What would happen if NHRA allowed more engines? (2 Viewers)

[Mooseman]

I would love to learn how to design and make and machine parts and make parts and things myself but I don't know how to learn that stuff . Where do you go? I cant afford to spend years at some university .

 

[john]

So, if an engine enjoys irrefutable performance superiority, why would it be necessary to ban others? Water seeks its own level in a case like this.

I'm not convinced that the Mopar Hemi was unbeatable; very good, but not unbeatable.

If it was unbeatable, a ban agaisnt other designs would be redundant.

Think about it...

I never said it couldn't be outrun, I said it was the deal that works better than the others. NHRA banned it to prevent the costs of fuel racing from spiraling out of control without any real purpose. If it makes you feel better if all the other engines are better, fine have it your way. You will still see the Hemi running Top Fuel for a long, long time. Whether you like it or not.

 

[FuelFan13]

How did you guys design everything and machine everything and make everything? How did you guys learn to make everything yourself and get the gear? How did you learn your skills?

It was a different world growing up in Australia. Because of high import duty a lot of parts were not available, so you made them. As a kid growing up I was an aero modeller and that helped when it became time to make wooden patterns to have a foundery cast a part. Also because it was a smaller country we were involved in many different types of motorsports with our business and you are exposed to a lot of different ideas. Racing today has become too specialized and many are unaware of what is going on in the rest of the world. The other day I was fighting something on Kaitlyn's car and I remembered something from a speedway motorcycle in 1969 and solved the problem! It is very satisfying to do well with something you have made and developed, rather than just going down the street with a wheelbarrow full of money and buying it. The only thing we did learn was that you will never get to a race if you do everything yourself, so you need to spend your time on your area of expertise.

The biggest hurdle is trying to figure out how to pay for everything! That is the major challenge facing race teams now.

Chris McGee.

 

[FuelFan13]

I would love to learn how to design and make and machine parts and make parts and things myself but I don't know how to learn that stuff . Where do you go? I cant afford to spend years at some university .

I think racing is the best school.

I noticed that you are from New Zealand. Do you realize how successful New Zealander's have been in racing over the years? Per head of population New Zealand has had more success than nearly any country I can think of. In Speedway they had a stranglehold on the World Championships for a couple of decades with Ivan Mauger, Barry Briggs and Ronnie Moore. The impact of Bruce McClaren in Formula 1 and Indianapolis was huge.

Chris McGee.

 

[Mooseman]

I think racing is the best school.

I noticed that you are from New Zealand. Do you realize how successful New Zealander's have been in racing over the years? Per head of population New Zealand has had more success than nearly any country I can think of. In Speedway they had a stranglehold on the World Championships for a couple of decades with Ivan Mauger, Barry Briggs and Ronnie Moore. The impact of Bruce McClaren in Formula 1 and Indianapolis was huge.

Chris McGee.

Yeah New Zealands motorsport history is great . Im 21 I love drag racing . I am yet to compete though . I have wanted to drag race for a number of years now but none of my family are involved in any racing and money has never been there . The last 2 years have been extremely frustrating for me I have been from job to job to job not really getting anywhere and I now am on the search for another job . I dont even have a shed or car so cant get out and tinker with anything . I have big dreams and ambition and I want to learn how to do as much myself as you say I dont want to be one of those guys who pulls out the cash and opens the catalogue sure I will buy parts out of catalogues but you know what I mean . Im in a permanent state of frustration , I know it sounds silly to say this at 21 but every day that goes by is another day wasted that I could have been doing something . I just look at the guys from the old days and the other young people who have family involved and are doing it and they all started early in life . I read about the old days and unless I am mistaken the old days just seem like an easier time to do this stuff .

 

[john]

I'll agree that the diversity would drive the sport. I remember when I was a kid and growing up about the old days. Olds and Caddy engines were big in the early '50s, the A Hemi in the late '50s and the B in the '60s and then the cammers and everything else. Smallblock Chevys and even a Buick now and then. The point is the sport is more powerful than the real world can handle and the cubic dollars it takes to put on this show is staggering. The Hemi is up to the task, the others can do it, but at what cost? I can buy a toilet seat for $5, would you pay $5000 for one that's gold plated if you destroyed it every time you used it?

 

[Mooseman]

I wont deny one bit that it takes a huge amount of money to run a top nitro car , but have heard many times the a top nitro car is cheaper to run then a nascar team . I think it was said once that it was like 3 million compared to 12 million a year or something . I wont compare drag racing to nascar that is pointless they are completely different sports but one question that can apply is why are sponsors more willing to give 12 million to a nascar team then 3 million to a nitro team in drag racing?

 

[Bill]

I never said it couldn't be outrun, I said it was the deal that works better than the others. NHRA banned it to prevent the costs of fuel racing from spiraling out of control without any real purpose. If it makes you feel better if all the other engines are better, fine have it your way. You will still see the Hemi running Top Fuel for a long, long time. Whether you like it or not.

RE: "NHRA banned it to prevent the costs of fuel racing from spiraling out of control..."

I wish I believed that. I am too cynical to accept that NHRA has had the racers' pocketbook first and foremost in their hierarchy of reasons to do ANYTHING, since long before this OHC ban took effect. I am more likely to believe that countless manufacturers that make aftermarket engine parts and forced-induction products, pressured NHRA to keep anything out of contention that could eventually, with enough R & D time, kick the Hemi's ass.
Just how they "pressured" NHRA to do this is open to speculation... $$$$$?

RE: You will still see the Hemi running Top Fuel for a long, long time. Whether you like it or not

Well, I like it, for the most part; I'm a MoPar supporter; my street/strip car is a MoPar, and I love it when Allen Johnson's car wins rounds in Pro Stock...

But, I get the same feeling watching Top Fuel (and, F/C) run with an all-Hemi field, that I do watching the Harleys outrunning the Jap bikes; I know it wouldn't necessarily be that way, if NHRA hadn't intervened.

That makes me uncomfortable...

 

[Mooseman]

Ive never owned or worked on a hemi though they are my favourite engine , I sometimes think that being a big hemi fan kind of makes me blind to other great engines . Though I have allways thought the mcgee was an awesome engine since I first saw it on my nitro warriors dvd and wouldnt mind getting my hands on a mcgee one day just to learn about them . I have been facinated a great deal by this engine though and since it is part of my beloved hemi engine family im even more facinated by it , just a shame chrylser gave up on it when they did .

 

[Mooseman]

 

[bukweet]

Not to stir to pot but does it seem odd that one team out there is now running a "FORD" engine? Imagine that.

That DOHC Hemi above would be frightening in it's potential with today's technology.

 

[john]

Not to stir to pot but does it seem odd that one team out there is now running a "FORD" engine? Imagine that.

Another upgraded 426 and this one is painted with a blue oval, imagine that?

That DOHC Hemi above would be frightening in it's potential with today's technology.

With a 14-71 huffer up top, I doubt the two engines would perform much differently, two valves or four. The hole you fill remains the same.

 

[FuelFan13]

With a 14-71 huffer up top, I doubt the two engines would perform much differently, two valves or four. The hole you fill remains the same.

With all the restrictions on the engines with blower, injector size etc. most of the engines are equalized. It is NHRA's version of the "restrictor plate".The 2 valve Hemi is also a very highly developed engine. During the '90s the World record for Top Fuel motorcycles alternated between Brian Johnson's 4-valve and Elmer Trett's two valve engines. Similar performance potential with the same blowers.
That is why it is so tragic that the engines are not allowed in the alcohol classes. Surely they could establish a fair lb/cubic inch factor and allow some variety. Back in the 90's Steve Harker's McGee ran similar to the best hemi.

 

[john]

Please don't take my posts as dispariging the McGee or any of the other great motors that we have seen in this thread. Your piece is a engineering marvel, the Chevys and Fords are also good players. I would love to see it go back to the old days, but The Show must go on.

 

[Bill]

>>>"I would love to see it go back to the old days, but The Show must go on."
Ian, exactly how would having several different engines "legal" in T/F stop the show?

It never did before...

Just askin'....

 

[john]

It never cost $50-100,000 to win a fuel race back in the day, did it? People used to pull in the pits with a fuel car on an open trailer and had a buddy or two for help. What do you see today? A business drives in with two tractor trailers and a crew of ten or fifteen people on the payroll. It is big money down the toilet every race, adding more motors drives costs even more (see the McGee stuff). Like everything else, it's the money.

 

[Bill]

It never cost $50-100,000 to win a fuel race back in the day, did it? People used to pull in the pits with a fuel car on an open trailer and had a buddy or two for help. What do you see today? A business drives in with two tractor trailers and a crew of ten or fifteen people on the payroll. It is big money down the toilet every race, adding more motors drives costs even more (see the McGee stuff). Like everything else, it's the money.

OK, I'll buy that.... I think that's a real shame, though.... But, that's just me.

 

[john]

OK, I'll buy that.... I think that's a real shame, though.... But, that's just me.

It isn't just you, I remember when the funny cars had Rat motors and looked like a real Camaro. Prostockers were actually built from cars that were made in a factory and not some fab shop. Anybody with a decent job and family to support their habit could run top fuel. That was racing, this is entertainment. Big business is involved, it's their money and they are going to get the most from it. I wish I was back there now.

 

[Mooseman]

Anyone know of any good highly detailed books on engine building and internal combustion engine theory?

 

[TSK]

Nobody's a bigger supporter of all things Mopar than I am. But, seeing diversity in what are supposed to be the ultimate categories of power and speed (TF and FC) wouldn't hurt my feelings.
It would be nice if NHRA took away the Chrysler Hemi spec requirements of TF and FC engines, and applied all the other rules, such as size limitations, to the engines. That would open the fields to innovation.
There is no real innovation these days. That is leading to stagnation and, some might say, boring racing.