Improving NHRA Safety... (1 Viewer)

[Speedy_Sticks]

When did you guys last go to a driver's funeral?

 

[d'kid]

When did you guys last go to a driver's funeral?

Personally, back in the mid 80's, not that it's any of your business.

You?

d'kid

 

[Speedy_Sticks]

Obviously not been enough then, I must have been to about 14 or so, that included family, but most were of School friends who had died from terminal illnesses. When you go to those funerals you get to hear and see the people they leftt behind and what that person meant to them. You also get hear what may have done with the rest of their lives..

 

[Speedy_Sticks]

Obviously not been enough then, must have been to about 14 or so, that included family, but most were of School friends who had died from terminal illnesses. When you go to those funerals you get to hear and see the people they leftt behind and what that person meant to them. You also get hear what may have done with the rest of their lives..

 

[Bob]

I have been supporting the ramp theory for many years and it's so simple I don't understand the opposition. Remove the sand trap and replace it with a ramp. The car is then propeled up and over any obstacles, the roof mounted chute deploys automatically and the car falls gently to the ground.

 

[Bob]

I don't have the exact answer, but typically the rule book tells you what you CAN and CANNOT do. As stated by others, even if it was optional (not mandatory) you couldn't just show up with the device on your car as the on track system is in place to aid runs from the 1000' distance. The current location may be too close to the 1/4 mile finish line for and have to be relocated. I don't know but just thinking of changes that might be necessary. What would be the proper distance past the 1/4 mile finish line to position the signal? At what distance into the shutdown are you passed the point of "no return" so to speak.

I think if the receiver is made mandatory in alcohol, you'll see alcohol cars moved to the 1000' distance at the same time. Then naturally you have to race to 1000' at Divisional events also. All good, but lots to be considered.

Maybe they could operate on a different frequency Jim.

 

[Jim]

I think if the receiver is made mandatory in alcohol, you'll see alcohol cars moved to the 1000' distance at the same time. Then naturally you have to race to 1000' at Divisional events also. All good, but lots to be considered.

They'd have to move to 1,000 feet at divisional events. They can't say that 1,320 feet is unsafe for alcohol at national events but is safe for the same cars at the same tracks for divisional events.

Jim

 

[Toejam]

When did you guys last go to a driver's funeral?

James your missing the point, everyone wants to eliminate all risks from the sport in the hope that nobody "Might" get hurt! That's STUPID!!!

The race track had absolutely NOTHING to do with Neil Parker's crash! Yet everyone's on the Panic bandwagon to make sure that no racer puts himself in danger again! Again...That's just STUPID!!!!!

 

[Rexfiles]

James your missing the point, everyone wants to eliminate all risks from the sport in the hope that nobody "Might" get hurt! That's STUPID!!!

The race track had absolutely NOTHING to do with Neil Parker's crash! Yet everyone's on the Panic bandwagon to make sure that no racer puts himself in danger again! Again...That's just STUPID!!!!!

No. "Stupid" is thinking a track which is actually the shortest on the tour...had no influence on Neal Parkers crash.

He died........from hitting the concrete.

Why..........no safer barriers?

NASCAR has had no fatalities on the cup tour since Earnhardts crash.

Why?

They became proactive.

We all know E-Town is on the tour because of the lucrative Northeast market.

Yes, it has heritage, and yes.......it is a beautiful facility.......

But the trap is just that.

A driver should be SAVED there, not DIE there.

E-Town simply cannot make the track longer.

Impossible.

But there have been TWO fatalities there in the last two years.

High speed impact into concrete.

There is a factor everyone leaves out.

At speed.

An experienced veteran driver looks for options.

One or two seconds can help their awareness of their situation.

Help them decide to scrub off speed before entering the trap.

Quite simply, a short shutdown, and a very short trap, affords neither.

Kalitta and Parker were the best,

Possibly another second or two or three may have saved their lives.

And I KNOW one thing.

As they entered the trap, neither expected to die there, they figured they would be safely stopped.

Maybe a bump or bruise.

I cannot convey what 200 mph is, and how fast the car covers ground.

Immediate action is required, and that takes time.

Seconds. Drive to the wall, scrub off speed, anything.

I am sure Neil Parker trusted the improvements at E-Town.

What happened is slightly short of a crime.

REX

 

[M Jones]

I know it has been said before, but if an aircraft carrier can stop a 2,000 plus lb jet with little to no damage to plane or pilot with nets (not cables), I know to expensive to install at all tracks, or what if the NHRA had a foundation placed at each track and brought the same set up to the each track with the safety safari, they would only have to purchase one set up for all the tracks. Are our drivers worth that much, money can't replace life but it sure can increases the odds of survival if spent wisely

 

[G'ginna]

This may be a really dumb question (I don't mind comments, but biting isn't necessary.) I don't recall seeing an aerial or layout for E-Town... I know it would be a major re-vamp (and serious money, time, etc.) but would it be easier to make it safer if the staging started where the sand ends? Basically reverse the direction of the entire facility?

 

[Jim]

No. "Stupid" is thinking a track which is actually the shortest on the tour...had no influence on Neal Parkers crash.

You do not know whether the track was an influence or not.

He died........from hitting the concrete.

You do not know that unless you are a coroner and did an autopsy.

Help them decide to scrub off speed before entering the trap.

Many of us who were there and watched the run did not see Parker make any attempt to slow the car.

Jim

 

[JB3]

They'd have to move to 1,000 feet at divisional events. They can't say that 1,320 feet is unsafe for alcohol at national events but is safe for the same cars at the same tracks for divisional events.

Jim

Geez Jim ... you made me second guess myself. Thought I said that.

Originally Posted by Jim Bowen I think if the receiver is made mandatory in alcohol, you'll see alcohol cars moved to the 1000' distance at the same time. Then naturally you have to race to 1000' at Divisional events also. All good, but lots to be considered.

 

[Jim]

Geez Jim ... you made me second guess myself. Thought I said that.

I was agreeing with you, Jim, and pointing out the reason why. But in addition, there is also no way that anyone could say that racing alcohol cars to 1,320 feet is not safe at national event tracks, but is safe at tracks that host divisionals but not national events.

The point we are both making is that if anyone made the decision to move alcohol to 1,000 feet at national events, it would have to be the same at all events.

Jim

 

[Gordon]

I've been pseudo following this thread since it was started and I have a few comments now that I've had time to digest the incident along with the thoughts conveyed herein.

I was watching from approximately the 800' mark on the nitro pit side, halfway up the grandstands when this accident occurred. I, like most, felt the safety improvements were going to protect Neal when it was obvious he wasn't going to stop before the trap, but about three to five minutes later when Alan Reinhart kept telling us he had nothing to pass along, I knew there was trouble. After fifteen minutes, I feared the worst. My wife and I were very saddened by what we believed had happened, but REFUSED to speculate even though we watched the entire thing unfold.

Within minutes it seemed everyone I spoke with had a theory about what happened and why. There were also countless comments about Neal's condition, everything from "He's fine, I saw him walking around at the top end," to "He's gone," and everything in between. I knew that regardless of Neal's condition, severely injured, or worse, what had happened was a tragedy and, coincidence or not, Englishtown was likely going to come under heavy scrutiny... as it should.

I grew up going to that race track and I've always loved it there. The Napp's have done everything within their power to make it the nicest, safest drag strip they can. They cannot help the fact that there's a road just past where the shutdown area is. It's a cryin' shame they've been dealt such a horrible set of circumstances these past few years. Is it time for NHRA to say they can't continue attending races there due to safety concerns? I don't know, it's not my responsibility.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, I've been re-living the old days lately and I can't help but think what nitromater.com would've looked like back in the 80's. Bob Glidden's violent crash at Atlanta. Eddie Hill's Flyover in Pomona (Can't really call it a blow over, can we?). RC Sherman's crash in Baton Rouge. Tim Grose in Ohio... I could go on and on. Yes, in most cases changes were made to improve safety following those crashes (and many more I haven't mentioned), but the point is the driver's all walked away from them BEFORE the changes were made. I could also cover explosions - Mark Oswald in Dallas (or Houston?). Mike Dunn at Englishtown (I think)? VIOLENT!!! As has been stated hundreds of thousands of times before - this is an unsafe sport, no matter where you do it, no matter the length of the track/shutdown area, no matter the fuel volume, no matter if you're going to 1,000 feet or 1,320 feet.

My feelings are this... I feel a deep sadness for the loss of Neal Parker, but I don't have any idea what caused his death so I REFUSE to speculate. I've learned from talking to people who are IN THE KNOW in this sport that most of us are NOT IN THE KNOW nearly as much as we think we are. Regardless of how he died, I hope he's resting comfortably in God's loving peace and his family finds comfort in knowing they're in my thoughts and prayers always.

One lesson I've learned in my short time on this earth is that change for the sake of change is a waste of everyone's time and usually results in a very false sense of security. If not racing at Englishtown Raceway Park is the answer, then that's what it is... but I wonder what or who we'll blame the next time tragedy strikes.

Rest in peace, Neal & may God bless your family, friends & crew.

 

[JB3]

I've been pseudo following this thread since it was started and I have a few comments now that I've had time to digest the incident along with the thoughts conveyed herein.

I was watching from approximately the 800' mark on the nitro pit side, halfway up the grandstands when this accident occurred. I, like most, felt the safety improvements were going to protect Neal when it was obvious he wasn't going to stop before the trap, but about three to five minutes later when Alan Reinhart kept telling us he had nothing to pass along, I knew there was trouble. After fifteen minutes, I feared the worst. My wife and I were very saddened by what we believed had happened, but REFUSED to speculate even though we watched the entire thing unfold.

Within minutes it seemed everyone I spoke with had a theory about what happened and why. There were also countless comments about Neal's condition, everything from "He's fine, I saw him walking around at the top end," to "He's gone," and everything in between. I knew that regardless of Neal's condition, severely injured, or worse, what had happened was a tragedy and, coincidence or not, Englishtown was likely going to come under heavy scrutiny... as it should.

I grew up going to that race track and I've always loved it there. The Napp's have done everything within their power to make it the nicest, safest drag strip they can. They cannot help the fact that there's a road just past where the shutdown area is. It's a cryin' shame they've been dealt such a horrible set of circumstances these past few years. Is it time for NHRA to say they can't continue attending races there due to safety concerns? I don't know, it's not my responsibility.

Lastly, and maybe most importantly, I've been re-living the old days lately and I can't help but think what nitromater.com would've looked like back in the 80's. Bob Glidden's violent crash at Atlanta. Eddie Hill's Flyover in Pomona (Can't really call it a blow over, can we?). RC Sherman's crash in Baton Rouge. Tim Grose in Ohio... I could go on and on. Yes, in most cases changes were made to improve safety following those crashes (and many more I haven't mentioned), but the point is the driver's all walked away from them BEFORE the changes were made. I could also cover explosions - Mark Oswald in Dallas (or Houston?). Mike Dunn at Englishtown (I think)? VIOLENT!!! As has been stated hundreds of thousands of times before - this is an unsafe sport, no matter where you do it, no matter the length of the track/shutdown area, no matter the fuel volume, no matter if you're going to 1,000 feet or 1,320 feet.

My feelings are this... I feel a deep sadness for the loss of Neal Parker, but I don't have any idea what caused his death so I REFUSE to speculate. I've learned from talking to people who are IN THE KNOW in this sport that most of us are NOT IN THE KNOW nearly as much as we think we are. Regardless of how he died, I hope he's resting comfortably in God's loving peace and his family finds comfort in knowing they're in my thoughts and prayers always.

One lesson I've learned in my short time on this earth is that change for the sake of change is a waste of everyone's time and usually results in a very false sense of security. If not racing at Englishtown Raceway Park is the answer, then that's what it is... but I wonder what or who we'll blame the next time tragedy strikes.

Rest in peace, Neal & may God bless your family, friends & crew.

WOW !! Gordon, that is just an incredible post. Well said.

 

[Kelly]

This may be a really dumb question (I don't mind comments, but biting isn't necessary.) I don't recall seeing an aerial or layout for E-Town... I know it would be a major re-vamp (and serious money, time, etc.) but would it be easier to make it safer if the staging started where the sand ends? Basically reverse the direction of the entire facility?

Let's see how this works....

Old Bridge Township Raceway Park Inc, Englishtown, NJ - Google Maps

 

[Old Guy Rookie]

I'm not a mathematician; but, wouldn't it be possible to take the mass of a vehicle and its speed (or projected speed,) over a given distance, plugging in different factors such as the distance required to safely stop normal working car at that speed, one with no chute but with brakes, etc., and begin to determine whether or not a track may meet a certain criteria? Right now it just sounds like NHRA wants to slow down the cars to meet the specs of the track, which sounds backward to me. Kind of like chopping off toes so a foot fits into a minimum standard sized shoe.

I understand additional length of the track probably wouldn't have helped in this case; however, I don't think you want to just meet the minimum requirements for safety either.

 

[JB3]

This may be a really dumb question (I don't mind comments, but biting isn't necessary.) I don't recall seeing an aerial or layout for E-Town... I know it would be a major re-vamp (and serious money, time, etc.) but would it be easier to make it safer if the staging started where the sand ends? Basically reverse the direction of the entire facility?

There is a BIG problem faced by Raceway Park that would present a huge roadblock to this happening at all (at least without a huge, lengthy, and costly fight). If it was as simple as buying up land and/or a major reconstruction of the property, it would have been done already. Simply put, E-Town's very nearby neighbors HATE them. This population is growing and encroaching the facility rapidly and they have a lot of financial horsepower. These are not poor people. Attempting to get permits and approvals to cut down a single tree let alone any project of this type would likely be shot down in any referrendum or at least take years and buckets of $$ to finalize. This venue is popular in our circles ... but not with the locals.

 

[Toejam]

No. "Stupid" is thinking a track which is actually the shortest on the tour...had no influence on Neal Parkers crash.

He died........from hitting the concrete.

Why..........no safer barriers?

NASCAR has had no fatalities on the cup tour since Earnhardts crash.

Why?

They became proactive.

We all know E-Town is on the tour because of the lucrative Northeast market.

Yes, it has heritage, and yes.......it is a beautiful facility.......

But the trap is just that.

A driver should be SAVED there, not DIE there.

E-Town simply cannot make the track longer.

Impossible.

But there have been TWO fatalities there in the last two years.

High speed impact into concrete.

There is a factor everyone leaves out.

At speed.

An experienced veteran driver looks for options.

One or two seconds can help their awareness of their situation.

Help them decide to scrub off speed before entering the trap.

Quite simply, a short shutdown, and a very short trap, affords neither.

Kalitta and Parker were the best,

Possibly another second or two or three may have saved their lives.

And I KNOW one thing.

As they entered the trap, neither expected to die there, they figured they would be safely stopped.

Maybe a bump or bruise.

I cannot convey what 200 mph is, and how fast the car covers ground.

Immediate action is required, and that takes time.

Seconds. Drive to the wall, scrub off speed, anything.

I am sure Neil Parker trusted the improvements at E-Town.

What happened is slightly short of a crime.

REX

Well Rex I guess you agree with me then...any track that can't handle 250+ MPH cars without chutes should be banned! Finally we agree on something!