So you're Alan Johnson

[Rat]

Patrick, I find it amazing that you write for a living. I had to read some of that rant three times to figure out what you were saying...

As for holeshots (like everything else we're discussing), there are things other than the driver that go into a holeshot loss. Yes, the driver has to leave late, but the car also has to contribute. The run has to be a loss, to be a holeshot loss. If the car is strong enough, it will make up any RT deficit, and the run won't be a loss. Lex runs a strong car, in a series where he stands out by a significant amount over his peers. Not many losses, let alone holeshot losses.

You guys are also completely forgetting that many things other than this amorphous "passion" go into reaction times. Like innate ability (genetics), like eyesight (my RTs got much better with better glasses), like car setup, like distractions, like money for more practice laps, and so on.

For example, Patrick, you cite Brandon who had a marked change. He got married around then, no? Changed long time crew chief around then? NHRA changed the rules about practice days around then, no? The Bernsteins lost a long time sponsor around then, no? Who KNOWS what contributed. I know for a fact you don't.

In short, your assertion that people don't have good reaction times because they don't want it badly enough it just pooh. You can't simply "will" your way to better lights. And I find it offensive that you'll sit behind your keyboards and pontificate about other people's "passion" -- about what's in someone else's mind.

Thank you for the criticism, you really think I write like this professionally? Do I take mater seriously? No, every f---in post if the bullseye is not on my back it's on somebody else's. That's the game of this site since day one. You can't post on here without ever getting a bullseye posted on your back that gets passed around to a new member each thread.

Who said anything about a car making a left late a holeshot loss or tuning it into a win, this is about the tree and nothing else. This is not about the car being powerful enough to get a win anyway so don't even bring that into this. This is about how the driver and the car reacts, not about the rest of the run, YOU of all people know that a holeshot loss or a leave first stat is all about how the driver reacted, yes it's unforgiving for a slow reacting car, but the car is not always the factor. What you said about Lex means nothing because we are talking about stats that apply to the driver only, not any other person. It's also common sense that not 1 drag car reacts perfect every time.

So you are attacking over facts the we agree with? Yes Brandon had a lot of changes from 2003-2008 in his career, but it's not an excuse. I never said he had no passion because he did, he still was all over the place on the tree and i see effort. I said that his passion and focus must have been greatly affected during that time and that I AM CORRECT saying that his mind and or confidence level was not really focused enough to be able to provide good consistant stats.

So can't you see what I am trying to say without giving me a hard time? And of course I take it personal what you said, It's like my writing I take a ton of heat for not really proof reading or wording in a better way what I write, but when it's for a paycheck, I shape up right away, I'm on this site for a hobby, I do not need to be perfect for a hobby. It's only a blog that people outside of drag racing have no idea even exists, I have several contracts with my employer because when it counts, i write well.

 

[Rat]

Yes it can and let me give you an example of how. Brandon uses a McKinney chassis and Antron uses a Hadman. The amount of throttle travel and the length of the throttle cable differs by chassis design. Also, the travel of the throttle can differ based upon driver preference. Some drivers like more throttle travel because it can make the car easier to pedal if necessary. Some drivers like shorter throttle travel because it improves reaction times. It's all driver preference. The difference in throttles between the TF car I work on and the NFC I have driven are night and day. Since I do non-throttle stop burnouts in the NFC, I need to be able to work the throttle more, thus I need to have more travel. I guarantee you this is doing me no favors when it comes to my reaction times.

I'm not sure what makes you think you are the authority of knowing the level of passion a driver has. It borders on disrespect and sheer ignorance for you to think you can speak of how passionate a driver based solely on there reaction times. You keep saying you're not sure how we racers don't understand the argument that you're making, and accept it as overwhelmingly factual and valid. Well I can't speak for anyone else, I will say this. It's because you're argument makes absolutely zero sense to me.

Can you even fully blame me? Your educated, you brought one hell of an example to the table. Does the general public let alone the NHRA stat buffs know anything about what you wrote, Not a chance. The stats in drag racing are EXTREMELY unforgiven and until someone creates a new stat for driver r/t vs. 60 ft vs. when the car affected the start, in a way that people can understand it they will remain an extremely unforgiving stat. Im taking alot of heat because you and chris are more educated on the physics of a racecar. I been paid to calculate and publish driver stats that are extremely blind to every factor but the driver so you can't really want to kill me over me doing my job. I mean no disrespect. So on the other side of the coin, are you saying Brandon's stats would of been better if he has a hadman? And if that's the case, wouldn't the driver make the chassis change for the next order? there is no way Brandon ran 2003-2008 with 1 chassis, so is it fair to say he is not aware of the chassis difference

 

[MM]

Can you even fully blame me? Your educated, you brought one hell of an example to the table. Does the general public let alone the NHRA stat buffs know anything about what you wrote, Not a chance. The stats in drag racing are EXTREMELY unforgiven and until someone creates a new stat for driver r/t vs. 60 ft vs. when the car affected the start, in a way that people can understand it they will remain an extremely unforgiving stat. Im taking alot of heat because you and chris are more educated on the physics of a racecar. I been paid to calculate and publish driver stats that are extremely blind to every factor but the driver so you can't really want to kill me over me doing my job. I mean no disrespect. So on the other side of the coin, are you saying Brandon's stats would of been better if he has a hadman? And if that's the case, wouldn't the driver make the chassis change for the next order? there is no way Brandon ran 2003-2008 with 1 chassis, so is it fair to say he is not aware of the chassis difference

No I don't blame you at all, but what I am saying is that you may want to refrain from making outlandish statements such as a driver's level of passion is directly linked to how good their reaction times are. When I think of passionate drivers I think of guys like the Greek. He still works on his car pretty much every day all year round, helps with the service in between rounds and drives the truck and trailer to and from the races at 80+ years of age. However, he has been known to have .200 light from time to time, but that doesn't make me doubt his passion for a second. I am sure you can find an example like this for every driver in every class of competition. Statistics can be very useful tools and interesting conversation topics, but like Chris said earlier, they often do not tell the whole story. When it comes to R/T, some people just have quicker reflexes, just as some people can physically run faster than others.

The chassis example I gave earlier was just that, an example of how a car can consistently effect reaction times. I am not saying that was the case with Brandon. And while you are right, he did not have the same chassis for all those years, the cockpits are often recycled. What I mean by that is when a team decides it's time for new pipe, they will have their current chassis(es) front halved and back halved while keeping the driver's compartment in tact. I believe the one's Brandon uses (or I guess used is the case now) were originally Kenny's.

 

[clwill]

Patrick, perhaps Mike and I can pitch in and buy you a clue.

You waved the Joons claim about holeshot losses in our face as proof of your theory. But, a "holeshot loss" requires two components: leaving second and losing. If you don't lose (because the car made up the difference) it's not a holeshot loss. A car with a tenth on the rest of the field isn't going to get many holeshot losses.

As for chassis, that isn't just the driver's choice. The choice may be the crew chief's, the owner's, heck it might be even some kind of relationship thing ("we've always used Murf's pipe"). They often choose them based on which they feel they can tune better, or that is more consistent, or is easier to work on, or even just fits their motor combo better.

And not only is there the throttle cable setup that Mike discusses, but different pipe reacts differently. Even chassis to chassis, let alone builder to builder. Who knows, maybe Murf put another stiffening cross brace in the later cars and that helped Brandon's RTs.

With every post you make, all you're doing is demonstrating how little you understand about this, and this sport. "Better to keep a closed mouth and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

 

[DrRocket]

Each one is different

It's like that with things that are, for all practical purposes, hand built, one at a time.

I've heard MANY crew chiefs say that you can build the same design chassis on the same jig, using the same material from the same rack, and they'll STILL come out with different personalities.

It's like the old Kentucky long rifle. Each one was hand built, and each one had a differenct feel and a different "sweet spot."

 

[the zone]

I have read most of the posts in this thread and am very surprised by some of Patrick's comments as well on passion. There are so many variables like Mike and Chris have stated. The way a top fuel driver stages the car based on the RPM's, the clutch, the pedal, the pedal throw, the driver's eye sight, the lighting, the lane he is in, to many to count. When a driver does not have lane choice they may get in the bad lane because of the lighting, and that affects it big time. One of the factors a crew chief and driver make when they have lane choice is lighting. Someone who is in the bottom half has way more to overcome than the guy who has a better qualified car. When you have 5-8 inches of travel from stage to deep (depending on rollout) the rt can differentiate by a wide margin. It is very difficult to have a top fuel car or flopper roll in consistently do to the clutch and brake handle etc. those 5-8 inches can be as much as .05. If there was a way for a top fuel driver to have the exact same position (many are close ) on the line every time like the super classes or bracket classes, that driver would have a huge advantage race day.

Guys like Langdon, Massey and Torrence and even Antron Brown all cut their teeth in other classes where RTs will win you way more races than having more HP. Top Fuel and Funny car has changed in the last 5 years or decade because the classes have more parity. Force did not need to be as sharp back in the day either did Prudhomme.

Stat's are too one dimensional Patrick, even guys like Bloom and Frey use their vast knowledge of stat's with a disclaimer of sorts.

Your contract with NHRA for the stat book should come with the variables that include the things that Chris and Mike talk about.

The way you word it is way to black and white and this sport is not built that way anymore.

Dean

 

[Rat]

Patrick, perhaps Mike and I can pitch in and buy you a clue.

You waved the Joons claim about holeshot losses in our face as proof of your theory. But, a "holeshot loss" requires two components: leaving second and losing. If you don't lose (because the car made up the difference) it's not a holeshot loss. A car with a tenth on the rest of the field isn't going to get many holeshot losses.

As for chassis, that isn't just the driver's choice. The choice may be the crew chief's, the owner's, heck it might be even some kind of relationship thing ("we've always used Murf's pipe"). They often choose them based on which they feel they can tune better, or that is more consistent, or is easier to work on, or even just fits their motor combo better.

And not only is there the throttle cable setup that Mike discusses, but different pipe reacts differently. Even chassis to chassis, let alone builder to builder. Who knows, maybe Murf put another stiffening cross brace in the later cars and that helped Brandon's RTs.

With every post you make, all you're doing is demonstrating how little you understand about this, and this sport. "Better to keep a closed mouth and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."

I'll settle for what you said. How little I know about this I can't argue that, but how little I know about the sport is really an absurd thing to say and is wayyyy out of line and so inaccurate it's almost laughable. Anyway i admit my fault, moving on

 

[clwill]

how little I know about the sport is really an absurd thing to say and is wayyyy out of line and so inaccurate it's almost laughable.

I apologize. But only know what I see posted here on the Mater...

 

[Rat]

I apologize. But only know what I see posted here on the Mater...

I'll give you credit on any comments I made similar to this, but not on the history and facts of the NHRA.

 

[Deuce]

I'll give you credit on any comments I made similar to this, but not on the history and facts of the NHRA.

I don't think anyone was questioning you on the facts you posted. It was more about your assumption that "passion" played in those facts.

 

[Rat]

Overall I will admit it may of been bad to link passion and reaction as a 100% relationship, but I will leave off saying that there is a link, just not as solid as I stated.

 

[Bobby]

I want to see Bazemore back out there. He did a great job when he moved to T/F in 07, and has unfinished business out there. He's a perfect replacement for Del. A guy who paid his dues, and has the experience to get it done.

 

[DixonFan]

I think it might take a fair bit of money to earn the right to sit in Alan Johnson TF Car.

 

[HEMI6point1]

I think it might take a fair bit of money to earn the right to sit in Alan Johnson TF Car.

I think Alan is already paid up from the sheik.

 

[Rat]

I agree, I do not think it is about money one bit as a majority of the community thinks. Alan has a great eye for talent, it's his eyes that are going to look at the talent, not the check.

 

[Bullard Anderson]

I am not going to do a poll or anything but here is my question:

A. Does Alan Johnson have a great eye for talent?

OR

B. Do the guys in the drivers seat have a great ability to not screw up given that beauty of consistent bad azz set up?

 

[DixonFan]

I agree, I do not think it is about money one bit as a majority of the community thinks. Alan has a great eye for talent, it's his eyes that are going to look at the talent, not the check.

IMO its all about money. Alan is a very smart guy and he knows it takes money to drag race not Talent. So if Driver A brings a check and Driver B brings talent. Which would you choose? I choose Check. Plus, The Shieks money isn't going to be there forever so it might not be a bad choice to go with the check....JMO