Dave
Nitro Member
Flaps wouldn't have made a difference because the car was already upside down. The flaps, if on the car, and open, would have been torn off by the roof dragging the racetrack.
Nitromater
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Should they give the PS more downforce??
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Flaps wouldn't have made a difference because the car was already upside down. The flaps, if on the car, and open, would have been torn off by the roof dragging the racetrack.
Unfortunately roof flaps won't work in a pro stock car. In 1994 at the IHRA Winternationals in Darlington, Roy Hill got out of shape and flew his car past the finish line and over the other line guardrail. When interviewed on ESPN, he vowed to be back at Bristol with roof flaps in his new Thunderbird. The car never was made with them. Back in the mid 90's it was more of a problem of lift off with the cars. Roy's flip for example, as well as Kurt Johnson at Phoenix in 93, and Ed Heck at the 94 Winston finals. The problem facing the current cars are they seem to lean or tip over when they get sideways. If you look back at most recent crashes, and i'll list them below, the cars turn sideways and flip over roof first instead of underside first. Examples : Shane Gray, Paul Pittman, John Gaydosh, Rodger Brogdon, Kenny Koretsky, Vinny Deceglie, Gordie Rivera, Ron Krisher (Indy and Seattle), Bruce Allen, Taylor Lastor, Jason Line, and Allen Johnson. The oldest of those dating back to 1999. In a Sprint Cup style crash the car will rotate a full 90 degrees and THEN the back of the car will start to lift off and it will flip with the underside of the car facing forward. The pro stock cars flip with the roof forward. The Cup car had to be at a certain angle for the roof flaps to actually deploy. A pro stock car never makes it that far around before it's turning over. I don't know what solution could be done to prevent the cars from just leaning over the way they do. I think it's more of a center of gravity issue. The cup car has a very high center of gravity vs the pro stock car, making it a lot more stable. The pro stock cars were never meant to turn.
Good post. The only thing that I would add is that Nascars tend to be able to slide for a longer distance than pro stocks which enable the flaps enough time to work. Obviously now the flaps keep them grounded longer, but even pre flaps. You don't usually see pro stock spin out, once they get a little sideways they are on the roof.
I
smokemasterJ
Nitro Member
I think we are talking about trying to prevent the reverse blow over that Gray had. I don't think there's anything you could do to stop them from rolling over.
Dave
Nitro Member
Oh if that's the case no, that'll never be stopped either.
Pro stock cars are like tail dragger airplanes, the center of gravity is far enough back that the rear end really wants to come around and see what the front end is doing up there!
I want to rent the "top of Dave's head" for a few years. He seems to have a lot of stuff stored up there!
I want to rent the "top of Dave's head" for a few years. He seems to have a lot of stuff stored up there!
Dave
Nitro Member
At high speed tracks, they run a right side window though, and the driver side is mostly window net.
Bullet
Nitro Member
Gray would have needed floor flaps..... the car was upside down sliding backwards when it "blew over"... one of the stranger sights I have seen in a PS wreck.
John Capps Sr.
Nitro Member
We used to call that (Rotate, then Roof-Forward roll-over) the "Pro-Stock-Pitch"...
jackass
Nitro Member
Talked to a buddy of mine last night that is a areo specialist with a Cup team and was at the strip sunday... he said the NHRA might look at making the side plates on the rear spoilers a bit taller... more down than up.. would slow the quick rotation when the car starts to get out of shape and possibly give the driver more time to react...
Sean D, shondoo
Nitro Member
Dave
Nitro Member
The other thing you have to remember about cup cars are they have roof rails and a HUGE shark fin that goes across the rear window and deck lid. A pro stock car is a bubble by comparison.
If you look at things like Greg Anderson's crash at Joliet in 2002 when the freeze plug came out, that thing was upside down before half track. I don't know that the speed and aero play all that much into the tipping over when they go sideways. You never know though! I'm all for anything that keeps them on the ground and between the walls.
If you look at things like Greg Anderson's crash at Joliet in 2002 when the freeze plug came out, that thing was upside down before half track. I don't know that the speed and aero play all that much into the tipping over when they go sideways. You never know though! I'm all for anything that keeps them on the ground and between the walls.
DrRocket
Nitro Member
I don't think knowing what to do is the issue, I think wanting to do it is the issue. I don't care what class it is, no racer wants to make any changes that might slow their car down.
I'm sure you're right. If only ONE racer does it, then yeah, it's an issue, but if ALL the racers make the same change, then it's a level playing field for all.
there is, of course, the added expense of making that change, but the suggested one wouldn't be all that extensive, I would think.
You might want to check the rules p/s already has a minimum rear axle weight dictated by NHRA, and taking timing out is an option unfortunately it doesn't work, also a p/s engine accelerates much faster than most other classes and that is part of the problem increased engine speed means increased plate load on the clutch so if the tires are already spinning this just makes it worse.especially on the gear change they tried weight on the front years ago and NHRA took that away when they mandated the front fuel cell.when NHRAchanged the rear axel weight, most teams took that weight and moved it to the front under or along side the engine.If the NHRA wants to continue running fuel cars to 1000 foot and P/S to 1320 the least they can do is prep the last 320' for safer racing.There are several tracks that are known to push water up onto the racing surface, Topeka and Englishtown are the first couple that come to mind. Maybe, just maybe it would be wiser to disontinue racing at those tracks until the water issue is resolved, if not than come up with a way to properly prep those tracks. That's not really asking for too much. better yet, make everyone run 1000'
pat
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
P. J. O'Rourke
Last edited:
You might want to check the rules p/s already has a minimum rear axle weight dictated by NHRA, and taking timing out is an option unfortunately it doesn't work, also a p/s engine accelerates much faster than most other classes and that is part of the problem increased engine speed means increased plate load on the clutch so if the tires are already spinning this just makes it worse.especially on the gear change they tried weight on the front years ago and NHRA took that away when they mandated the front fuel cell.when NHRAchanged the rear axel weight, most teams took that weight and moved it to the front under or along side the engine.If the NHRA wants to continue running fuel cars to 1000 foot and P/S to 1320 the least they can do is prep the last 320' for safer racing.There are several tracks that are known to push water up onto the racing surface, Topeka and Englishtown are the first couple that come to mind. Maybe, just maybe it would be wiser to disontinue racing at those tracks until the water issue is resolved, if not than come up with a way to properly prep those tracks. That's not really asking for too much. better yet, make everyone run 1000'
pat
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
P. J. O'Rourke
Pat
You don't know how good it makes me feel to see you posting again. For those who don't know,Pat was a long time crew chief for WJ.
Poole
Hey Fossil Dick, how have you been? I left the circus three years ago. Courtney was pregnant with our second kid and due to go into labor when I left for the Finals. I got off the plane and on my way through the jetway, she called and said I better get home. So the gate agent put me on the next flight back to CO and I haven't been to the track since.
Sometimes I think I miss it yet I easily talk myself out of it. About four years ago, I made some electronics for my dads farm Its taken on a life of its own and kept me entertained.
ELECTRICPLANTER.COM
Hows Kevin? Give me a ring sometime and we can bs.
Sometimes I think I miss it yet I easily talk myself out of it. About four years ago, I made some electronics for my dads farm Its taken on a life of its own and kept me entertained.
ELECTRICPLANTER.COM
Hows Kevin? Give me a ring sometime and we can bs.
You might want to check the rules p/s already has a minimum rear axle weight dictated by NHRA, and taking timing out is an option unfortunately it doesn't work, also a p/s engine accelerates much faster than most other classes and that is part of the problem increased engine speed means increased plate load on the clutch so if the tires are already spinning this just makes it worse.especially on the gear change they tried weight on the front years ago and NHRA took that away when they mandated the front fuel cell.when NHRAchanged the rear axel weight, most teams took that weight and moved it to the front under or along side the engine.If the NHRA wants to continue running fuel cars to 1000 foot and P/S to 1320 the least they can do is prep the last 320' for safer racing.There are several tracks that are known to push water up onto the racing surface, Topeka and Englishtown are the first couple that come to mind. Maybe, just maybe it would be wiser to disontinue racing at those tracks until the water issue is resolved, if not than come up with a way to properly prep those tracks. That's not really asking for too much. better yet, make everyone run 1000'
pat
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.
P. J. O'Rourke
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