What i would do about drivers Throwing races (1 Viewer)

[camaro]

I believe there is a rule already in place against throwing a race, however the rule is gotta be completely useless, as there is no way to prove a driver lost on purpose, unless there's a 'dive' switch in the cockpit and the tech guys check to see if its been pushed . my solution is to start a campaign of shaming anyone who intentionally lays down for a team car. For example in Force's case I would send a reporter to his pit before the run and ask him, in coy way, is he gonna race straight up, or……., in other words let him know everybody's watching and what everybody's thinking. If he proceeds to throw the race anyway, than instruct all the track announcers, TV reporters, print guys to bring up the subject of diving as often as possible, eventually taunting the perpetrator enuff that it becomes as embarrassing as 'ED' .

I'm wondering if something like this, is one of the reasons why schumacher's cars don’t lay down for each other (at least not so u would notice) . Years ago when it appeared that one of his cars 'tanked' for the other, the camera panned over to don and he had the same look on his face, my cat has when I walk in to the house and the trash is tipped over with food all over the place

 

[Cliff]

How long do you think drivers have been throwing races? Since 1951, maybe? I bet there would be some interesting stories from some of the old time racers on this. You remember when a big time Pro racer wouldn't qualify, & go talk to to the #16 Q. Suddenly #16 is broke & can't race, so after paying off #16, the pro racer gets in as an alternate? Did it so his sponsor got some air time. NHRA finally made a rule that no alternates would be allowed to race and that put a stop to it. I well remember when there was so much breakage at a race that the #3 or #4 alternate got in the show... and won the race. Oh well...

 

[mick]

just have the same small points you have in qualifying but in reverse......when team cars race if the margin of victory is within lets say .50 then no points are demoted......if a team car race yields a loser betwen .50 and 1.00, then said loser is demoted x points. if a team car race yields a really lame effort that is over a second behind, said loser is demoted x + y points. i know. stupid and silly. but then again, aren't multi-car teams in the first place? thanks john force, although i realize if he didn't, somebody else would have.....no easy answer. just deal with it. diving doesn't bother me.

 

[.]

They have telemetry from the computers already. Just add a couple on-board cameras and sync it to the computer data and it should be a lot easier to figure out what really happened. Then if caught diving, DQ'd immediately for that race and the next race at minimum.

 

[stitcherbob]

I think the danger of someone getting hurt or killed goes up exponentially the harder they go to try and convince us they weren't diving...
instead of sitting in the pits, we'll go up and stage but not go...
instead of staging and not going, we'll make it appear to break something or leak...
instead of making it appear to break something or leak, we'll launch but abort the run....
instead of aborting the run, we'll put on a show and drive out of the groove....
instead of the car just getting out of the groove, the throttle might stick and it blows up and goes into the crowd....on fire

I'll live with the first scenario....after all it was the NHRA that created team orders by making racing more conducive to multi-car teams instead of the way it used to be...

 

[The Counterfeiter]

If ya wanna throw a race, just put on more primary clutch weight. Nobody could prove anything . . . just a minor misjudgement by tuner.

 

[megadeth]

Not this crap again!

 

[mastertone]

OMG< DONT YOU PEOPLE HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO??

Not this crap again!

 

[Dennis]

Since we're playing "what I would do"....Nothing.

What can you do? Aside from Force's bad attempt at getting out of the groove, you can't prove someone did/didn't dive.

When 3 teams make up more than half the field (and NHRA is struggling trying to get full fields) are you really going to piss off these teams?

The answer lies in restructuring what defines "world champion". Or is that even necessary? In the current environment of a cookie cutter class is the championship even relevant anymore?

NHRA needs to evaluate the pro classes from top to bottom and stop letting the racers define the direction of the classes. They need to scientifically sample ticket paying customers at an event and find out why they pay the price to enter. My hunch is that the average fan only cares about what is on the track the day they spent their hard earned dollar to watch racing. I'd bet that 95% of people in the stands at Vegas don't care who wins the championship in Pomona, they want to see two cars race to the finish. Poll the average fan "Who are the reigning champions in each class?" I bet they don't even know.

As a side note, I would also be interested in what the average fan cares about for the whole NHRA experience. Does racing to 1000 ft matter? Do you care if a top fueler runs 300 MPH or 340 MPH? Do you want to see Pro Stockers that look stock?

I don't think NHRA does enough to research what the ticket paying fan is interested in when they are handing over the money that allows racers to do what they do.

 

[Rajunz]

just have the same small points you have in qualifying but in reverse......when team cars race if the margin of victory is within lets say .50 then no points are demoted......if a team car race yields a loser betwen .50 and 1.00, then said loser is demoted x points. if a team car race yields a really lame effort that is over a second behind, said loser is demoted x + y points. i know. stupid and silly. but then again, aren't multi-car teams in the first place? thanks john force, although i realize if he didn't, somebody else would have.....no easy answer. just deal with it. diving doesn't bother me.

That wouldn't work. Diving is only really an issue at the final regular season race (Indy) or late in the Countdown. JF sitting in 6th place, with no chance of winning the Championship his self would still rather take a points deduction if it helps one of his other cars. The first post from James, that......

 

[stitcherbob]

If ya wanna throw a race, just put on more primary clutch weight. Nobody could prove anything . . . just a minor misjudgement by tuner.

then the internet would light up with "get rid of him, he's no good" like Cruz's tuner had to deal with lately

 

[BaldyLochs]

Refer to the Larry Dixon 2 seat thread. Maybe they can change up these cars to have 2 drivers on board? One runs the throttle, one steers. Hey it works for Offshore Powerboat racing.

 

[Cliff]

OK, just give points to the team, not the driver.

 

[I was NITRO BREATH]

Since we're playing "what I would do"....Nothing.

What can you do? Aside from Force's bad attempt at getting out of the groove, you can't prove someone did/didn't dive.

When 3 teams make up more than half the field (and NHRA is struggling trying to get full fields) are you really going to piss off these teams?

The answer lies in restructuring what defines "world champion". Or is that even necessary? In the current environment of a cookie cutter class is the championship even relevant anymore?

NHRA needs to evaluate the pro classes from top to bottom and stop letting the racers define the direction of the classes. They need to scientifically sample ticket paying customers at an event and find out why they pay the price to enter. My hunch is that the average fan only cares about what is on the track the day they spent their hard earned dollar to watch racing. I'd bet that 95% of people in the stands at Vegas don't care who wins the championship in Pomona, they want to see two cars race to the finish. Poll the average fan "Who are the reigning champions in each class?" I bet they don't even know.

As a side note, I would also be interested in what the average fan cares about for the whole NHRA experience. Does racing to 1000 ft matter? Do you care if a top fueler runs 300 MPH or 340 MPH? Do you want to see Pro Stockers that look stock?

I don't think NHRA does enough to research what the ticket paying fan is interested in when they are handing over the money that allows racers to do what they do.

Dennis i like the idea of polling fans at races. But from my personal experience i think nhra fans are knowledgeable and care alot about drivers and cars. I’ve gone to alot of races over the years and all over the country. I talk to the folks around me watching the race or eating between rounds. My unofficial poll would say that nhra fans are quite knowledgeable. They are absolutely aware of drivers and who’s in the points lead.

 

[Nick Name]

If ya wanna throw a race, just put on more primary clutch weight. Nobody could prove anything . . . just a minor misjudgement by tuner.

I questioned why they didn't just do this in the first place. Do you suppose the crew chief wanted no part of diving?

 

[my friends call me Zappy]

People please, it can't pe policed befor the race, & it CAN'T be proven after the race. Give it up. NHRA should drop the rule and just let the dive car stay in the pit, instead of trying to fool us.

 

[Jon Asher]

Paul Sapienza's first sentence is absolutely correct: "... it can't pe policed before the race, & it CAN'T be proven after the race." I'm sorry if this is angering people, but grow up. Every form of motorsports that involves a team, i.e., more than one car owned by the same entity, from Formula 1 on down has diving. Most of the time it's done subtly, others not so much. There was one F1 race this season in which one team car was far superior to the other, and when they came in for their pit stops the slower car was ordered out first. The quicker driver soon overtook and passed him again, but a few laps from the conclusion the quicker car pulled over and let the other guy through, because that was what the team wanted. Since there's no way of proving anything -- and even if NHRA thought there was and decided to disqualify a driver, just imagine the courtroom scene later. Courtrooms demand proof, not suspicion. A disqualified driver could probably sue -- and win -- a substantial amount under those circumstances. As an example, some years ago a driver was alleged to have bribed an official in order to win a race. The rumor got back to the sanctioning body president, who (privately) stated he'd demand the trophy and the money back and would suspend the driver in question. Then his lawyer explained the facts of the law to him, and nothing was done because there was no actual, physical proof that the bribe had taken place. It's the same thing with throwing a race. Proving it is a lot harder than suggesting it.

Jon Asher
Senior Editor
CompetitionPlus.com
DragRacingEdge.com

 

[yoda]

You have a problem with a team's tactics? A direct link to their ear is the Just Say No approach; the giant rolling billboard tells you who to ignore. You think Peak wants to be associated with someone that loses them business? I don't think that's how it works for them...

BUT- they DO want to be associated with the World Champion- that is good for THEIR business- and when a team owner makes that call, it is their strategy to make sure they have a dog not only in the hunt, but at the front of the pack. If JF and RH were 8th & 9th in Vegas, that race would have been top-notch. But as we are all aware, if striking distance to success is within reach, and you can control your own (financial) destiny, the call goes towards the well being of YOUR TEAM, and everything else- fans and sport included- are second place.
We, as drag racing fans, absolutely understand what second place is...

 

[TSK]

If the team owner would man up and just admit a dive happened, I think most fans could live with that.
It’s when a dive is blatantly obvious and the diver tap dances around the subject, acting all huffy for getting called out, that makes me wish there was some legitimate way to penalize them.

 

[Jimbo]

For what it's worth I remember watching funny car match races in the 60's and I never knew until about ten years ago they were all fixed and the promoters knew each round which car was going to win!!
When a driver would not agree to go along with the promoters then would find themselves no longer booked for match racing.

To me it always look like real racing and it did not look fixed in anyway but it was!!!!
Remember back in the 60's there were only a few big time promoters who were booking match races from California to Maine so either you did what they wanted or you took your car and went home.

I learned about this from someone who raced his funny car for years and he told the story not only to me but to many others. No names but I will tell you he ran out of Texas.

Jim Hill
www.nostalgicracingdecals.com