I'm sure glad . . . (1 Viewer)

[Baron]

I'm sure glad that the NHRA has truncated the racetrack for the nitro classes. Had they not done so, cars would still be blowing up, there'd be oildowns, and funny car bodies would be airborne.
I'm sure glad that the NHRA stepped up with a nice presentation for Bob Frey and Paul Page on their last TV broadcast. It was great to see such a classy sendoff for two real gentlemen.
I'm sure glad . . . . Oh, wait a minute.

 

[Toejam]

Can you repeat that in English please?

 

[handsome]

i'm sure glad people can enjoy the racing that we are lucky enough to see on tv without crying all the time ..... OH WAIT....

 

[mike]

i'm sure glad people can enjoy the racing that we are lucky enough to see on tv without crying all the time ..... OH WAIT....

This.

 

[Jeff]

I'm with Bruce on this one ... nobody is forcing you to watch it, and I hear the ADRL is for sale, buy that and fix everything to the way you want it.

Yeah, yeah, I know the NHRA is a tax exempt. That is a choice of the organizers, not the beneficiaries.

I like 1/4 mile racing better, but at current speeds having every track 320 feet longer is a reasonable improvement in safety from my perspective.

I'm not saying "nobody complain" I'm just saying that you are choosing to compare apples to oranges for a good portion of your argument.

TV personalities rarely get much of a send off. I'm still praying that Bob will take a year off, and his family will beg him to go back out on a part time basis. With his brain, I just don't see how he is going to redirect all of that energy without driving his family crazy. I hope he has some really good hobbies .... sitting in for a 6 or 10 races a year would be a great hobby!

 

[Dave]

With his brain, I just don't see how he is going to redirect all of that energy without driving his family crazy.

Hopefully he will write a book with some inside stories and insight.

 

[TooTall999]

With his brain, I just don't see how he is going to redirect all of that energy without driving his family crazy.

Hopefully he will write a book with some inside stories and insight.

Yeah but he'd still get the names wrong...

 

[Baron]

I'm with Bruce on this one ... nobody is forcing you to watch it, and I hear the ADRL is for sale, buy that and fix everything to the way you want it.

Yeah, yeah, I know the NHRA is a tax exempt. That is a choice of the organizers, not the beneficiaries.

I like 1/4 mile racing better, but at current speeds having every track 320 feet longer is a reasonable improvement in safety from my perspective.

I'm not saying "nobody complain" I'm just saying that you are choosing to compare apples to oranges for a good portion of your argument.

TV personalities rarely get much of a send off. I'm still praying that Bob will take a year off, and his family will beg him to go back out on a part time basis. With his brain, I just don't see how he is going to redirect all of that energy without driving his family crazy. I hope he has some really good hobbies .... sitting in for a 6 or 10 races a year would be a great hobby!

Jeff,
I agree with you on Bob Frey doing some guest shots. That would be great.
As to the shortened track issue: NHRA told us that it was temporary and that they would take measures to reduce the performance of the nitro cars in order to allow them to race safely in a return to the quarter mile. We have also been told that the 1000' racing would prevent oildowns and engine explosions. None of that was or is true. How many funny car bodies have been launched skyward or otherwise destroyed this year from engine explosions? It appears that the crew chiefs have gone from blowing 'em up at 1320 to blowing 'em up at 1000.
I much prefer quarter mile racing, especially for what are billed as the headliners - the premier classes.
Ed

 

[Gordon]

As to the shortened track issue: NHRA told us that it was temporary and that they would take measures to reduce the performance of the nitro cars in order to allow them to race safely in a return to the quarter mile. We have also been told that the 1000' racing would prevent oildowns and engine explosions. None of that was or is true. How many funny car bodies have been launched skyward or otherwise destroyed this year from engine explosions? It appears that the crew chiefs have gone from blowing 'em up at 1320 to blowing 'em up at 1000.
I much prefer quarter mile racing, especially for what are billed as the headliners - the premier classes.

A lot of folks, both fans & spectators as well as racers and crew chiefs themselves stated rather succinctly that it wouldn't take very long for the crew chiefs to "shorten the wick" and begin hurting parts at or prior to 1,000'. Nobody should be surprised that we're seeing that today - If you are, you either weren't around when they decided to go 1,000' racing or you weren't paying attention.

Furthermore, the majority of teams that are blowing things up are using second hard parts because it's what they can afford - Not all, mind you, but most. (Beckman at the World Finals comes immediately to mind, but look at Lesenko, Diehl, etc.) Anyway, the low budget teams are forced to push the performance envelope using equipment that the high dollar teams weren't willing to push with just to run hard enough to get in the show and be mildly competitive. Again, we shouldn't be surprised when nitro motors with second hand parts go boom!

Lastly, you suggest decreasing performance and in the same breath refer to them as the "premier classes." NHRA is in a very tough spot and I don't envy them. First of all, if they force lesser performance on the fuel cars they create a huge expense for everyone because a lot of the equipment they're currently using will be obsolete. Then, who do they sell it too? It's useless - nobody will buy it. Also, where do the aforementioned low-budget teams buy their second hand stuff - there won't be any, at least initially. And then there's the TAD/TAFC dilemma - Are you going to decrease performance in the TAD & TAFC classes too? Assuming decreased performance in the fuel cars, it's not a stretch to think that at some point TAD/TAFC may be almost as quick and fast as the "premier classes" and we definitely don't want that, do we? And to suggest decreasing their performance too would be ridiculous (see cost effect above).

Look, when you're using CH3NO2 as your fuel source, things are sometimes going to go BOOM, whether you're using new stuff or old - it's a fact of NHRA racing.

 

[Baron]

A lot of folks, both fans & spectators as well as racers and crew chiefs themselves stated rather succinctly that it wouldn't take very long for the crew chiefs to "shorten the wick" and begin hurting parts at or prior to 1,000'. Nobody should be surprised that we're seeing that today - If you are, you either weren't around when they decided to go 1,000' racing or you weren't paying attention.

Furthermore, the majority of teams that are blowing things up are using second hard parts because it's what they can afford - Not all, mind you, but most. (Beckman at the World Finals comes immediately to mind, but look at Lesenko, Diehl, etc.) Anyway, the low budget teams are forced to push the performance envelope using equipment that the high dollar teams weren't willing to push with just to run hard enough to get in the show and be mildly competitive. Again, we shouldn't be surprised when nitro motors with second hand parts go boom!

Lastly, you suggest decreasing performance and in the same breath refer to them as the "premier classes." NHRA is in a very tough spot and I don't envy them. First of all, if they force lesser performance on the fuel cars they create a huge expense for everyone because a lot of the equipment they're currently using will be obsolete. Then, who do they sell it too? It's useless - nobody will buy it. Also, where do the aforementioned low-budget teams buy their second hand stuff - there won't be any, at least initially. And then there's the TAD/TAFC dilemma - Are you going to decrease performance in the TAD & TAFC classes too? Assuming decreased performance in the fuel cars, it's not a stretch to think that at some point TAD/TAFC may be almost as quick and fast as the "premier classes" and we definitely don't want that, do we? And to suggest decreasing their performance too would be ridiculous (see cost effect above).

Look, when you're using CH3NO2 as your fuel source, things are sometimes going to go BOOM, whether you're using new stuff or old - it's a fact of NHRA racing.

Well, "Flaps", read the motto below your signature and act on it.
Nothing, not a word of what you wrote, addresses the criticism I initiated.
If you are willing to accept 1000' racing, I'm happy for you. It is manifestly the case that the NHRA's argument that it would reduce engine explosions was false. That we knew it was false changes nothing.
Management at the NHRA has a responsibility to manage. I asserted that they have not managed the promised return to 1320' racing well.
Ed

 

[Dave]

I believe it has been stated that almost every component on the car aside from the chassis has a VERY short lifespan. Tires making 2-4 runs, pistons, blowers, etc last anywhere from 1 pass to 1 race. If you author in the rules changes to start at the start of the season, the teams next parts purchase is the new stuff instead of the old style stuff. Where does the old stuff go? Well there are plenty of nitro racers in Australia and Europe that would love to buy it as they still run the current configuration. Sell all the current blocks, heads, rear end gears, whatever you need to liquidate out that way. What do you do with TAD/TAFC? Nothing. They seem to have been capped in the 5.20s-5.40s real easy with rules regulations. Keep them there and bring the nitro cars down to 4.80s again and let them start there. It's no different then when speeds were escalating at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. They'd dial back the boost when they'd hit 215, then in a few years they'd be back up to where they left off, then they hit 220-225, dial them back again, then they made it to 230. You can ALWAYS stunt the progression of speed. There are always limiting factors. Change the rear gear and get rid of the rev limiter. Change the size of the engine blocks, regulate fuel pumps, regulate clutch management. It can be done. Personally i'd rather see a 4.20 quarter mile time at 350mph. Unfortunately it won't happen because someone won't build a car, racetrack, or tire safe enough for it. If you notice some of the "bombs" that have been going off in top fuel and funny car, they're all happening well before the 1,000 foot mark. I think Lesenko's Indy boomer was around half track. It's ALWAYS going to happen no matter if we only race to 60 feet. Doug Herbert blew parts over the stands at Pomona and he never left the starting line.

 

[Gordon]

Well, "Flaps", read the motto below your signature and act on it.
Nothing, not a word of what you wrote, addresses the criticism I initiated.
If you are willing to accept 1000' racing, I'm happy for you. It is manifestly the case that the NHRA's argument that it would reduce engine explosions was false. That we knew it was false changes nothing.
Management at the NHRA has a responsibility to manage. I asserted that they have not managed the promised return to 1320' racing well.
Ed

I do act on it... to the extent that I'm able. Every time I tune in to watch a broadcast; every time I pay money to go to an event; every time I purchase items - whether in support of NHRA or one of the teams or a product sold by one of the many sponsors, I'm acting on it by showing my support for the show the NHRA puts on. When they stop producing a product that interests me, I'll stop doing those things. I'm not a manager at NHRA & I don't own a race car - I'm just a middle income enlisted guy who basically lives payday to payday... and I'm okay with that.

I was merely discussing the points you used as support for your feelings about returning to 1,320 racing with counterpoints of my own - I thought that was what this forum was for. You want them back at 1,320 - me personally, I don't care because I still enjoy the show immensely. Meaning: For me, there is no problem to solve.

My point, reiterated a little differently perhaps, is this: De-tune 'em, decrease performance by controlling fuel flow, clutch application, rear end gearing, or what have you - it won't matter in the long run because the crew chiefs will still eventually blow 'em up again.

Me personally, I'm all for less regulation... a LOT less regulation, but that conversation probably belongs in the politics forum.

 

[d'kid]

Or, we could do what Wally said several times in '73-'74... 'I wish we decided on an eighth instead of a quarter'. His biggest issue then, trap speeds (230-240) in AA/FD & 220 mph floppers...

d'kid

 

[Nunz]

Dave that was a great post! With the parts and pieces available today, even Garlits says that if you dial these cars back to high 4's at 300ish they would live a long time. Of course, it will always be a work in progress, just as you stated, the other race series' have managed to ratchet things back every several years. Drag Racing has had the most unique vehicles on the planet for more than a half-century, I would think it shouldn't be that hard to re-invent itself with an eye toward the future. Here's another problem: Even through the horrible economic climate, and with limited numbers of new major sponsors coming in, the Pro fields have actually been stable, and in many cases, the fuel classes have had real strong numbers. Many privateers running limited schedules, to compliment the big teams. Unless we had consistent, real short fields, the NHRA is probably going to leave well enough alone. They just don't seem to have a vision for the future, IMO they tend to be reactive, vs. proactive.

 

[TooTall999]

What if we're going about this all wrong? Find a way to make the cars self limiting. Instead of gluing the crap out of the racetrack surface limit the amount of track prep. If the tires don't stick as well the crew chiefs have to back down the tune up. It would change the game from who can make the most horsepower to who can apply a limited amount of horsepower to a less grippy track. Looking back at some of the match race greats, the successful ones were the ones who could make the most out of questionable track surfaces.

 

[mike]

What if we're going about this all wrong? Find a way to make the cars self limiting. Instead of gluing the crap out of the racetrack surface limit the amount of track prep. If the tires don't stick as well the crew chiefs have to back down the tune up. It would change the game from who can make the most horsepower to who can apply a limited amount of horsepower to a less grippy track. Looking back at some of the match race greats, the successful ones were the ones who could make the most out of questionable track surfaces.

if there was a "like" button here I'd be clicking it now...

 

[StockersRock]

What if we're going about this all wrong? Find a way to make the cars self limiting. Instead of gluing the crap out of the racetrack surface limit the amount of track prep. If the tires don't stick as well the crew chiefs have to back down the tune up. It would change the game from who can make the most horsepower to who can apply a limited amount of horsepower to a less grippy track. Looking back at some of the match race greats, the successful ones were the ones who could make the most out of questionable track surfaces.

Agreed. Been thinking this for a long time.

 

[Nick Name]

if there was a "like" button here I'd be clicking it now...

Different deal. Match racing is a show. No sponsor breathing down your neck demanding you win every round.

 

[StockersRock]

I believe he's referring to match racing back in the day, when it was as, or more, important than running national events.

 

[Bubba]

What if we're going about this all wrong? Find a way to make the cars self limiting. Instead of gluing the crap out of the racetrack surface limit the amount of track prep. If the tires don't stick as well the crew chiefs have to back down the tune up. It would change the game from who can make the most horsepower to who can apply a limited amount of horsepower to a less grippy track. Looking back at some of the match race greats, the successful ones were the ones who could make the most out of questionable track surfaces.

That would work if the nitro classes were the only cars going down the track. Slower classes don't have the luxury of thousands of pounds of downforce.