "last place pays whatever' is a whole different topic. The cost of campaigning those cup cars is silly, even compared to fuel cars.

 

[Nunz]

Re: John Force, DIVE!

LOL Great post Carl!

 

[mike]

Re: John Force, DIVE!

and bring back dry hops while they're at it...

 

[mike]

If they were going to let Neff win anyway......just not show up. Then John can get on camera and say hey Neff has the best chance right now so thats who team force is supporting. I think more people would be ok with it that way. Then no one can say yes he dived or no he didn't.

until NHRA gets rid of the "no team orders" rule he can't say that...

IMO the rule is the problem and it forces (excuse the pun) teams to make up stupid excuses for doing what is best for the team (or a team's sponsors)...I am grown up enough to understand that sometimes you have to do what you have to do, but the excuses and denials are getting old.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

Yes, the rule is the problem. Let the teams forfeit if they want. Other sports do. It will speed up the show and save possible oil downs.

 

[Bullard Anderson]

Same tactics are used in NASCAR, IndyCar and F1 all the time and nobody says diddley. In NASCAR's case, racers dive on themselves all the time. Look at last week's Talladega race. 43rd place paid $70,000, nearly double what Neff took home after winning Reading. These teams know they can't compete, but if they can qualify, they bow out after one lap due to an 'unexplained vibration', and pocket a pretty nice check. Do this for a season and you've made a good living.

But God help us if Force tries to help his teammate....

Comparing a 43 car field in NASCAR where 35th thru 43rd have no money to a semi final in NHRA Funny Car with THE historically elite team full of funds, jack, moola, and resources is not really the same thing.

 

[Gordon]

I've finally had the opportunity to watch the race and though this horse is dead about 100 times over, I'm going to offer this:

I've been involved in Naval Aviation since 1985 as a Navy air traffic controller. I've been stationed at various shore facilities stateside and overseas as well as multiple aircraft carriers. I did a four year stint as a procedures inspector for the Carrier Air Traffic Control Center (CATCC) teams on each of the west coast based aircraft carriers. I've had the privilege to fly in a variety of Navy aircraft - both fixed wing and helicopters.

What on earth does that have to do with this thread? Glad you asked.

All Naval Aviators have it drilled into their head, beginning with their very first familiarization flight as a student that THEY MUST FOLLOW THE CHECKLIST EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY PRE-FLIGHT AND STRAP INTO THE AIRCRAFT. I've personally spoken with aviators who have in excess of 2,000 hours in the F/A-18 alone, and they all agree - they place the checklist on their knee-board and follow it line by line each time they go flying. Why? Because no matter how well you know the checklist, if your "routine" gets thrown off, it's extremely easy to miss something. Air traffic controllers have passdown checklists that they must use when passing down the position between controllers for the very same reason. You never want to have your routine thrown off and neglect to pass down some vital/critical piece of information that the controller relieving you may need.

Bottom line: The timing of the mistake looks bad for JFR given some of their past performances, but I'm not in a position to sit in front of my TV or my computer and question Guido's reasoning. I've seen it first hand in my profession, so I know it happens. Routines are absolutely critical to success and when a routine is broken and there's no checklist to get back on routine, stuff happens.