Post Season Countdown thoughts (1 Viewer)

[Paul]

I'm an old fart, so when the NHRA Countdown was first implemented I didn't like it as it changed a system that had worked well for a long time and that system had a lot of history and meaning associated with it.

But I'll have to admit that the last few races this year were pretty exciting with many of the championships on the line, so I'm weakening in my resistance to the countdown format.

However, in exchange for increasing the chances of year end excitement, it still seems like a screw job to the teams that earned the most total points over the year.

So why not reward those teams also, both with some recognition and some economic reward?

This has several benefits. It would make the season even more exciting and marketable for the NHRA as there would be several titles being competed for, driving up both fan interest and sponsor recognition. You could have an extra incentive for teams that "doubled up" and won both titles.

It also at least softens the screw job to the overall points leader by giving them some recognition and dough.

There can only be one overall champion (except in the WWE of course) which would have to be the countdown champion, so the name of the title of this overall points leader would take some thought, the best I can come up with is "Race Rewards Title" or something like that.

Other sports like the NFL give some recognition to teams besides just the ultimate champion (ie NFC and AFC winners), so it makes sense to spread the glory and economic rewards in the NHRA a little wider also.

 

[yoda]

I'm not crossing over (yet) to the Dark Side of accepting the C/D yet either Paul, but I will have to agree- the RACING part was pretty damn impressive in the last part of the year (and it wasn't too bad pre-Indy either).

I can't see anybody that got "screwed" regarding the points though... Everyone that would have been eligable to make a run for the championship was, and those that (once again) had their chit together and had racing luck on their side advanced forward, and those that stumbled did so at great expense to their season.

I would still like to see a format that takes the Top 8 racing teams and seeds them on one side of the ladder via regular qualifying, and the other side of the ladder be the balance of the cars not in the countdown qualify for the 8 spots on that side of the ladder. Then the "Playoff contenders" only beat on each other and at the end of the day, Top 8 team that wins the semis gets to race against hungry, non-seeded team with something to prove by beating the "ranked" team...

 

[none]

Simply call them the regular season champion........and then on to the "Playoffs"

 

[NitroMustang65]

I would still like to see a format that takes the Top 8 racing teams and seeds them on one side of the ladder via regular qualifying, and the other side of the ladder be the balance of the cars not in the countdown qualify for the 8 spots on that side of the ladder. Then the "Playoff contenders" only beat on each other and at the end of the day, Top 8 team that wins the semis gets to race against hungry, non-seeded team with something to prove by beating the "ranked" team...

Now that would be a great idea, seriously.

 

[Rajunz]

I liked the qualifying bonus points, that sure added to the excitement, especially Saturday night in Pomona.

 

[PJ]

am I allowed to even comments on these type of threads anymore?

I do want it noted that a) I didn't start the thread and b) this post has not taken a stance on the countdown.

 

[Meeks]

I'm not crossing over (yet) to the Dark Side of accepting the C/D yet either Paul, but I will have to agree- the RACING part was pretty damn impressive in the last part of the year (and it wasn't too bad pre-Indy either).

I can't see anybody that got "screwed" regarding the points though... Everyone that would have been eligable to make a run for the championship was, and those that (once again) had their chit together and had racing luck on their side advanced forward, and those that stumbled did so at great expense to their season.

I would still like to see a format that takes the Top 8 racing teams and seeds them on one side of the ladder via regular qualifying, and the other side of the ladder be the balance of the cars not in the countdown qualify for the 8 spots on that side of the ladder. Then the "Playoff contenders" only beat on each other and at the end of the day, Top 8 team that wins the semis gets to race against hungry, non-seeded team with something to prove by beating the "ranked" team...

I like your idea...
I also like having a regular season that ends at Indy with the playoffs beginning after Indy very similar to how they do it in football and other sports. Unlike those though, I'd like the ones who didnt make it into the top 10 to still be able to compete. All of the points earned from the beginning of the season through Indy should be rewarded somehow.

 

[mick]

23 events, each with qualifying, racing and champions.

point race is glue that holds a 23 chapter book together - only reason
for a casual fan to follow the 'sport' to it's seasons end.

personally i could care less about the points - i'm watching if they run for
no points or a 1000 points - really don't care even who wins - for this
hardcore fan each race is it's own excitement.........the competition is
what get's me.

take the limited money available (the 500k season ending bonus checks)
and split it up; or go find sponsors for big cash races.
or redo the big cash races and have a reward similar to triple crown -
payout for a huge accomplishment over series of races.........

examples:
"the big four" - have extra winner's $ for four races, let's say
winter's, gator's, englishtown(can't remember what they call it now),
and indy..........find a sponsor for those four races - if one guy win's all
4 they get a million bucks, and they'd get it in indy!

"western swing" - nothing new, but instead of a broomstick, give them
a $500k!.....find a sponsor for these three races.

then do the playoffs after indy.
mix it up during the whole year. make the beginning and middle just as much
fun as the end.

 

[yoda]

I like your idea...
I also like having a regular season that ends at Indy with the playoffs beginning after Indy very similar to how they do it in football and other sports. Unlike those though, I'd like the ones who didnt make it into the top 10 to still be able to compete. All of the points earned from the beginning of the season through Indy should be rewarded somehow.

Thanks Mikeala... My thought would be keeiping it as it is now, so the "regular season ends" at Indy (as it does now), and then the "post season" would put the new ladder into play, with the 8 teams that make the Countdown on their own side of the ladder- but that would be the only place they are separated- they would still run qualifying passes as usual, but their seeding would be for one side of the ladder. We still get a 16 car/ per class show (if there are 8 non C/D cars to fill the other side of the ladder), and everyone still competes.

Anyone in the "playoffs" is REWARDED by being able to run for their chance at a better spot on the podium at the awards ceremony after P2... You want a better position and a bigger check? Better have your best game on against the Top 7, because that's who you have to knock out every race post-Indy; NOT some team that shows up with a 3-race budget that is just happy to get into the field only to become first round fodder.

And those not in the C/D get the chance to become the hero team of the "B Squad" by getting to the final round and taking their shot against the best of the Top 8 that day. This goes back to the days of the "A MAin" and B Main" days when they had to seed 100 top fuel cars and the best of the two groups got to square off to be Top Eliminator. since we now HAVE to live with the Countdown and much smaller fields, how about generating some "excitement" that way... And the guys in the booth now have 2 semis that are basically "final rounds" and then a real Final to rev folks up about.

 

[Zak]

...
I would still like to see a format that takes the Top 8 racing teams and seeds them on one side of the ladder via regular qualifying...

I think that's pretty much what we saw down the stretch with the one lane race tracks in first round of T/F.

 

[mick]

I would still like to see a format that takes the Top 8 racing teams and seeds them on one side of the ladder via regular qualifying, and the other side of the ladder be the balance of the cars not in the countdown qualify for the 8 spots on that side of the ladder. Then the "Playoff contenders" only beat on each other and at the end of the day, Top 8 team that wins the semis gets to race against hungry, non-seeded team with something to prove by beating the "ranked" team...

so the guy who finished 9th after indy still can qualify #1 at the last 6 races
and collect #1 qual. dough, he then just get's seeded #9 on elim. ladder?
the leader of group B so to speak.

in a sense this format would provide a millican or hartley extra incentive to
attend the final 6 races as their chance to collect semi-final money would
arguably have better odds than current format.
flipside of that coin would mean (4) top eight teams would leave each of
final (6) events with only 1st rnd. loser money.
season end purse would have to compensate 1 thru 8 accordingly.

 

[yoda]

so the guy who finished 9th after indy still can qualify #1 at the last 6 races
and collect #1 qual. dough, he then just get's seeded #9 on elim. ladder?
the leader of group B so to speak..

Yup...

season end purse would have to compensate 1 thru 8 accordingly.

Seen the size of the checks they got yesterday?

 

[d'kid]

Martini,

I've been saying that for the last two seasons, but let's refine it even more. Keep the top ten, but Only have eight car (or bike) fields...

after all, the season is over, now we are in the play-offs... the play-offs will be five races, the tracks drawn after the finals at Indy... No 'Company' owned track can host a play-off race... no single track owner may host more than one play-off race... Dallas will be given a date the week BEFORE G'ville, Maple Grove will get a date between 1 May and 30 June... That's 19 races in 8 Months as the regular season... or 7 months if season doesn't start until feb...

play-offs, we eliminate 4 company tracks, and three same owner tracks, so it's a 50/50 that a track will get a play-off race... makes for a better tv package, all of todays markets get a full 16 car field once a year... and we get a live, short attention-span viewer market share....

all win, except for the NHRA, which will not get two races at it's home track...

d'kid

 

[tcrawf]

I think we should do a 1v8, 9v16 . . . and so. The "B" Team idea is great but we all know would never EVER happen.

If the NHRA wants to be NASCAR's week-old leftover ideas then why not take the best one they got?

Do one race that is a no-holds barred money only race (no points). Do it in the middle of the country and throw up $1mil or whatever to whoever wins. Shoot, do three runs and take the best run so we can get "small time" guys with a one-hit wonder car.

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

I'm not crossing over (yet) to the Dark Side

I would still like to see a format that takes the Top 8 racing teams and seeds them on one side of the ladder via regular qualifying, and the other side of the ladder be the balance of the cars not in the countdown qualify for the 8 spots on that side of the ladder. Then the "Playoff contenders" only beat on each other and at the end of the day, Top 8 team that wins the semis gets to race against hungry, non-seeded team with something to prove by beating the "ranked" team...

I'm not crossing over either. BUT if we are stuck with this CD or playoff format, then Martins idea is the best I've seen. NO WAY should a non-contender car be able to eliminate a contendar car. jmo

 

[PJ]

Martin I've begged for the 8 on one side of the ladder for awhile now. I still prefer a season long deal as it is part of what makes our sport unique and is true to the nature of the sport but if they want to have a playoff then actually make it a playoff. Seeing playoff cars race non playoff cars is perhaps my biggest issue with the current format.

Under this there would actually get the playoff intesity and excitement they wish. Non playoff teams still get to race and tv time for their sponsors.
They could even make the final non points (to prevent dives) for all I care.
No more half way, make it a playoff or make it season long. This hybrid system that we have now is missing the mark

 

[yoda]

Martin I've begged for the 8 on one side of the ladder for awhile now. I still prefer a season long deal as it is part of what makes our sport unique and is true to the nature of the sport but if they want to have a playoff then actually make it a playoff. Seeing playoff cars race non playoff cars is perhaps my biggest issue with the current format.

Under this there would actually get the playoff intesity and excitement they wish. Non playoff teams still get to race and tv time for their sponsors.
They could even make the final non points (to prevent dives) for all I care.
No more half way, make it a playoff or make it season long. This hybrid system that we have now is missing the mark

Maybe the begging is coming from the wrong sources, Peej...

I'm wondering what the opinions of our local pro 'Maters, that would be directly affected by another change, is on this topic? Arend, Schu, Reinhart, Ferri, et al- is this concept barking up the wrong tree, and if so, how come?
Is it because Glendora doesn't particularly care about what the fan thinks, or is there something inherently flawed about the proposal that would make it not work? Or could the proposal be put into action without too much resistance and looked on as another step in the maturing of the Countdown system?

 

[Rajunz]

Thanks Mikeala... My thought would be keeiping it as it is now, so the "regular season ends" at Indy (as it does now), and then the "post season" would put the new ladder into play, with the 8 teams that make the Countdown on their own side of the ladder- but that would be the only place they are separated- they would still run qualifying passes as usual, but their seeding would be for one side of the ladder. We still get a 16 car/ per class show (if there are 8 non C/D cars to fill the other side of the ladder), and everyone still competes.

Anyone in the "playoffs" is REWARDED by being able to run for their chance at a better spot on the podium at the awards ceremony after P2... You want a better position and a bigger check? Better have your best game on against the Top 7, because that's who you have to knock out every race post-Indy; NOT some team that shows up with a 3-race budget that is just happy to get into the field only to become first round fodder.

And those not in the C/D get the chance to become the hero team of the "B Squad" by getting to the final round and taking their shot against the best of the Top 8 that day. This goes back to the days of the "A MAin" and B Main" days when they had to seed 100 top fuel cars and the best of the two groups got to square off to be Top Eliminator. since we now HAVE to live with the Countdown and much smaller fields, how about generating some "excitement" that way... And the guys in the booth now have 2 semis that are basically "final rounds" and then a real Final to rev folks up about.

What do you do when one of your "Top 8" can't qualify for the field???

 

[yoda]

What do you do when one of your "Top 8" can't qualify for the field???

In the case of Force after the Dallas accident, where that team would not be returning for the remainder of the season, the pre- Playoff Number 9 position would be slotted in as an alternate for future race days, but the rules currently in place by NHRA for how Countdown teams earn points and get paid out at the end of the season would still apply. Currently I believe that once you are in the Countdown, you can't place any lower than the bottom of the Countdown.

In the case of a one-race situation due to breakage or an incident, the team that couldn't come back using the "Eddie Hill Rule", would be seeded in the position they qualified at, and the run on elimination day would go off as a single- no alternate would move up. Could diving by not appearing then become an issue then again? Possibly, but would YOU want to explain to your sponsors on Monday why your car can't seem to make it to the lanes on Sunday? Too many of these teams are big business, and can't afford to have an unexplained no-show in the playoffs.

 

[Bullard Anderson]

I like the Countdown very much. I think the only mistake the NHRA made was the qualifying points being counted post mid season. In my opinion as an organization you finish under the same rules you started with at Pomona1. You don't do things during a season the changes the way points are awarded after Race 1. The same amount of points must be available at Pomona1 as Pomona2. They screwed the pooch here.
However I have no problem with the qualifying points being awarded. It's a great idea that should have been implemented at Pomona1 2009 or waited until Pomona1 2010.