a further look at numbers in the dive debate (1 Viewer)

[PJ]

I suppose that I should start by saying I fully believe that Force took a dive and that I get why they happen but I hate dives. I know I wouldn't want to win that way......

As Tony said in his interiews he only speaks the truth. Well I got wondering, if there was more truth out there. I remembered part of what helped him win the first countdown deal was that he didn't have to beat any other countdown cars.

Looking back I see that he raced Cruz on two occasions during the countdown stretch.
Cruz's number in those two races 8.481 and a 6.88.....hmmmm makes ya wonder

Jumping to last year when Cruz was the countdown winner. He and Tony only raced once over the countdown stretch. Tony did run a 4.89 which was well over half a second slower then what he had run in the previous 2 rounds (4.17 and 4.35). Meanwhile Cruz ran his slowest number of the day. Was it set a little softer knowing it was a safe run or were they just a little off (all 4 of his passes were close that day .11, .13, 15, .18)


What does this mean? Who knows just more info for the debate at least.


Remember last year when the Harley dive happened in the last race. Over the off season it dissappeared. But now with the coutndown we will have to hear this over and over for the next 6 races. Is this really the type of excitement they were hoping for.
I'm fine with guys getting ticked at each other but when the inegrity of our sport is in question then its not a good thing

 

[Chili]

You bring up a valid point for 2007 when Tony beat Cruz in Vegas. I was at that race and figured Tony would win that round since he was the only countdown car left in the field. Only the top 4 were running for the championship because of the point reset prior to Vegas. Cruz had the better car and had lane choice and took the prefered lane. Tony had his best pass of eliminations up to that point and Cruz smoked the tires. Although it didn't look too odd at the time the result wasn't surprising. The other time they faced in 07' was in Dallas where both of them had semi-final byes because of John's accident and Ashley's withdrawl.

As for last year they ran in the first race of the countdown in the semi-finals in Charlotte. I believe that Tony was higher in points at the time so I highly doubt they were "throwing" a race with the lower car winning with 5 events still to go.

When you have two cars it is a lot harder to help each other out. With four cars it can happen a lot more.

It sucks for the fans but NHRA can't enforce a rule of team diving. It's a one on one matchup and it's not like nitro cars get down the track clean on 90 percent of the time. If a car goes down the track 8 times in an event without a problem it is called a dominating performance. There is not way to police it and it is a joke that NHRA tries. All teams have done it or will be doing it. It's been happening since the 1980's and will continue to happen. That is one advantage of having a mulit car team. At least without a diving rule, teams could be up front about it and be honest. Pretending that you ran heads up and lie to us is total BS. However Force had to do it, otherwise there would have been disqualifications. Instead the fans are treated as a bunch of idiots.

I lost all respect for John Force only because of John's actions after the race and not for throwing the race. He had no choice for his team and I respect and understand that. AAA wanted their team in the countdown and without AAA money we would be another car down. John should of turned the other cheek and celebrated his teams win. He was out of control and that is not the John Force we all know. If Whit Bazemore acted like that at the top end 95% of this board would want Whit thrown out of drag racing.

I also lost a lot of respect for Tony and Cruz as well. They may have ran heads up in Brainard but I don't think they would of this past weekend. I can't say that for sure since it didn't happen but if it was that important for Cruz to make the top 10, I think it would of happened.

 

[Gordon]

I'm fine with guys getting ticked at each other but when the inegrity of our sport is in question then its not a good thing

I couldn't agree more, PJ. A little fire in the belly is, and always will be, a good thing. Anybody remember the article Bob Vandergriff wrote on that very subject?

But the integrity being in question is a bad thing.

I've always believed that the best practice to ensure equal treatment for all is simple, whether it be law, sport, military, or whatever: Make enforceable rules, and the enforce them. The "dive" rule is NOT enforceable, and therefore brings integrity into question. I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm workin' on it... If/when I come up with something, I'll be sure to pass it along.

 

[Rajunz]

You bring up a valid point for 2007 when Tony beat Cruz in Vegas. I was at that race and figured Tony would win that round since he was the only countdown car left in the field. Only the top 4 were running for the championship because of the point reset prior to Vegas. Cruz had the better car and had lane choice and took the prefered lane. Tony had his best pass of eliminations up to that point and Cruz smoked the tires.........................

Let's not forget the fact that Tony beat Robert Hight (of all people) for the Championship by 19 points, less than one round!

 

[ex-nsp]

It's interesting that Formula One has a slightly different but yet a similiar situation re: LAST YEAR'S Singapore race where, allegedly Alonso's teammate intentionally crashed to give Alonso an advantage when the safety car came out an advantage which allowed Alonso to win the race.

FIA is investigating that activity and will have a hearing on the 21st.


NHRA was able to clear the air on the Force fiasco before the Indy broadcast ended.

 

[haagar]

FIA is investigating that activity and will have a hearing on the 21st.


NHRA was able to clear the air on the Force fiasco before the Indy broadcast ended.

Maybe if Force fires Hight then Hight will go whining to the NHRA about it. Don't think that will happen thought because unlike Piquet Jr, Hight can drive a car.

(not a Piquet fan in case it isn't obvious)

 

[vegasnitro]

Maybe if Force fires Hight then Hight will go whining to the NHRA about it. Don't think that will happen thought because unlike Piquet Jr, Hight can drive a car.

(not a Piquet fan in case it isn't obvious)

In fact, Piquet Jr is not even in the Renault anymore, dumped in the middle of the season for a pure rookie, Romain Grosjean.

 

[haagar]

In fact, Piquet Jr is not even in the Renault anymore, dumped in the middle of the season for a pure rookie, Romain Grosjean.

Right and when he got dumped he ran and told the FIA what Renault had done.

autosport.com - F1 News: Race-day meeting key to Renault case