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Vandergriff Shuts Down Team and Retires (3 Viewers)

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Registered member said:
That's not correct - "not for profit" is a classification by the IRS , they can not have shareholders nor pay dividends...
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I stand by what I said. The profits are supposed to be used for the betterment of the company. The only betterment from the NHRA profits is lining the pockets of the top dogs.
 
looks like this thread is drifting .
I read an article on Dragzine online that Schumacher is maybe looking to add another dragster??
Perhaps Kallita should purchase the whole enchilada. As force once said Kallitta has more money than God. I recon Bob Vandergriff could sell the entire operation w/ crew for a fair price.
 
Had a conversation over adult beverages this week....

Point was made, and I pose the question here to those of you that say that the cost has got to be placed under control.

How, exactly?

One team's annual budget, versus another teams similar annual budget, could be spent in ENTIRELY different ways, depending on their facilities.

Does it cost somebody the same amount of money to build their own heads or blowers as it does for someone that doesn't have the machine shop and has to BUY those parts?

So, where is the cutoff amount when saying that expenses need to be brought down? Parts? Personnel? Operating expenses?
 
Just read through all 5 pages of the opinions and thoughts. Many good points were made, but, you all been liking pulling up to the pumps and paying about half of what you were paying to fill your tank ? one tiny component of that cheap gas is the loss of BVR.

How many follow this tiny website to discuss the true "inside baseball" of the sport we all love ? a couple thousand ?

Don't really see any possible way things can continue on this path. The end was fortold when Wally turned the reins over to a CPA that had never even made a pass down a track in his whole life. He and all who followed him came in and raped and pillaged what, with the right leadership, could have been something that could have endured and prospered.

There are about 5 people, multi millionaires all, who are keeping the ball in the air for fuel racing in NHRA. The loss of one, or, worst case 2, should just about guarantee the demise of fuel racing as we now know it.
Enjoy it while it lasts.
 
Registered member said:
Does it cost somebody the same amount of money to build their own heads or blowers as it does for someone that doesn't have the machine shop and has to BUY those parts?
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I tend to think the upfront costs are pretty high, those CNC machines don't come cheap. So I wonder how long it takes for ROI. But I imagine once the upfront cost has been recouped, they save money over buying parts. Especially if you have a seven car racing organization, like DSR. Don might chime in on this aspect, but if he doesn't want to discuss that, I'd understand.
 
Registered member said:
I tend to think the upfront costs are pretty high, those CNC machines don't come cheap. So I wonder how long it takes for ROI. But I imagine once the upfront cost has been recouped, they save money over buying parts. Especially if you have a seven car racing organization, like DSR. Don might chime in on this aspect, but if he doesn't want to discuss that, I'd understand.
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But I also wonder about those who buy AJPE parts. Alan has been known to help out here and there, so the expert advice might be enough for a team to say it is worth buying the parts from AJPE.
 
Registered member said:
I tend to think the upfront costs are pretty high, those CNC machines don't come cheap. So I wonder how long it takes for ROI. But I imagine once the upfront cost has been recouped, they save money over buying parts. Especially if you have a seven car racing organization, like DSR. Don might chime in on this aspect, but if he doesn't want to discuss that, I'd understand.
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Look at the teams that are winning. Now look at how many of them are completely in-house. The ROI aspect is done; the machines have paid for themselves already. Now let's change the rules and put a $500k annual cap on running a fuel car. Or a PS car, for that matter. Who wins? The team that will be spending that on getting to the races, and buying 4130 and aluminum block in bulk so that their stuff is always fresh? Or is the winners circle full of guys with welded-up heads and blowers that are 6% down on boost because they are unable to buy/build a new casing?

So, a reduction in the cost/ placing a budget cap helps who, exactly?
 
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Registered member said:
Look at the teams that are winning. Now look at how many of them are completely in-house. The ROI aspect is done; the machines have paid for themselves already. Now let's change the rules and put a $500k annual cap on running a fuel car. Or a PS car, for that matter. Who wins? The team that will be spending that on getting to the races, and buying 4130 and aluminum block in bulk so that their stuff is always fresh? Or is the winners circle full of guys with welded-up heads and blowers that are 6% down on boost because they are unable to buy/build a new casing?

So, a reduction in the cost/ placing a budget cap helps who, exactly?
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What is boils done to (in my opinion - as uneducated as it is), is that whoever can convert that 500K to the best tune up to save on attrition of parts and a decent tune up. Not sure if that R&D can be done on that kind of budget. Maybe Big Daddy's suggestion to limit the number of parts that can be used in a race is what would do the trick. The top dogs are those who can make their parts last, regardless of how they obtain them.
 
Registered member said:
What is boils done to (in my opinion - as uneducated as it is), is that whoever can convert that 500K to the best tune up to save on attrition of parts and a decent tune up. Not sure if that R&D can be done on that kind of budget. Maybe Big Daddy's suggestion to limit the number of parts that can be used in a race is what would do the trick. The top dogs are those who can make their parts last, regardless of how they obtain them.
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Ok... So now we have 6 cars in nitro that have got that figured out. Eight on the trailer guaranteed- hopefully to make it to the next race if they have the parts and money to do so (let's say we are at this part of the season, and attrition in Vegas was hard...)
Two of the eight left go boom in the lights and now have their second (and possibly last) spares on the car.

Eight cars hit the lanes, six cars make decent passes, but of the four that advance, two are wounded and out of parts...

Your semis are now two singles because the wounded cars come up but are dead at the line... The right parts would have gotten them there, but they are now at their parts/$$ cap and were praying for a miracle. Finalist number one limps through to save parts for the final; finalist number two has a worse time of it and is now a spectator for the finals once they get back to the pits and survey their remaking parts...

Final round guy makes a half-hearted single for the Wally, hoping to keep parts good for the next race...

What a great way to attract the fans, huh?
 
Registered member said:
Ok... So now we have 6 cars in nitro that have got that figured out. Eight on the trailer guaranteed- hopefully to make it to the next race if they have the parts and money to do so (let's say we are at this part of the season, and attrition in Vegas was hard...)
Two of the eight left go boom in the lights and now have their second (and possibly last) spares on the car.

Eight cars hit the lanes, six cars make decent passes, but of the four that advance, two are wounded and out of parts...

Your semis are now two singles because the wounded cars come up but are dead at the line... The right parts would have gotten them there, but they are now at their parts/$$ cap and were praying for a miracle. Finalist number one limps through to save parts for the final; finalist number two has a worse time of it and is now a spectator for the finals once they get back to the pits and survey their remaking parts...

Final round guy makes a half-hearted single for the Wally, hoping to keep parts good for the next race...

What a great way to attract the fans, huh?
Click to expand...

Good point. Seems to me to be an intractable problem.
 
Registered member said:
Ok...

Eight cars hit the lanes, six cars make decent passes, but of the four that advance, two are wounded and out of parts...

Your semis are now two singles because the wounded cars come up but are dead at the line... The right parts would have gotten them there, but they are now at their parts/$$ cap and were praying for a miracle. Finalist number one limps through to save parts for the final; finalist number two has a worse time of it and is now a spectator for the finals once they get back to the pits and survey their remaking parts...

Final round guy makes a half-hearted single for the Wally, hoping to keep parts good for the next race...

What a great way to attract the fans, huh?
Click to expand...

Welcome to the 60s
 
Why not limit blower overdrive more, reduce fuel pump size and rear wing surface. All will drop costs over time and make it more affordable.
 
Registered member said:
Why not limit blower overdrive more, reduce fuel pump size and rear wing surface. All will drop costs over time and make it more affordable.
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I think the road block is the big teams themselves. They say any change would cost them too much money. Until the NHRA straps on a set, the teams will dictate the fuel classes.
 
I read a story with Jim O, and he made a lot of sense, just limit the size of the intake valves and everything else falls in place.
 
I believe the problem started when the Pro classes were removed from the Divisional meets
And the addition of too many National meets. Then a normal working guy could miss work
On a Friday and still run a Pro Class in his division and still save vacation time for an occasional
National meet near by. Think back of all the two & three person teams, mostly all blue collar type.
The loss of occasional Match race also didn't help with these small time racers.
In all I believe that the times / economics have all helped kill off the Backbone of Pro Racing
 
That's evolution in motorsports. I don't think a couple of blue collar buddies can combine their resources and go run an Indy Car or NASCAR effort either. The "backbone" of professional racing of any type is money. When gearhead buddies ran fuel cars back in the '60s, it was just the fastest category in the drag racing hobby.
 
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