Don Long speaks on SFI spec (1 Viewer)

[team23rulz]

Torco Racing Fuel's Competition Plus.com - Drag Racing's Internet Magazine - GUEST EDITORIAL WITH DON LONG - "IT’S TIME TO STRAIGHTEN OUT THIS CHASSIS MESS"

Very interesting little write up by Don Long himself.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

I would trust the words of Don Long. His track record is impecable and his experience is superior to "Others" who seem to be ruling the day at both NHRA and SFI, as I read the new spec. There are far too many quality builders in this industry like Don, who are capable of offering valued input to be ignored as it appears they are being.

 

[jefty]

Since Don Long, Davie Uyehara, Bob Meyer and Marc Rowe were asked to leave the chassis committee (they are 'out of touch with what is going on today'...Please)It has been controlled by Murf. Don't get me wrong, Murf builds a lot of nice stuff. just don't dig the "Murf's way or the Hiway" take that NHRA and SFI have taken.

This ain't over.

 

[fcpilot]

It is quite a breath of fresh air hearing words of wisdom for a change.

Paul "M" Miller

 

[Toejam]

Has Don Long built cars for anyone other than Bill Miller? Anyone who NEVER had a chassis issue is someone NHRA should be listening to!

 

[john]

Has Don Long built cars for anyone other than Bill Miller? Anyone who NEVER had a chassis issue is someone NHRA should be listening to!

He's built quite a few cars for a number of racers to say the least.

 

[Toejam]

He's built quite a few cars for a number of racers to say the least.

Ian, I was referring to the last 15 years or so.

 

[unclebob]

Ian, I was referring to the last 15 years or so.

Joe and ALL concerned;
Choosing to take on other challenges and possibly more lucrative projects than race car chassis doesn't change the fact that engineering knowledge, experience, along with a burning desire and investigative passion to keep people safe, alter the fact that trying to interpet a bunch of colored lines on a screen is the only solution.

I'm proud to say that I owned and raced a Don Long T/F car from "66-"68. I couldn't build it because of my Army Reserve duty. I have a great amount of respect for not only his craftsmanship, but for the indepth research he still is doing today!!

Bob

 

[TR]

Joe and ALL concerned;
Choosing to take on other challenges and possibly more lucrative projects than race car chassis doesn't change the fact that engineering knowledge, experience, along with a burning desire and investigative passion to keep people safe, alter the fact that trying to interpet a bunch of colored lines on a screen is the only solution.

I'm proud to say that I owned and raced a Don Long T/F car from "66-"68. I couldn't build it because of my Army Reserve duty. I have a great amount of respect for not only his craftsmanship, but for the indepth research he still is doing today!!

Bob

There is no substitute for experiance period. The old guys like Don Long and Al Swindal (RIP) may be copied but never duplicated.

 

[Toejam]

Joe and ALL concerned;
Choosing to take on other challenges and possibly more lucrative projects than race car chassis doesn't change the fact that engineering knowledge, experience, along with a burning desire and investigative passion to keep people safe, alter the fact that trying to interpet a bunch of colored lines on a screen is the only solution.

I'm proud to say that I owned and raced a Don Long T/F car from "66-"68. I couldn't build it because of my Army Reserve duty. I have a great amount of respect for not only his craftsmanship, but for the indepth research he still is doing today!!

Bob

Bob, my question about Don Long wasn't to question his knowlegde or his Chassis record. Quite the Opposite, I think if NHRA listened to people like him and Bill Miller more often I bet some of the chassis failures in the past might have been avoided!

 

[Randy]

Bob, my question about Don Long wasn't to question his knowlegde or his Chassis record. Quite the Opposite, I think if NHRA listened to people like him and Bill Miller more often I bet some of the chassis failures in the past might have been avoided!

Now that is the post of this still very young year.

 

["Dr. Dirt"]

Now, here is a thread I wouldn't have believed could have possibly been ignored, in light of recent events. There's some very valid points that relate to our continued safety concerns-easily as important as shortening the tracks and erecting catch nets.

 

[Al smith]

Mark my words. There will come a time when a Murf car will become "the official chassis of NHRA drag racing" Much like the official fuel. You will not be permitted an alternative. It will have more to do with political clout and potential litigation than safety. The fact that Don Long, Davie Uyehara, Bob Meyer and Marc Rowe were asked to leave the chassis committee sickens me. Just because a builder uses FEA or ANSYS does not impress me. I suggest you read a book "To Engineer is human." A computer wont tell you where to place a particular wall thickness or diameter tube. it will simply show you the results of placing that tube in a perfect world that can not possibly take into consideration inertia, engine torque, vibration, wing load, Side wind load on body panels and wing spill plates, Chassis twisting load as a result of mid course steering correction. CG change as a result of chassis arch and tire growth. All combined. Don Long's record speaks for itself. How many have been killed in Murf cars in the past? How many of Don Long, Davie Uyehara, Bob Meyer and Marc Rowe's cars have been ripped in half at chute deployment? I rest my case.

 

[jefty]

Mark my words. There will come a time when a Murf car will become "the official chassis of NHRA drag racing" Much like the official fuel. You will not be permitted an alternative. It will have more to do with political clout and potential litigation than safety. Don Long's record speaks for itself. How many have been killed in Murf cars in the past? How many of Don Long, Davie Uyehara, Bob Meyer and Marc Rowe's cars have been ripped in half at chute deployment? I rest my case.

I hope you are wrong about the spec. chassis.

Don Long and Bill Miller are at the forefront of drag race chassis research. REAL research.

Bill Miller along with Don Long, outfitted a few Top Fuel cars with strain-gauges. real cars on real tracks under real conditions, at his own expense.

Also, two Hadman cars, one with normalized tubing and one with 'abnormalized' tubing were destroyed on a test fixture.

The findings were submitted to NHRA and ceremoniously round-filed.

Even before this in the late 90's, Don Long and Chuck Haas (I think, I could have CRS) had done studies on a proof-load fixture with strain-gauges on Top Fuel chassis. again real world testing. not virtual.

FWIW, I did some time (16 years) in aerospace as a specialist weldor, before joining up with Bobby Hansen building chassis. Most of that in static test at Mcdonnell Douglas. I saw three major stages of testing. first was computer modeling. next was proof-load on a static fixture with strain-gauges. final was flight test. and the engineers were changing the design at every step, to compensate for real world factors.

I was and am still impressed that Don Long and Bill Miller take this very seriously. and as my aerospace background tells me, if it's a class A weldment (loss of life if weldment fails) we all need to take this seriously.

 

[ex-nsp]

There's an extreme close friend ship with SFI Director Kuhns and Mckinney - they tour England and Sweden every year together certifying parts like clutch cans and such-(see Eurodragster archives) and that's OK, but their closeness has IMHOP caused Kuhns to have a deaf ear towards the MANY knowledgeable - maybe MORE knowledgeable, fabricators out there.

I know McKinney is based in a semi-industrial area (between the cornfields) and has the braintrust of the prestgious Purdue University close by, but, using Long and fellow deposee Bob Meyer for example- these two guys operate and have always operated in the heartland of the Southern California AEROSPACE INDUSTRY.

Can't speak for the very respected Meyer, but you can't IMAGINE the number of engineering minds Don Long has access to and regularly consults to get to the truth on matters .

Can't believe that valuable talent has been shunned.

Quick personal note to Jeff U. when I stopped by Hansen's a few months back I didn't recognize you - you'll like at least one of these excuses -you've had a welding helmet or crash helmet on the other times I've seen you and you looked too young from what I remembered you- working for me used to AGE my guys- working for Bob doesn't, obviously!

 

[Tony]

Mark my words. There will come a time when a Murf car will become "the official chassis of NHRA drag racing" Much like the official fuel. You will not be permitted an alternative. It will have more to do with political clout and potential litigation than safety. The fact that Don Long, Davie Uyehara, Bob Meyer and Marc Rowe were asked to leave the chassis committee sickens me. Just because a builder uses FEA or ANSYS does not impress me. I suggest you read a book "To Engineer is human." A computer wont tell you where to place a particular wall thickness or diameter tube. it will simply show you the results of placing that tube in a perfect world that can not possibly take into consideration inertia, engine torque, vibration, wing load, Side wind load on body panels and wing spill plates, Chassis twisting load as a result of mid course steering correction. CG change as a result of chassis arch and tire growth. All combined. Don Long's record speaks for itself. How many have been killed in Murf cars in the past? How many of Don Long, Davie Uyehara, Bob Meyer and Marc Rowe's cars have been ripped in half at chute deployment? I rest my case.

Al this is a totally unfair statment. There are currently many more Murf cars racing in the nitro categories than Don Long, Uyehara, Meyer, and Rowe cars combined. Therefore, there is the probability that more Murf cars will be involved in racing incidents. Do you honestly think all the nitro teams would be running Murf cars if they were unsafe? I don't.

 

[ex-nsp]

Don't want to turn this into a p***ing contest but, last poster, HAVE YOU NOTICED? (kind of a Bob Frey line, huh.) that DSR, Force, and for quite a while, Worsham, build their own cars and Dunn uses a So Cal chassis shop.

Maybe these teams have seen the writing on the wall.

Auto giants (at least, then) GM and Ford built the Vega and Pinto, but that didn't mean they were GOOD CARS.

 

[FABMAN]

Don Long situation is another example of how far Tom Compton and Graham Light have taken NHRA and this sport towards the brink of disaster. I mean this if the Team Owners, Drivers and sponsors don't stand up to these two and turn it around 50 yrs of Wally's and others work will be for not.

 

[jefty]

Quick personal note to Jeff U. when I stopped by Hansen's a few months back I didn't recognize you - you'll like at least one of these excuses -you've had a welding helmet or crash helmet on the other times I've seen you and you looked too young from what I remembered you- working for me used to AGE my guys- working for Bob doesn't, obviously!

Yeah, being with Hansen for 9 years now, is just like the fountain of youth!

And, I've heard about what it's like working for you from Victor Wu and Grubby...too funny!

FWIW, I'll be 46 on august 15th. mark your calendars! lol.

 

[megadeth]

Don is just another knowledgable person NHRA has turned away and it's a growing list!