BIG Changes for 2010? (2 Viewers)

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Asher.. your right it very well may be the best attempt at saving the IHRA as a COMPANY. But thats it, and its a shame.... but it is what it is...

but.. i wonder if someone went to Feld and explained to him the effect this is going to have in terms he would understand...

Basicly tell him .. take the Ringling Brothers Circus and send all the LIVE animal to Zoos.. and staple suffed versions of them in place for ther act and play live animal sounds when wheeled out in the ring for their time slot.

What would he think about that idea?

To me thats the same format... Couple booked cars i kind of like racing... Couple stuffed tigers with tiger sounds on the PA is kind of like a circus isn't it?

Yeah i'm one of the purists to the sport.. first memorys of the IHRA go back to 1975 right at 5 miles from my house igrew up in.

The Finials this weekend should have a decent turn out. From what i am hearing alot feel it will be the LAST IHRA National event and they want to say they were there....

Not Me...


Billy
 
I guess as a ex IHRA competitor I am confused.

When we won the Northern Nationals in 2006, the place was packed from one end to the other with spectators. We had really good spectator turn outs at all of the events that year......that being said...why change the whole sanction body.

What changed in the last 3 years, people are broke, thats obvious. NHRA has a hard time filling the stands. ADRL is packin em in with free admission, $25 parking and there isn't a drop of Nitromethane in the pits.......someone please explain to me why people go watch the ADRL and there is no Nitro however, IHRA and NHRA feel they would be crippled without cars running it?

I am not a fan of 1/8 mile racing, I would rather run 1/4 if I had a chocie, but it doesn't seem to bother the spectators, nor does it bother them that none of the cars run NITRO. So I guess my question is whats is the missing link. I don't think changing the face of drag racing, like the folks in Norwalk are trying to do, when it works perfectly fine in Kenny Knowlings world over at the ADRL. A elimination ladder works for ball and stick sports for their playoffs, it as worked for drag racing since day 1 and it should remain that way. Racers want to race, that is the reason they are there. The competitve drive to out qualify (the tuners desire), and the racers desire to be better than everyone in the pits on sunday should not be changed.

I hope something keeps IHRA afloat, but not qualifying and having a chicago style type elimination can be confusing to spectators, almsot as much as watching a class with a spot in the tree if you don't know what is going on.

Good Luck,

Tony
 
Two cars pull to the line, the winner will recieve twice the money of the loser, and if he/she is one of the two quickest winners, he/she will qualify for additional money running in the final. Doesn't that fit the definition of a race?

All cars will run twice a day, won't that make the total number of races more than what there is now?

As a participant, you can end up with two trophies a weekend, if that is what you are into. And if you lost all four rounds, you would still make what you would have at a "national" event if you qualified. And it is a compact 3 hour show each day for two days. Where is the downside for anyone?

And the sportsman program is still intact with better time frames for the weekend.

I think some of us need to open our minds just a crack and let some new ideas sink in once in a while.

The methods of running events as they have been has been financially disasterous for the tracks, sanctioning bodies (even ADRL until they gave away tickets) and the participants. Let something new happen, try it and maybe, just maybe, you'll say "what took us so long to change?" If the ADRL had not changed to free admission they would be gone by now. NHRA is making deep cuts to survive. I applaud IHRA for trying something different, and their method of trying it at smaller venues before launching it on the national scene.
 
Can someone explain to me why a track would "hire" and "pay" IHRA when they could just book in the drivers themselves? Am I missing something here?

To me, this sounds exactly like what everyone thought:

IHRA = DEAD

I believe the tracks would want to do this because the weight of commitment is on IHRA's shoulders, not their's.

I will enjoy my seat as I sit back and watch this unfold at PBIR in January.
 
Well I figure I might as well add my 2 cents.. I agree with the fact that why does an IHRA track need the IHRA tp book in a race?? Yes, the tracks in Norwalk, OH & Cordova, IL do have 2 of the Longest Running "booked in" races. But- they only do them once a year! Also, this 3 hour window- IHRA needs to take into consideration; Oil downs- God forbid an accident, and of course-WEATHER!!! The last time I checked my SC/SP dragster did not come equipped Rain Tires!!! Whats going to happen if the ADRl decides to "book in" Nitro for one of there races?? That would be the final NAIL on the Coffin for the IHRA!!!

Long time TAFC racer Bunny Burkett mainly only does Match Races now. But- Bunny never has a problem getting booked into a race. Yes, she does run some of the Outlaw tracks on the East Coast- But- she always DRAWS a CROWD!!!


Bottom line-these IHRA tracks don't need the IHRA to book there races for them the tracks can do it themselves!!!!
 
One of the biggest issues the IHRA will likely find is getting quality teams to compete. And the reason for that is any sponsor who is looking to get involved in a racing team will see (if they investigate the sport) that the team really does not have much to race for. IE there will really be no legitimate world champion, and they can't promote their sponsored team as a world champ. A smart company will see there is no real benefit to sponsor an IHRA team IMO.
Return on investment is what a sponsor is all about but the recognition they get for promoting a team that earned a world title is worth sales (Proven over the years) win on Sunday sell on Monday is still valid.

I do hear there will be a TV contract for 2010, but if I want to watch a match race I will watch monster jam or go as far as WWE

Yes they can say I won the most rounds this year in their match race format, but when it is the same ol cars all the time, and they don't get to qualify for position, where is the real incentive. drag racing is known for teams having $100,000's worth of race equipment on the track to win a paltry sum in the end. They do it for one reason, To win a race against your peers, because of the competitive they have.
It will be interesting for sure.

Maybe AP or SP are doing what their parent company has told them is going to happen and they had to come up with a way to make it seem legit. Maybe they are towing the company line. I do find it hard to believe they were behind all these changes, but maybe they don't have a clue what drag racing really is all about (from a racer or real fans point of view).
Trussell racing hit the nail on the head (in the comp plus comments below) as did Mr. Carrier. But even if the IHRA did not change for 2010 I bet Trussell would not compete in the "I" next year. Why would he?
THE IHRA COMMUNITY WEIGHS IN ON 2010 RACE FORMAT

Dean

SPEEDZONE MAGAZINE ONLINE
 
IE there will really be no legitimate world champion, and they can't promote their sponsored team as a world champ. A smart company will see there is no real benefit to sponsor an IHRA team IMO.
Return on investment is what a sponsor is all about but the recognition they get for promoting a team that earned a world title is worth sales (Proven over the years) win on Sunday sell on Monday is still valid.

Winning is not always important to a sponsor. If you are selling cars or speed equipment, winning is important, but for other sponsors, it is secondary. Among the other things that matter are being able to bring key customers to races and have them enjoy themselves, being able to use the driver for other promotional events, etc. In those cases, a personable, well-liked driver who does not win can be more valuable than a winning driver who acts like a jerk.

I used to work for a company that sponsored a NASCAR team. The driver we sponsored for several years never won, but key customers loved him. He was a hit in the hospitality tent and if we took him to visit a client's office, everyone got excited. That provided more value than a win would have.

Jim
 
I do understand that Jim, and I agree with you but the deal (getting sponsored in the IHRA) is already tough and this can not help matters. exposrue is so important and three days worth of exposure is better than to. The purists/hardcores that love drag racing will likely stay away simply because it really is not real racing. and they say hard core fans vs the casual fan at a national event is roughly 25%-40% of the people in the stands.
that is a big drop in the gate.
Dean
 
The purists/hardcores that love drag racing will likely stay away simply because it really is not real racing. and they say hard core fans vs the casual fan at a national event is roughly 25%-40% of the people in the stands.
that is a big drop in the gate.

I understand that, Dean. While I would not expect it right out of the gate, it is possible that the new IHRA format could attract fewer hard-core fans but attract more casual fans. If it works as I believe they think it will work, they will get an overall increase in attendance but fewer of those there will be real racing fans.

It will be like monster trucks. Are there any hard core monster truck racing fans? Or do they get large crowds of people who just want to see them run?

Jim
 
I guess as a ex IHRA competitor I am confused.

When we won the Northern Nationals in 2006, the place was packed from one end to the other with spectators. We had really good spectator turn outs at all of the events that year......that being said...why change the whole sanction body.

What changed in the last 3 years, people are broke, thats obvious. NHRA has a hard time filling the stands. ADRL is packin em in with free admission, $25 parking and there isn't a drop of Nitromethane in the pits.......someone please explain to me why people go watch the ADRL and there is no Nitro however, IHRA and NHRA feel they would be crippled without cars running it?

I am not a fan of 1/8 mile racing, I would rather run 1/4 if I had a chocie, but it doesn't seem to bother the spectators, nor does it bother them that none of the cars run NITRO. So I guess my question is whats is the missing link. I don't think changing the face of drag racing, like the folks in Norwalk are trying to do, when it works perfectly fine in Kenny Knowlings world over at the ADRL. A elimination ladder works for ball and stick sports for their playoffs, it as worked for drag racing since day 1 and it should remain that way. Racers want to race, that is the reason they are there. The competitve drive to out qualify (the tuners desire), and the racers desire to be better than everyone in the pits on sunday should not be changed.

I hope something keeps IHRA afloat, but not qualifying and having a chicago style type elimination can be confusing to spectators, almsot as much as watching a class with a spot in the tree if you don't know what is going on.

Good Luck,

Tony

Tony,

There are multiple problems but rather than address them one at a time they’ve decided to stick their heads in the sand. Spectator counts (overall) for the past two years have been an atrocity. They’ve chased off both sponsors and competitors alike, and have done nothing to bring in any let alone new spectators. Martin had a good crowd. I attribute that to multiple things, Jason does a great job promoting that track, they have good shows on a regular basis, they promoted the race, and even during the ADRL race Kenny announced to fans to come back and support the IHRA race. On the flip side not one IHRA official came to any of the ADRL races to try and lure back some of their racers (although there were many IHRA officials at ADRL races this year in street clothes doing something).

You can’t treat EVERYONE from racer, sponsor, fan, track owners, etc like crap and expect to make money. Racing (not match races, not show, but racing) is a unique business that is multifaceted. You have the racers who are your clients that are coming. You have sponsors paying to be there, but you have to give them something in return, and then you have the paying customers. IHRA used to run like a well oiled machine. Not so long ago when it was the place people wanted to race because it was fun, you were treated GREAT, and the show moved on. Back in the day we’d have 700 to 1000 racecars at an event and it would go off without a problem. We’ve had races this year with 300 cars that couldn’t finish on time. For whatever reason they’re not able to get the cars down the track and this has made guys who were IHRA stalwarts decide to go other places.

As a sponsor a decade ago it would cost me $2500 to be a sponsor and I’d have 170 to 200 cars (in the classes I work with) to potentially try and sell product to. Today it costs $5000 to be a sponsor and there are about 30 cars to sell product to at National events. Now the math doesn’t work on this, and when I or any other sponsor asks “What can I do to help” we get what a classify as the German shepherd look (you know the head tilts a little to the side, with the tongue hanging out and a blank look).

When you talk to Sportsman racers who have competed with IHRA for years (and in some cases decades) I have not found ANY that like their TOC deal. Could they have done something so guys wouldn’t have had to travel as much? Sure they could have waited the points differently, and what not. Think about it, today is Tuesday of the final week of the season. Someone out there, who has NEVER been to an IHRA race, can show up to their last qualifier at the Rock this week, WIN, and Win again over the weekend and they’re the IHRA World Champion that is completely bogus!

You don’t need nitro to make money! You can do it with other classes, but when TPTB have had other options they have chosen not to take them. I do like the idea of not running all of the classes at all of the races, it simply makes sense. There are areas of the country that have stronger or weaker followings for certain classes so catering to that is wise. I like the idea of not going to Edmonton no offense to the great spectators up there, but as a sponsor I can attend 3 or 4 events for the amount of money it costs me to attend that one (again we’re back to simple math). There were people willing to PAY to split P/M two years ago, but IHRA said it would never happen. There were people willing to pay to keep the P/S program for this year but again no…

I wish them well with this new program, but I don’t see them generating enough money off of the back gate (the racers) to make it worthwhile to support any sportsman program in the future. Hopefully IHRA can be resurrected from this.

Doug

PS. Tell everyone I say hello :)
 
A lot of valid points Doug,

The TOC is bogus for sure, no reward for loyalty and racing the entire season with the IHRA. I thought the entire organization was built on loyalty and a family, fun atmosphere.

If times are tough and people have no money to spend, who thinks they will all of a sudden have some money appear in their wallet to come to an IHRA event because there is a winner on Sat and Sun. MONEY IS THE PROBLEM. Why is IHRA trying to fix what is not broken, the format in which all drag races have taken place since the start of time.

Just an example, NHRA Joliet has the stands the fullest on Friday night, when there is no winner but people can see more cars run than on Sunday when they only see 16 of each class. Now, NHRA can barely get a full field so no one sees more cars on Fri and Sat like years past.

The bottom line is, people love to watch racing but can't afford to go, the economy stinks. Changing the race structure doesn't make $100 bills fall in thier laps to spend at a drag race.

I think Kenny Knowling is on to something. He has the stands packed to the rafters and the sponsors that have money will flock to be a part of that in order to push their product in front of all those fans. Once he gets a TV deal and makes everyone else look ridiculous and the sponsors come running, it will be clear that he knows how to handle this crappy economy. Not to mention, all door slammers, no NITRO, and all his spectators are home with their families on Sunday. My hat is off to Kenny, Good Job.

Tony
 
I'm still trying to digest this and what it's going to mean for me personally, my home track, and the "I" in general. I'll try to keep a positive spin on this and consider that these changes fewer classes, 3 hrs eliminations) MIGHT make it much more feasible for a proper TV contract. If that happens and it attracts a big audience, then maybe it'll be okay...
 
I grew up on drag racing that emphasized the show aspect of it, not the racing.
sounds like fun to me.
 
Well I figure I might as well add my 2 cents.. I agree with the fact that why does an IHRA track need the IHRA tp book in a race?? Yes, the tracks in Norwalk, OH & Cordova, IL do have 2 of the Longest Running "booked in" races. But- they only do them once a year! Also, this 3 hour window- IHRA needs to take into consideration; Oil downs- God forbid an accident, and of course-WEATHER!!! The last time I checked my SC/SP dragster did not come equipped Rain Tires!!! Whats going to happen if the ADRl decides to "book in" Nitro for one of there races?? That would be the final NAIL on the Coffin for the IHRA!!!

Long time TAFC racer Bunny Burkett mainly only does Match Races now. But- Bunny never has a problem getting booked into a race. Yes, she does run some of the Outlaw tracks on the East Coast- But- she always DRAWS a CROWD!!!


Bottom line-these IHRA tracks don't need the IHRA to book there races for them the tracks can do it themselves!!!!

Raceway Park is 1 of those tracks that Bunny is synonymous with
 
Hell, if it's going to be a booked in match race, New England does that pretty well on their own. What the hell do they need the IHRA for?:mad:

Raceway Park used to be phenomenal with booked-in races when Vinnie was Alive, now it's booking ins is for Tom Meents and Gary Porter and Those Monster trucks to tailor to the kids, while turing off those like myself who is a purist but also likes some show as long as it's on the strip (Jets, Wheelstanders, etc). I've been getting a bunch of tapes from a video guy who taped stuff at Raceway Park and Epping as well as Atco, I have the 1990 US All Pro Funny Car Championships, 1991, All American Jet Car Nationals, 1992 Night of Thrills & Super Funny Car Spectacular, 1992 Jet Cars Under The Stars @ Epping, and the 1995 Super Funny Car Spectacular. All of which had "NAMES" Like Force, Etchells, Worsham, Epler, Brotherton, Garlits/Larsen, "Uncle Frankie" (Manzo), Bunny, Hartman, Santucci, Caminito, Smith, even Amato. Nowadays RP's "Name Value" booked in Racers are Manzo, Bunny, even Phil Burkart and he's driving for Boninfante and his nostalgia flopper. this is not including Jets, Wheelstanders, pro mods, and Top Fuel Harleys. I Wish RP went back to booking in a wednesday night or a saturday night with a couple top fuelers, a few nitro floppers, some alky cars.....(goes into dream mode)....

AAHH HA HA HA HA HAHAHAAAOOOOOOOO RRRRACEWAY PARK!!!!!! WEDNESDAY NIGHT!!! NITRO, JETS, RACEWAY Park is the Place to be!!! Top Fuel Dragsters, Antron Brown!!! Vs Doug Foley!!! NITRO FUNNY CARS!!!! JOHN "BRUTE" FORCE!! ASHLEY FORCE HOOD!!!! BOB TASCA!!!! JACK WYATT!!! ALKY FLOPPERS!!! INCLUDING FRANK MANZO!!! PRO MODS!!! JET DRAGSTERS!!! JET FUNNY CARS!!! WHEELSTANDERS!!! BOB MOTZ!!! TUNNEL OF FIRE!!! BENNY THE BOMB!!! AAHH HA HA HA HA HAHAHAAAOOOOOOOO RRRRACE.....

*WAKES UP*

Oh there i go dreaming again of the Golden Days of Raceway Park...
 
The TOC is bogus for sure, no reward for loyalty and racing the entire season with the IHRA.

I thought one of the purposes of the TOC was so that racers would not have to run the entire season of IHRA national events to be in the hunt for the championship.

The TOC lets sportsman racers stay close to home and race to qualify for the national championship. That puts it within reach of more racers, instead of just those who can afford to go to many national events.

Jim
 
BILLY WEEKS: My understanding from the very beginning was that Feld was only interested in buying the Monster Truck program, but had to take IHRA as part of the deal. If that’s true it’s unlikely that he’d give a darn about what we care about in terms of drag racing. I’d wager that it’s all about the bottom line, and as long as Aaron Polburn delivers, that’s all he’d care about.

TONY GILLIG: Free tickets mean something to people. It’s free, the ads sound exciting, so they come out to see the show, and that’s what it’s al about – the show.

VIRGIL HARTMAN is once again correct. Open your minds just a little.

DEAN MURDOCH: Dean, I feel you’re being slightly naïve. Very few sponsors advertise championships these days (although they certainly help). ROI is usually measured in other ways.

Jon Asher
 
BILLY WEEKS: My understanding from the very beginning was that Feld was only interested in buying the Monster Truck program, but had to take IHRA as part of the deal. If that’s true it’s unlikely that he’d give a darn about what we care about in terms of drag racing. I’d wager that it’s all about the bottom line, and as long as Aaron Polburn delivers, that’s all he’d care about.

Jon Asher


I agree Jon 100%.. it just seems Feld was never shown the potential of what the IHRA could be. IMO...

i also think that the casual fan is extremely under estimated. the casual fan sees th ads in the paper an on tv and find out the race is coming.. they have been before and want to come back.. they aren't as rabid as myself and many are.. but they know what they like.. and could be very disapointed as well... case in point was this years Spring Nationals.. we all.. the net plugged in crowd knew no funny car class of any kind..but the casual fan did not... i belive Comp Plus had a article with Terry McMillen (sp) and he mention how many people were asking him about the funny cars since he once drove his Alky Funny nad still owned one... so much to the point i believe he was ready to scream...lol... i understand it.. many of us do .. no sponsorship you got to cut back some... but many of those fans left dejected.. will they return? thats the big question....specialy when less than an hour and a half up the road from here twice a year will be all the pro classes. yeah it will cost more..but still they get to see everything they want and alot more of it...

biggest thing for this neck of the woods are the Pro Mods gone.... people around here will cut your head off for a good Pro Mod race... Peidmont packs them in on thursdays for the BIG DOG shows..that shows that...


But it is what it is, its not the show i want to see. so i will drive up the road twice a year for a nitro fix and across town for the ADRL shows... i don't think myself or any of the hard core fans will be missed since they are not marketing now to our fan base.


Billy
 
One of the biggest issues the IHRA will likely find is getting quality teams to compete. And the reason for that is any much to race for. IE there will really be no legitimate world champion, and they can't promote their sponsored team as a world champ.
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Just guessing here but, I'm thinkin they will put several different teams / groups of cars together. A different group to cover different parts of the country, to keep travel cost down.

Only one cars sponsors get to claim "WORLD CHAMP" so I think sponsors are in it more for the exposure. With this system they know their car will race, get photoed for the mags., talked about on the PA. ect. No more DNQ's

Also it would cost FAR less to sponsor a car for say 5 or 6 races then for 24.

Besides as far as "WORLD CHAMP" goes, nhra pretty much killed that 2 yrs ago and they're still going.
 
I would like to comment on some things brought up here:

Jon, you got a fever? feeling a little ill? off the wagon? - twice you agreed with something I posted.

ADRL - the concept failed miserably when the customer had to buy tickets. As a last gasp effort, they gave away tickets, Less than 1/6th of the tickets given away are used. As parking prices rise, the crowd will thin out. You will get them there once, hit them with high parking prices and they will think twice about coming back again.

ADRL - no nitro? why did they push so hard for the injected nitro cars? You don't think they see a need to keep upping the wow factor? Even free tickets will only keep them coming for so long.

Pro Stock has shown loyalty to no one, so why should anyone want to lure them back? Pro mod has to penalize the late model bodies because the pro stockers look the same, just much slower. I think they fit in more with the top sportsman cars.

BIG DAWG and 10.5 is not pro mod. Our local tracks have more cars and spectators for Thurs and Fri night clocks off test and tunes. Many "run what you brung" cars with a lot of "racing" with a lot of money at stake, and not one qualifying run made or time announced. And everyone pays to get in.

IHRA - the national events as a whole have not been a profitable part of the organization since Larry Carrier. They have shown spikes of coming around over the years, but never have they been accross the board consistent successes. This is my opinion only based on my observations, I have no hard facts and may be off base, but I don't think so. Sorry Aaron for speaking about your business without facts.

Sponsorships - For four years we helped Honeywell Products be in the top 5 in sponsor exposure at NHRA national events as tracked by NHRA. Yet we didn't even win a race let alone a championship. And we also provided 6 -8 times the dollar equivelent of exposure outside of the NHRA national event venues. Things like corporate conventions (for Honeywell and their customers), newspaper articles (a full page story in the sports section of the Philadelphia newspaper was equal to the year's sponsorship funding) TV appearances on ESPN, Oxygen, TLC, etc, "B" roll for local news programs, radio interviews, pre event promotions, and on and on. If you want to get and keep a large sponsor, you are going to have to educate yourself in the marketing industry and service that sponsor in many ways, all pointing to the end result of .............. selling their products.
 
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