Don Schumacher not fooled by John's BS (1 Viewer)

Bobby Miller (aka "KNOW IT ALL") just can't get it. Bobby Miller, Do you use the "it's ok to do it because everyone else does it" logic with your family. I don't, and a lie is a lie, and a cheater is a cheater. BLACK & WHITE, DONE DEAL!!!!

Then have the courage to call a spade a spade and go back in history and rag on every single competitor who ever laid down for a teammate. Be fair about it Mark. All the folks you are bashing here are joined by way more than you'd like to count once your research was done. The list is very long and prestigious.

Fact is, we do have two funny cars. My son's drive them and if one was in the points chase that really mattered and lucked out to pair up against the other who wasn't in the chase or already had enough points to qualify for the next level, I wouldn't have to say a darned thing. Without provocation, they would make the decision for the good of the team, sponsors and business. If there is no dive rule in place, we would only bring one car to the line so as to remove any and all doubt about our decision. Don't believe me, ask them yourselves.

If you are referring me to a bad parent, that's another topic and I'll let you meet each and every member of my family and decide for yourself. There's six of them and I'll gladly introduce you if you are serious. Better yet, ask around for dirt on the Miller Family. Good Luck Buddy!
 
Then have the courage to call a spade a spade and go back in history and rag on every single competitor who ever laid down for a teammate.

You can only count the ones who have done it since the rule was put in place.... Some of the guys you are alluding to were doing nothing wrong by the rules in place at the time... You shouldnt throw people who did it before it wasnt allowed under the bus just to try and get your point across.
 
Then in fairness, you MUST blame everyone that has ever done it! Right? The list is long and may include some names you wouldn't want to discuss like you do John.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look Bobby, it's clear that you and I will never see eye to eye on this subject. The Selzi/Bazemore thing was bullcrap, the Beck/Minor things was bullcrap. the Kalitta things were bullcrap! I just don't understand your view when the whole sport was and is built on beating the guy in the other lane any way you can WITHIN the rules.

I grew up watching div. 5 racing at Thunder Valley Dragways in Marion SD in the early/mid 70's. The points meet was the highlight of my summer. My mom and dad would haul me and a bunch of friends there in a big old Chrysler Newport. Saw guys like John Wiebe, Bob Struksnes, Lee Beard, the Kaiser Bros, Tom Hoover, Doc Halladay, Bill Schifsky, Roger Guzman, Garth Widdison, Al Tschida, Fred Snavely, Gary Beck, Tom Hovland, Etc. Warren Johnson raced Div. 5 back then. There were no "teams" back then. I never saw a race thrown to my knowledge. Could it have happened? I guess maybe, but the guys listed above, although no really big name guys, raced hard and straight up as far as I knew.(there was no Minor with Beck yet if I remember correctly).

I can't tell you how much I hate the team "orders" crap except to tell you a story that will make me look like a fool. A few years ago there was (IMO) some team shenanigans going on with Doug Kalitta when he was a real contender for the championship. Grubnic had a ridiculous red light and I was pissed. I was and still am, a big David Baca fan. I wrote a letter ranting about the diving BS and put $100 in the envelope and wrote that I wanted to "sponsor" David and that maybe he could buy a couple gallons of nitro with it. I gave the letter to David at Topeka. David took the letter and read it. I'm pretty sure he thought I was nuts, but he was nice to me anyway. I'm not a poor guy but I ain't rich by any means. But I HATE the diving crap so bad, I wanted to do what I could to help a single car team out. Was it stupid? I guess you could say it was, nothing has changed and David isn't racing any more. I don't know what else to say.

Sorry for the novel of a post guys.
 
Duane,
I completely understand your point of view. Team sports have added a dimension to the sport, like it or not but a team is still a team. I completely understand your frustration however.
 
First, Bobby I want to thank you for the clean cut, to the point, upstanding debate. This is good stuff!

Second, I know that it has been done in the past by pretty much everyone who could do it. Including my fav's.

I just want to voice my opinion on stopping it.

And while Team Force seems to be getting the most criticism since Monday, my criticism would be equal to any team that does this in the future.

This obviousness as to which is was done on Monday probably takes my protest up a few notches on this instance.
 
First, Bobby I want to thank you for the clean cut, to the point, upstanding debate. This is good stuff!

Second, I know that it has been done in the past by pretty much everyone who could do it. Including my fav's.

I just want to voice my opinion on stopping it.

And while Team Force seems to be getting the most criticism since Monday, my criticism would be equal to any team that does this in the future.

This obviousness as to which is was done on Monday probably takes my protest up a few notches on this instance.

And that's perfectly fair when applied to all teams with the same application of the clearly written rule. Agreed Steve.
 
I like both the Force and Schumacher teams but Force FC teams success has far surpassed Schumacher FC Teams.

Championships
Force FC Teams 7
Schumacher FC Teams 1

Race Wins
Force FC Teams 106
Schumacher FC Teams 51

1999 through 2009 US Nat.

I was talking about the organizations. All the classes entered, so everything from TF thru TAD.
 
I don't think that everyone is drinking the "JFR Kool-Aid" as much as you are drinking the "Anti-JFR Kool-Aid".

Force could rescue a kid from the burning building and you would complain about how he dragged the kid out by the arm.

Oh really, I guess you didn't see the post earlier where I commended John for the apology. I guess your second statement is now false. I will give credit where I think it is due. Thanks for thinking how I would react if John rescued a kid from a burning building.:D
 
Hmm, John's car went A to B without smoking the tires like Cruz did, so that goes to the crew chief not the driver. However, he wasn't a good enough driver in the semi's to cut a decent light and keep his car in the grove, go figure. Who's the better driver this year, that's debatable. Maybe John should get out of the car (he doesn't care about winning for himself) and focus on his business, because he is running one car out of his pocket this year which does not make much business sense. He will not have much of a business if he continues to fund teams out of his pocket and not with sponsorship $$. The last time I checked the perception on the street is Bernstein is the best businessman in the sport.

Yea...that's why Burn Queen can't get a tuner to get his kids' car to go down the track consistantly to save his @$$! Awesome business man...:rolleyes:
 
Then have the courage to call a spade a spade and go back in history and rag on every single competitor who ever laid down for a teammate. Be fair about it Mark. All the folks you are bashing here are joined by way more than you'd like to count once your research was done. The list is very long and prestigious.

Fact is, we do have two funny cars. My son's drive them and if one was in the points chase that really mattered and lucked out to pair up against the other who wasn't in the chase or already had enough points to qualify for the next level, I wouldn't have to say a darned thing. Without provocation, they would make the decision for the good of the team, sponsors and business. If there is no dive rule in place, we would only bring one car to the line so as to remove any and all doubt about our decision. Don't believe me, ask them yourselves.

If you are referring me to a bad parent, that's another topic and I'll let you meet each and every member of my family and decide for yourself. There's six of them and I'll gladly introduce you if you are serious. Better yet, ask around for dirt on the Miller Family. Good Luck Buddy!

I will call a spade a spade, but we are talking about this incident in this thread. Of course people have thrown races (we all know it has been happening since the Minor / Beck days) and my gripe is not with that. It is now a team sport and NHRA needs to get rid of the rule. My beef is the way John came out so strong insisting he was going to run a "fair" race. If he would have said "I'll do my best" and left it at that without his tirade proclaiming fair play I would not given it a second thought. To me it is just dishonest and insulting.
In regards to your family, I believe you have a very well liked / respected family. Although I have never introduced myself I have seen your family MANY times at the racetrack (NHRA, IHBA, & CIFCA), and you all seem like great people.
To further elaborate on my feelings I cut this from another thread---

Yeah, NHRA Drag Racing has fallen so far in the last several years, it's sad. Could you imagine Jimmie Johnson being told to pull over and let Jeff Gordon go by for the Daytona or Brickyard checkers. There is NO WAY, and if he got in the way he'd be put in the wall. I don't blame John for his action as much as his reactions. Coming out first with the "I'm going after him" in reference to Hight, and then reacting to the Pedregons like a nut while still trying to pull us into his lie, is insulting. The sentiment around here (Nitromater) is it's OK to lie "because he had to". Well then, I guess the same people should not jump on thier kids when they screw up, because they are being taught that it's OK to lie & cheat when "you have to". NHRA is also at fault because there is no possibility of enforcing the rule (at least against the Force team). Therefore there should be NO RULE. If they made it clear that team play is allowed, then OH Well!!, tough luck, and the Pedregons' would not have a gripe. Instead they question a rule and get MFed to death on this board. The "if the Shoe was on the other foot" argument does'nt work either because, IT'S NOT!!! Also, folks on this board who call out Don Schumacher's integrity ought to be ashamed of themselves. Name one instance since the well chronicled Seattle race where Team Shoe has broken that rule. I seem to recall Ron Capps putting a pretty good dent in Whit B's title hopes a few years back by winning razor thin races. Everyone knows JF is NHRA (especially his puppets who run it), but in my mind he has been instrumental in the free fall of NHRA as much as he helped bring it to its pinnacle (there is no denying that). From the chassis deal to 1000' YAWN racing, just those two highly pressed issues (by JFR) have cost the sport quite a few racers (who cannot keep up with new car costs), and thousands of LOYAL fans (who won't stand for "short track" racing). On top of those add the Countdown and dozens of other failures by NHRA, and this sport will continue to spiral. Oh well! you all enjoy it because after 175 + National events (and hundreds of independents), seeing Indy 2008 at 1000' (sacrelige) was the final straw for me, and the NHRA "Big Show" will never see any more of my $$$. Jim Head told me "Good Riddance, you guys won't be missed". I guess time will tell.
 
Mark, Nascar is 100 times worse at team orders than NHRA is. Hell, they even trade leading laps during a race so every team member can get the extra pts for leading a lap. A few races over the last several years I have watched had teams that had a car not running so well would purposely cause cautions and what not for several reasons to help dictate the outcome of a race. Hell Nascar itself has thrown cautions for no reason before b/c so and so was in 2nd and needed a caution to catch 1st. Boom, fake caution and now we have a 3 lap shootout to the checkered.
 
Mark, Nascar is 100 times worse at team orders than NHRA is. Hell, they even trade leading laps during a race so every team member can get the extra pts for leading a lap. A few races over the last several years I have watched had teams that had a car not running so well would purposely cause cautions and what not for several reasons to help dictate the outcome of a race. Hell Nascar itself has thrown cautions for no reason before b/c so and so was in 2nd and needed a caution to catch 1st. Boom, fake caution and now we have a 3 lap shootout to the checkered.

100% agree with all of the above, but the last 5 laps it's every man for himself, and especially at Daytona nobody will pull over and give the win away. Unfortunately, there seems to only be one solution. NHRA must 86 this unenforcable rule, and team play can happen.
 
Lets just all sit back and see what happens the next time Cruz and Tony race each other in the next six races. Also what happens when two of the Shoe's cars or Force's cars race each other when they are both in the countdown.
I have to say the 'COUNTDOWN' is probably the absolute dumbest thing I have heard of since I started drag racing in 1958. NHRA just wants to be like NASCAR (talk about team orders) so they now have the countdown. NASCAR is not having the best time of it right now and I think NHRA need to come up with some new ideas that are really their own.
 
Yeah, NHRA Drag Racing has fallen so far in the last several years, it's sad. Could you imagine Jimmie Johnson being told to pull over and let Jeff Gordon go by for the Daytona or Brickyard checkers. There is NO WAY, and if he got in the way he'd be put in the wall.


If it meant losing a championship to a rival team, and you think Mr Hendrick would not make the call.............then you are naive at best. Like it or not, team order exist in all motorsports. As long as there are teams, there will be team orders when necessary. And they cant be legislated away.
 
Furthermore since we got on a NASCAR comparison--remember when Dale Sr. lost his life. What was he doing? Blocking for his team cars running 1 and 2.
 
Ways To Support Nitromater

Users who are viewing this thread


Back
Top