my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
I vote YES!!!
Nitromater
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Should they give the PS more downforce??
- Thread starter my friends call me Zappy
- Start date
vegasnitro
Nitro Member
Put a floorpan/undertray on them with Venturis and a rear diffuser. That would be the easiest way to increase downforce without increasing drag. They will stick a lot better ... but they will pick up significant ET and MPH ... so maybe not a great idea from purely a safety perspective.
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
Letting them flip over because of lack of downforce, is not working. We need to do something.
d'kid
Nitro Member
Shane voted no, and said he should have lifted sooner... i.e. driver error... it was a track issue, not a car issue, water under the rubber...
d'kid
TooTall999
Nitro Member
More downforce on the rear would lighten the front end, causing handling problems...not a good solution
jackass
Nitro Member
Was gonna say the same thing... track issue sunday not car issue..... the left lane had "wet spots" in the concrete all along it form what i saw from the grandstands right lane had a few..but no where as close to as many as the left...
my friends call me Zappy
Nitro Member
The FC's had no problem running great ET's. They have tons of downforce.
Same track, the PS's skate around in both lanes, with little downforce.
Seems like a car problem to me.......
John Capps Sr.
Nitro Member
The car is a "Teeter-Totter", if they put more rear down-force, the front end gets "light". They could put some "rear-wing" into it AND add some front weight (front end of car is highly regulated as to shape), but they would "LOOSE E.T. due to packing the extra pounds...!!!! Heaven Forbid they put extra weight on the car. They could move ballast forward in the car, but then the rear would be "light"..., Hobb's-Choice it seems..., or does it...!!! (take some timing out...??? NEVER...!!!)
"Talk amongst yourselves"
Just funnin' ya...!!!
John C
"Talk amongst yourselves"
Just funnin' ya...!!!
John C
The FC's had no problem running great ET's. They have tons of downforce.
Same track, the PS's skate around in both lanes, with little downforce.
Seems like a car problem to me.......
Different ballgame, with the known fact that nitro cars love to be under load, the extra downforce for them probably gives them even more horsepower.
I doubt pro stock cars work that way.
John Capps Sr.
Nitro Member
I think the downforce helps them when they load the engine by keeping the tires stuck.
You are right that drag does load the motors, the funny cars go from zero to over 250 at the 660 ft. , but you are a tuff-actor if you can gain 60 or 70 on the back end... aero-drag is a MUTHER *(&*^&), I was just talkin' bout Shaft...
John C
D
Nitro Member
This is the answer, because if you watch the pro stockers, even on a good run on a good track with no cross wind they are skating around. Most stock street cars have more aero than pro stock, I guess we're just going to wait until we kill someone.
S/F
D
From the P.I.
Shane made a mistake, racecars operate on the edge, is this really news? Don't try to regulate ALL of the risk out of racing.
Did you see how much moisture was in the pits during the broadcast? Did you ever pull up the weather numbers for the Charlotte area late Sunday? The track was in as good of shape as it could be. Even Larry Morgan said that (and that is saying something).
It was just tough given all that was on the line (first race of countdown).
The best two cars made it to the final.
Weather for Dallas/Ennis this week looks pretty good ... lower 60s for lows and mid 80's for highs. Not a mention of that R stuff for a full week....
Did you see how much moisture was in the pits during the broadcast? Did you ever pull up the weather numbers for the Charlotte area late Sunday? The track was in as good of shape as it could be. Even Larry Morgan said that (and that is saying something).
It was just tough given all that was on the line (first race of countdown).
The best two cars made it to the final.
Weather for Dallas/Ennis this week looks pretty good ... lower 60s for lows and mid 80's for highs. Not a mention of that R stuff for a full week....
MM
Nitro Member
This speaks volumes. As long as humans operate the cars, there will be the risk of human error. I am of the opinion that the pro stock cars do need more down force, but this crash is NOT the reason why.
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clwill
Nitro Member
I think the confusion some have here is that the PS cars could have more downforce if they wanted it. But because of the incredibly tight competition in PS they can't afford to use any of their precious horsepower keeping the car glued down. Without mandatory requirements for downforce, you're not going to see anything change.
turbo ken
Nitro Member
texasprostocklover
Nitro Member
If you watch video, you will see that Shane got out of the groove - a big no-no. Once you are out of the groove, it's like ice skating, especially in Pro Stock. Glad Shane was ok, it could have been so much worse.
jackass
Nitro Member
The FC's had no problem running great ET's. They have tons of downforce.
Same track, the PS's skate around in both lanes, with little downforce.
Seems like a car problem to me.......
While i agree on Mikes take on the human error factor.. i the issue with PS and adding more rear down force or even rear side force for stability is to counter it you will need to compinsate with more front down forces on the car.. and you are back to square one.... and you will add more MPH and quicker ET's to the cars...
Comparing a FC to a PS is like comparing a lemon to a watermelon.. different in so many ways... not enough room to type all the factors that effect both differently...lol
IMO....there is a way to adjust the PS cars to alow for a average track under the cars that would help... but every PS driver car mfgr and hard core PS fan would go nuts and freak out on.... it could make the possible needed downforces to make the car more stabble in a even amount front to rear..BUT.. it might slow the cars some... heres where all the drag fans start sending me hate mail..lol.. take a page from NASCAR... and their Truck series stop laying the front windows back so much.. stand it up a bit more.... this would be equal to pushing donw in the center of the car for more front and rear pressure on the carws for stability... second it would force the air to go around the green house and snap back in on the rear deck to grab the rear spoiler side plates and rear wicker to force more stability to the cars...
After watching all the cars run Sunday before i left.. from PS to Pro Mod to the Alky cars.. the left lane was an issue IMO...not a massive..but enough for concern to me anyway... but what do i know.... i'm just a fan....lol
Dry Hop Doc
Nitro Member
Not the first time more down force in PS has been mentioned. The damnable "skating" issue has reared its head before with similar results.
What to do?
As our resident hot shoe MM said, you can't dial all the risk out. It's racing, for gosh sakes. It's not supposed to be risk-free.
My opinion is once young Shane got out of the groove and into the snotty bits he was in over his head. He simply didn't recognize his peril 'til the car had already rotated out of his control.
He and his pops (and I love 'em both) flat out admitted it was driver error.
Witness D. Connolly's run just a few pair later where he had the same problem at the same point on the track. You can see him reel it in the instant the car stopped moving north to south. Saved the run ... saved the package.
Dave, without question, is a much more experienced driver.
I'm just glad Shane walked away without a scratch.
What to do?
As our resident hot shoe MM said, you can't dial all the risk out. It's racing, for gosh sakes. It's not supposed to be risk-free.
My opinion is once young Shane got out of the groove and into the snotty bits he was in over his head. He simply didn't recognize his peril 'til the car had already rotated out of his control.
He and his pops (and I love 'em both) flat out admitted it was driver error.
Witness D. Connolly's run just a few pair later where he had the same problem at the same point on the track. You can see him reel it in the instant the car stopped moving north to south. Saved the run ... saved the package.
Dave, without question, is a much more experienced driver.
I'm just glad Shane walked away without a scratch.
clwill
Nitro Member
This all reminds me of when I was taking Frank Hawley's class a few years ago. During the Q&A I asked him, you've driven practically everything, is there anything you won't drive? Without even a second's thought he said PS. "The cars are just too squirrelly, no downforce, like driving on ice."
Here's a guy who could drive anything, you can toss him in a strange nitro car and he'd be comfortable one pass later. But as for PS: "no thanks, I'll pass". Says it all for me.
Here's a guy who could drive anything, you can toss him in a strange nitro car and he'd be comfortable one pass later. But as for PS: "no thanks, I'll pass". Says it all for me.
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