We're talking Pro Stock.

[D]

Don't get me wrong, I love pro stock, but the point of this thread as I see it, is the factory hot rods have stagnated at a stage where they don't resemble anything coming out of anyone's factory. What's wrong with opening up pro stock to non "North American" manufacturers? In a weird way its already been done, I can buy a used Toyota Cavalier over here. We live in a global economy and can't raise the draw bridge. It would probably be good for the overall health of the sport if more manufacturers were allowed to play and bring their check books.

S/F
D

 

[Randy]

I think most of you don't understand how traction control works. If it truly slowed cars down, why would race teams use it? What traction control does is manage the efficiency of the power being put to the track via controlling wheelspin. In simple terms, instead of letting a car spin the tires, it slows either wheelspeed down via application of the brakes or engine speed down via rev limitations or both to keep the car moving forward and building the all important mechanical vector known as momentum. Basically, a car that shakes the tires and pedals (loss of momentum) is not going to beat a car whose ECU manages the shake part of the track and keeps the car moving forward (minimal or no loss of momentum).

In a street car, TC is activated to allow you to keep control of a vehicle and prevent a crash. When your PT cruiser activates TC, your wheels are still driving rather than spinning and it should give a greater degree of control in an emergency situation. TC in a street car definitely slows a vehicle down, but that is to prevent soccer moms from cracking up the family car, rather than negotiate a race course efficiently as possible.

You definition is exactly why an ideal tune-up would mean in a best case scenario TC should never be activated. TC works by removing power by one or more methods, momentarily. Coming out of a corner in turn two it may not make much of a difference (except keeping you out of the wall) but in 1/4 drag racing it will only salvage a run lost by excessive wheelspin or tire shake by salvaging it and producing a marginally better run than it would have been. It won't make your car as quick or quicker.

When wheel spin or shake is detected it can be reduced or eliminated by TC by the application of brakes and/or the reduction of power or some other means. None of those are going to help you stay ahead of the guy in the other lane who has a smooth strong application of power and traction which requires no TC.

RG

 

[AC]

I am a big prostock fan whether it’s IHRA or NHRA. I love watching these cars, the drivers pulling gears and hearing these motors scream down the track. In order to make a perfect run you have many variables that need to be 100% correct. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. But then again everyone has their flavor, mine is prostock, comp, super stock, stock and promod. The nitro classes they are nice but don’t do anything for me.

Most people who truly enjoy the prostock class understand the technology that already exists in this class. They also understand the hard work these teams put into their programs. I think if the NHRA gave the prostock class the respect they deserve more people would be interested.

Do you really think by putting an ecu in the car you will get 20k more fans to love prostock. What is the ECU going to do? Right now you have programmable ignitions did that help bring a broader fan base? Leave the turbos for the outlaw crowd.

The days of winning on Sunday sell on Monday have been gone for a while and not just in the NHRA. I think the only true racing venues where you can win on Sunday and buy on Monday are Motorcycle Road Racing (ducati, suzuki) and Sports Car racing (porsche, ferrari, bmw) where manufacturers actually produce and sell the cars and bikes they are racing on Sunday.

 

[hellfirejim]

I am a big prostock fan whether it’s IHRA or NHRA. I love watching these cars, the drivers pulling gears and hearing these motors scream down the track. In order to make a perfect run you have many variables that need to be 100% correct. There is no need to reinvent the wheel. But then again everyone has their flavor, mine is prostock, comp, super stock, stock and promod. The nitro classes they are nice but don’t do anything for me.

Most people who truly enjoy the prostock class understand the technology that already exists in this class. They also understand the hard work these teams put into their programs. I think if the NHRA gave the prostock class the respect they deserve more people would be interested.

Do you really think by putting an ecu in the car you will get 20k more fans to love prostock. What is the ECU going to do? Right now you have programmable ignitions did that help bring a broader fan base? Leave the turbos for the outlaw crowd.

The days of winning on Sunday sell on Monday have been gone for a while and not just in the NHRA. I think the only true racing venues where you can win on Sunday and buy on Monday are Motorcycle Road Racing (ducati, suzuki) and Sports Car racing (porsche, ferrari, bmw) where manufacturers actually produce and sell the cars and bikes they are racing on Sunday.

The reason that the "Win on suday, Sell on Monday" is not in effect right now is that the car manufacturers do not have anything to sell that even closely resembles what is on the race track.

Before anyone gets all up tight I am absolutely apprecative of the amount of extreme engineering that goes into a Pro Stock car. But why not use the cars that people can relate too. That is what started all of this in the first place. You could go get a big block Camaro or Mustang or Cuda just like your heros in Pro Stock. I honestly think that with the coming of the new pony cars it would be the perfect time to try and recapture that same excitement. It would probably sell more cars and yes you might even see some more factory involvement. I would also add that any car that could meet the criteria of have a V8 with rear wheel drive [note I said nothing on conversions] then they should be allowed to race regardless of manufacture.

Now that will be interesting and hopefully the excitment of those days can return.
jim

 

[AC]

The reason that the "Win on suday, Sell on Monday" is not in effect right now is that the car manufacturers do not have anything to sell that even closely resembles what is on the race track.

Before anyone gets all up tight I am absolutely apprecative of the amount of extreme engineering that goes into a Pro Stock car. But why not use the cars that people can relate too. That is what started all of this in the first place. You could go get a big block Camaro or Mustang or Cuda just like your heros in Pro Stock. I honestly think that with the coming of the new pony cars it would be the perfect time to try and recapture that same excitement. It would probably sell more cars and yes you might even see some more factory involvement. I would also add that any car that could meet the criteria of have a V8 with rear wheel drive [note I said nothing on conversions] then they should be allowed to race regardless of manufacture.

Now that will be interesting and hopefully the excitment of those days can return.
jim

i do agree with you that it would be cool to see the new mustangs, camaros, etc race in the class but i do not think that will happen soon. I believe nascar is trying to have their busch series run the new cars and they are getting alot of negative feedback from it.

 

[ProStockJunkie]

Hi Jackee:

I reread all the posts here and no one but you has said they aren't exciting to watch, except that unless nitro is running the grandstands empty out.

Repeating what I said earlier, I am amazed at what they can do with a little air (meaning naturally aspirated), a full tank of gas (meaning no nitro, no alky, and no nitros) and a lot of $$.

Pro stock has always been a high tech class. They should be allowed to take the class to the next level with stuff available at any dealership.

Don't recall mentioning anyone by name Randy. The implication is, however, that the cars are not exciting enough. Did you miss this one? "What's so exciting about watching cars that you can't buy going down the track and pretending the manufacturer actually has anything to do with them? "

I'll say it again. If you don't like Pro Stock, don't watch it. There are plenty of folks who do. Does it gather the crowds like TF & FC? No. However, that would be like mixing apples & oranges I think.



Each to their own.

 

[67 Cuda]

I love to see the latest Pro Stock cars. Since they are the "Factory Hot Rods" I think the factories need to start producing some of them. I think a few Big Block Cobalts, GTOs and Hemi Stratus would sell like hot cakes!!! Of course the street cars would have to use EFI to pass emissions and I doubt they would get great MPG but they sure would be fun to drive.

 

[Just Paul]

Has anybody seen any spy pics of the new pontiac??

 

[AC]

Has anybody seen any spy pics of the new pontiac??

good call paul i was just thinking the same thing. That body should be very sleek, sort of like the stealth bomber!!

 

[Sophia]

I'm all for fuel injection, and I think the cars need to resemble cars on the showroom floor. I feel like there would be more sponsor interest. Mustangs, the new Camaro, new Challenger, etc...

But don't get forced induction into the mix. You start messing with the motor guys and you are messing with religion!

 

[vegasnitro]

Mustangs, the new Camaro, new Challenger, etc...

That is a good idea. I know I personally can't get jacked up about watching Cobalts, Stratuses (or is it Stratae?) and the coming G6 GXP. Only the Holden Monaro errrr GTO fits the mold of "hot rod".

Robert Patrick's IHRA Mustang Pro Stocker is a GORGEOUS piece that I would like to see with a 500 incher at NHRA events.

Incidentally, NASCAR is looking to go the pony car route with the Nationwide nee Busch Series in the near future.

 

[Randy]

Robert Patrick's IHRA Mustang Pro Stocker is a GORGEOUS piece that I would like to see with a 500 incher at NHRA events.
QUOTE]

That it is...

Courtesy of Bookracing.com

 

[jnor]

On another discussion board we were talking about something totally unrelated to Pro Stock. Then I mentioned this:

Remember "Race 'em on Sunday, sell 'em on Monday?"

Back in Pro stocks infancy you could by a hemi powered Cuda on Monday. But today you can't buy a 500 CID Grand Am on Monday. And you can't buy ANYTHING with carburetors.

If I were in charge (we'd all be in trouble) Pro stock would look more like Brad Personett's turbo Toyota. The younger generations could relate and would be more interested in a class that more resembles what you can buy today. Plus, it runs 6.40's at almost 220 miles per hour.

Get rid of those big hood scoops, too. Let me zip up my firesuit first...Okay, flame away!

RG

If I were in charge, they would look like "real" cars, instead of 1970's funnycars. Prostock is boooooring unless you can appreciate the technology involved to make them run that fast.
I would rather watch SS/AH Hemi cars run than P/S any day. Prostock was great when it started with superstock type cars with big engines, and "real" 4 speeds. I was at Pomona at the first race they ran P/S. I guess i am telling my age.

 

[ProStockJunkie]

unless you can appreciate the technology involved to make them run that fast.

Bingo.... that is what sets drag racing apart from all other forms of motorsports. Technology.

 

[Randy]

Bingo.... that is what sets drag racing apart from all other forms of motorsports. Technology.

NHRA's goal of controlling cost has stymied new technology. Otherwise you'd see things like computer controlled FI, TC, advanced clutch application, etc. in all the classes. In reality, aren't we where we were 20 years ago, except the parts manufacturing process is better?

 

[chop]

NHRA's goal of controlling cost has stymied new technology. Otherwise you'd see things like computer controlled FI, TC, advanced clutch application, etc. in all the classes. In reality, aren't we where we were 20 years ago, except the parts manufacturing process is better?

I would say that NHRA keeps some of the rules in the dark ages to keep the costs down. Many of the rules revisions lately came as a result of some of the mega funded teams (guess who) having technology that was becoming very costly. Look @ it this way,the carbs have to be tuned by a human not a computer like F I and the clutches being what they are is pretty much like the carbs. I'm thinking NHRA figures with F I,it would be harder to police than the carbs. If the truth be told,the P/S racers themselves police the class better than the NHRA Tech Dept. If technology stymies the class,isn't it worth it to save the class? IE,30-40 car fields a few years ago are down to counts in the 20's. Just look @ the most recent news,Mopar cuts it's funding to the dark side and what got cut,the P/S program,nuff said. If new technology was left unchecked and the cars ran faster,what purpose would that serve? Who can tell the difference between a 6.60 run and a 6.30 run? IMHO,the costs need to be controlled or the class will destroy it's self.

 

[Toejam]

NHRA's goal of controlling cost has stymied new technology. Otherwise you'd see things like computer controlled FI, TC, advanced clutch application, etc. in all the classes. In reality, aren't we where we were 20 years ago, except the parts manufacturing process is better?

RG I remember you agreeing with NHRA banning the Austin Ford motor because of the Huge bore centers. What's the difference between that decision and others to keep costs from spiraling out of control?

If Turbo V6's is what it would take to make Pro stock current and marketable, why didn't the Pro compact series take off?

 

[Randy]

What's the difference between that decision and others to keep costs from spiraling out of control?...why didn't the Pro compact series take off?

Joe:

As you can see in my post, I didn't say whether or not I agreed with the reason. I only commented on why technology hasn't advanced at the same pace as, say, a new PT Cruiser has. My opinion is that it has to do with controlling cost.

Here's my quote once again...

"NHRA's goal of controlling cost has stymied new technology. Otherwise you'd see things like computer controlled FI, TC, advanced clutch application, etc. in all the classes. In reality, aren't we where we were 20 years ago, except the parts manufacturing process is better?"

I couldn't tell you why the Pro compact series didn't take off. I never went to one. Who's to say in 10-20 years that won't be all you'll see.

RG

 

[john]

I couldn't tell you why the Pro compact series didn't take off. I never went to one.

Doesn't look like anyone else did either.

 

[none]

Is P/S technology archaic? Yes. Should current world technology be allowed in?
Formula 1 allowed "current" technology in. That let the cat out of the bag. At one race, the factory caused the leading car to have engine "problems" until the following cars caught up, then miraculously, the leading car's engine started to run cleanly.
It also brought in computer controlled clutches, traction control, etc.
Leave P/S where it is.
Lee
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