Improving NHRA Safety... (1 Viewer)

[mick]

2001 earnhardt in winston cup nascar - unprotected barrier (head trauma)
1994 senna in F1 - unprotected barrier (flying parts causing head trauma)
'96, '03 - irl/cart - practice or testing - unprotected barrier and catch fencing (trauma)

nhra drag racing can not be two things at once.
either improve run-out length to greatly diminish chances of
high speed impact and continue in pursuit of uninterrupted quest for greater speeds and e.t.'s...........
or detune the performance and continue with status quo facilities.

i agree with those that think some of the current facilities pose a greater
risk of a bad accident than do other facilities with longer run-outs.

i even think 'safer-barriers' could be used along entire strip - plenty of
high-impact accidents along racetrack as well.....some fatal.

 

[Bob]

Well Rex I guess you agree with me then...any track that can't handle 250+ MPH cars without chutes should be banned! Finally we agree on something!

No one in their right mind would agree with Rex.

Larry Dixon at Englishtown 2 years ago made a great pass at 300+, his chutes weren't deployed, and he was able to take the last turn-off without as much as a skidmark.

Hmmmm.

 

[twostep]

Larry Dixon at Englishtown 2 years ago made a great pass at 300+, his chutes weren't deployed, and he was able to take the last turn-off without as much as a skidmark.

Yes, and most likely so would anyone else who was conscious, alert and applying a working set of brakes. Kalitta, Parker and DeJoria all hit the gravel with no brakes OR chutes, for 3 different reasons but with devastating results. No, I'm not speculating on what happened to Neal. Humpteen witnesses reported there was no evidence of brake or chute application. We'll find out why sometime down the road.

We know about Scott and as for DeJoria, she flat had the Lord riding shotgun in that car. That was a HARD impact. Nothstien had no chutes, but had brakes and his impact was much less severe. Look. If your 250+ car has no chutes and no brakes, either, you in a heap o' trouble, bro....on ANY track. I say give Englishtown, and these other tracks lots of people want to mothball or limit to >200MPH racing, the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

[Toejam]

Larry Dixon at Englishtown 2 years ago made a great pass at 300+, his chutes weren't deployed, and he was able to take the last turn-off without as much as a skidmark.
Hmmmm.

Another one who's NOT blaming the Track, this is a Conspiracy!!!!

 

[mick]

accident at phoenix lets a run-a-way car run off the track into desert.

same accident at englishtown and similar shorter tracks confront the same
run-a-way car with a series of stationary objects, progressively becoming more permanent; last object a concrete wall.

difference between two tales?...........the track.

shutdown area should/is designed for worst possible scenario.

does not matter how many individuals stopped their car with only their brakes and made turn off safely

does not matter how many racers and officials state that 'so and so' facility
is safe to race on.

what matters is what happens when last weekend's scenario unfolds.

 

[Bob]

accident at phoenix lets a run-a-way car run off the track into desert.

same accident at englishtown and similar shorter tracks confront the same
run-a-way car with a series of stationary objects, progressively becoming more permanent; last object a concrete wall.

difference between two tales?...........the track.

shutdown area should/is designed for worst possible scenario.

does not matter how many individuals stopped their car with only their brakes and made turn off safely

does not matter how many racers and officials state that 'so and so' facility
is safe to race on.

what matters is what happens when last weekend's scenario unfolds.

Better move ALL racing to the salt flats.

 

[Gordon]

accident at phoenix lets a run-a-way car run off the track into desert.

same accident at englishtown and similar shorter tracks confront the same
run-a-way car with a series of stationary objects, progressively becoming more permanent; last object a concrete wall.

difference between two tales?...........the track.

shutdown area should/is designed for worst possible scenario.

does not matter how many individuals stopped their car with only their brakes and made turn off safely

does not matter how many racers and officials state that 'so and so' facility
is safe to race on.

what matters is what happens when last weekend's scenario unfolds.

Mike,

I understand your point, but I submit that merely increasing the length of all shutdown areas is not a solution. Yes, the scenario you describe definitely shows a high degree of danger for an out of control race car (no brakes, no chutes, etc.), but what happens if your scenario includes an incapacitated driver similar to Don Gay, Jr. in Denver back in '89 or Johnny West at Englishtown? Both drivers survived - yes, even Johnny West at Englishtown... but incapacitation is incapacitation no matter the length of the shutdown area. It's quite possible, however improbable, that a race car could run into the desert with an incapacitated driver and get killed by a cactus tree. Then what?

I once read a safety report about a naval aviator who ejected from his aircraft and became knocked out by the rush of air that struck him as he left the aircraft. The chute performed flawlessly and an open canopy delivered the unconscious aviator to the earth as designed... where the aviator's helmetless head (ripped off during ejection) struck the only rock within 100 feet of the landing area and killed him.

As I said in my original post, I have no earthly idea what happened to Neal Parks, but I do know that thousands of 250 m.p.h.+ race cars have stopped safely at Englishtown, with and without parachutes. To lay blame at the feet of the track before we have all, or any of the facts seems premature, unfair and unnecessary.

It is my strong belief that a knee-jerk reaction to this tragedy will not prevent more from happening, it'll merely give us a false sense of security in an otherwise dangerous sport.

 

[Speedy_Sticks]

Perhaps we should have a three deaths then the track is outta here? One more for Englishtown then.

Please give me a motorsport that has a worse safety record than NHRA?

Anybody remember Massa's accident in F1 when he gotknocked out? That track design took into account of what would happen if a F1 car couldn't have slowed down after aong straight.

Gay's accident was when he hit the wall just before halftrack and if I recall his car slowed by a combination of his car rubbing against the rail slowing it and the car going up the gradient at Denver almost slowing the car to a halt.

West's accident was at the start of the run when frills under the tyres and sent him into the wall, although going the the traps at just over 100mph, when he got to the end of the trap, (can't recall if he even went into a sandtrap), the car hit a silver crash barrier and sent it swinging to the left, I think it hit the right side of the barrier going into the end bit and the car just simply followed the crash barrier around?
Ie it didn't hit it straight on. At the time it wasn't concrete.

Am I wrong?

What type of sand do Englishman use?

 

[mick]

gordon,

i'm with ya'.
i don't know.......just trying to think this thru, probably incorrectly.
the loss of life is just terrible.

 

[Toejam]

accident at phoenix lets a run-a-way car run off the track into desert.

same accident at englishtown and similar shorter tracks confront the same
run-a-way car with a series of stationary objects, progressively becoming more permanent; last object a concrete wall.

difference between two tales?...........the track.

shutdown area should/is designed for worst possible scenario.

does not matter how many individuals stopped their car with only their brakes and made turn off safely

does not matter how many racers and officials state that 'so and so' facility
is safe to race on.

what matters is what happens when last weekend's scenario unfolds.

Then you may as well ban the sport as a whole! If eliminating any possibility that a driver "might" get Killed?? Impossible! May as well bring in the lawyers and sue the sport out of existance!

 

[Jim]

Please give me a motorsport that has a worse safety record than NHRA?

You'd have to make the comparison as a percentage of participants. I think more people participate in drag racing than any other form of motorsports, so you'd have to take that into account.

Jim

 

[Gordon]

gordon,

i'm with ya'.
i don't know.......just trying to think this thru, probably incorrectly.
the loss of life is just terrible.

I could not agree with you more if I tried, believe me, I just don't want our great sport modified simply for the sake of modification.

 

[G'ginna]

There is a BIG problem faced by Raceway Park that would present a huge roadblock to this happening at all (at least without a huge, lengthy, and costly fight). If it was as simple as buying up land and/or a major reconstruction of the property, it would have been done already. Simply put, E-Town's very nearby neighbors HATE them. This population is growing and encroaching the facility rapidly and they have a lot of financial horsepower. These are not poor people. Attempting to get permits and approvals to cut down a single tree let alone any project of this type would likely be shot down in any referrendum or at least take years and buckets of $$ to finalize. This venue is popular in our circles ... but not with the locals.

Thank you for answering me. That's a similar situation faced by more than this track, cities expand and expect long time farmers and ranchers or just rural people to take notice of their sensitive noses and ears and force family farms, dairies and stables to shut down, relocate or sell out. Many times it's a no win situation which bites. I hope this accident doesn't cause more problems in this regard. It's one thing to make changes for safety's sake and another to be forced out by the thoughtless.

 

[Sean D, shondoo]

You'd have to make the comparison as a percentage of participants. I think more people participate in drag racing than any other form of motorsports, so you'd have to take that into account.

Jim

Absolutely, Jim. There is simply no comparison when you look at the millions of passes made down thousands of drag strips, including Englishtown, over the years. It ain't even close.

I guess I'm just going to have to get comfortable with all the knee-jerkers on this board, some of which are the same ones that complain about the sanctioning body's knee jerk reactions to things. I was an unfortunate participant at a race years ago where we lost a fellow competitor. The race was at Gateway, which has more than adequate shut-down, and we lost him while he was competing in Super Gas..............................Super Gas!

When we lost Scott, it was "300Mph is too fast in 1320-feet at Englishtown". Now we lose Neal at 250 - 260 and all of the sudden this track isn't safe at a speed they've been running at Englishtown since nearly the dawn of time. Dixon and Fuller have stopped without chutes at well over 300Mph in 1320-feet, so you're going to have to come up with a better argument than the fact that they've had two very unfortunate incidents very close together that could've literally ended with the same results at any number of the shorter facilities on tour.

The racers obviously don't have a problem with competing there because they keep coming back. Ya' think that may be because they get the fact that as long as everything works, Englishtown is as safe as pretty much anywhere else, while also understanding that on the flipside there is no track long enough in the event of severe mechanical failure or other extenuating circumstances like I described earlier about the Super Gas racer?

I think it's really unfortunate that some people seem to have no reservations about compromising the integrity of what the Napp family has done at that facility for so long out there and drag racing as a whole. They made the improvements mandated by the NHRA and it's absolutely irresponsible for anyone to call for their heads and the head of their facility by taking away their National Event. When the drivers stop showing up, then I might hear ya'. Until then...................

Sean D

 

[mick]

Then you may as well ban the sport as a whole! If eliminating any possibility that a driver "might" get Killed?? Impossible! May as well bring in the lawyers and sue the sport out of existance!

joe, thanks for the constructive criticism.......keep it coming.....
and your eye candy pics as well.

IMO there is not a bad comment that can be made that arrises from the
tragic loss of someone's life.
take it heart, take it with a grain of salt, call it knee-jerk,
call it late for supper, call it whatever you want.
in this wonderful age of technology (web forums), if fatalities in recent
years on the drag strip have spawned 1000+ related threads and posts;
if there is one single comment made that
somehow rings a bell and leads to an advancement of the sport, then
it's all worth it.

 

[yoda]

Ironically, this took place in New Jersey...

Private Jet Overshoots Runway

Before anyone jumps on me about it- yes, I did see the cost of it. Could it work for a 2200 pound race car? Don't know- don't specialize in this field of engineering.. Is it worth looking at to see if it's an alternative? Well, yeah- isn't anything that has been proven to work worth investigating?

 

[FC138fan]

Ironically, this took place in New Jersey...

Private Jet Overshoots Runway

Before anyone jumps on me about it- yes, I did see the cost of it. Could it work for a 2200 pound race car? Don't know- don't specialize in this field of engineering.. Is it worth looking at to see if it's an alternative? Well, yeah- isn't anything that has been proven to work worth investigating?

I think it gets poured like concrete, so it has to cure like concrete. Unless you pre-fabricate it. Tough to make the stuff stop a lightweight dragster and a stock dodge say. I did think about this though, Ive seen it on modern marvels. That news story if the first time I've seen it work and make the news.

 

[Crew Chief Pro]

I say Ban Golf. Far more people are injured and killed by golf balls each year than drag racing.

Then we can take the land the golf courses used to be on and make nice long dragstrips.


Anything worth doing is dangerous. Anything fun can get you killed. Stop trying to tell us how much danger is too much danger, especially if you sit in the stands.

You can't fix danger, it bites you when it wants. We accept the level of risk and presume we will die racing, otherwise we wouldn't strap on the helmet.

 

[JF]

Ironically, this took place in New Jersey...

Private Jet Overshoots Runway

Before anyone jumps on me about it- yes, I did see the cost of it. Could it work for a 2200 pound race car? Don't know- don't specialize in this field of engineering.. Is it worth looking at to see if it's an alternative? Well, yeah- isn't anything that has been proven to work worth investigating?

Great Idea! but how long will it take to repair it for another plane?

 

[yoda]

Great Idea! but how long will it take to repair it for another plane?

Good question... Anyone know about this technology that can chime in?