__
Nitro Member
Just read Larry Morgan's comments on CompPlus. What is the difference between prepping a track for fuel cars, pro stock and the alcohol classes? What should be done in between rounds to make it better for one or the other?
Track prep? (1 Viewer)
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The Counterfeiter
Nitro Member
From Charles - Larry Morgan's comments on CompPlus. What is the difference between prepping a track for fuel cars, pro stock and the alcohol classes? What should be done in between rounds to make it better for one or the other?
A couple of interesting questions! Track prep appears to be more witchcraft than rocket science. A friend who has been racing for more than 30 years did a lot of research on this. Variables as small as the type of tire carcass used on the Gannon (tractor that applies rubber by dragging used tires) can apparently make a huge difference. LVMS uses only drag slicks - a local raceway was apparently using what was available because . . . there is no standard!
A lot of attention is focused on the starting line before PS cars run, but not much is done downtrack other than sweeping and traction compound. Do the PS teams know what needs to be done differently? If so, have they gotten together to agree and presented this to NHRA?
Obviously, the Safety Safari preps the track for the fuel cars first - everything after that is a compromise. Would fans sit still for a lengthy change of track prep before every PS round - I doubt it. It certainly would screw up NHRA's desire to move through eliminations quickly on race day.
Does NHRA give a S$$$ ? I don't know. Jeff Wolf was roundly criticized for his very frank opinion that the wrong people are running NHRA. Was Larry saying the same thing? As usual, more questions that will probably never be answered.
A couple of interesting questions! Track prep appears to be more witchcraft than rocket science. A friend who has been racing for more than 30 years did a lot of research on this. Variables as small as the type of tire carcass used on the Gannon (tractor that applies rubber by dragging used tires) can apparently make a huge difference. LVMS uses only drag slicks - a local raceway was apparently using what was available because . . . there is no standard!
A lot of attention is focused on the starting line before PS cars run, but not much is done downtrack other than sweeping and traction compound. Do the PS teams know what needs to be done differently? If so, have they gotten together to agree and presented this to NHRA?
Obviously, the Safety Safari preps the track for the fuel cars first - everything after that is a compromise. Would fans sit still for a lengthy change of track prep before every PS round - I doubt it. It certainly would screw up NHRA's desire to move through eliminations quickly on race day.
Does NHRA give a S$$$ ? I don't know. Jeff Wolf was roundly criticized for his very frank opinion that the wrong people are running NHRA. Was Larry saying the same thing? As usual, more questions that will probably never be answered.
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The Counterfeiter
Nitro Member
Tony - an EXCELLENT view on this! If the PS teams don't have a solution, how is NHRA supposed to fix the problem? Like many of us, I feel NHRA is being run by the wrong people. However - does Larry know how to fix the problem?
And if he does, is NHRA simply not listening?
HEMI6point1
Nitro Member
In a variation of something said by Rodney Dangerfield:
"I thought I was seeing a top fuel round but I was actually watching a pro stock match."
"I thought I was seeing a top fuel round but I was actually watching a pro stock match."
"Dr. Dirt"
Nitro Member
Isn't this a double edged sword? If NHRA mandated perfect surfaces at every facility, wouldn't that take some of the advantages away from teams who learn to run on bad tracks? I always love watching those who match race anywhere to stay alive in this sport proving they can get down a marginal track. They often take out the "top shelf" front runners when conditions aren't all that great. For me that's a big part of this sport.
HEMI6point1
Nitro Member
Jason Line ran 6.55 so I guess the track wasn't too bad.
The Counterfeiter
Nitro Member
NHRA made the decision to return to this track (probably out of a desire to get back into this market) after several years. Did anyone from NHRA (who knew anything about drag racing) actually go to Richmond and look at the track surface?
Should there be standards for track surfaces, prep and facilities for racers and fans? Yes, but some of the tracks NHRA owns are CRAP.
One more time - the NHRA is being run by people with no racing experience who are only concerned with lining their pockets. Racers are running on tracks that are too short to safely stop, have worn out asphalt and offer miserable amenities for fans.
We have purchased the rights for one of 26 motorhome spots above turns 2,3 and 4 at Phoenix International Raceway for $6000 per year, which includes two parking spots next to the motorhome. We can bring in as many customers as we want without having to buy tickets and allow them access to a hospitality area, bathrooms with showers, a food court and merchandise area that are not open to the public. NASCAR takes in $76,000 per race to provide services to 26 customers (which does not include what will be spent in food, booze and merchandise).This is a priceless marketing tool that is not available in NHRA.
I would love to be able to take customers to an NHRA national event, but it involves buying very expensive tickets, parking problems and (at a lot of tracks) very bad food and bathroom facilities. We would be very happy to pay $3000 to park our motorhome in a spot that offered great views of the strip and had private amenities for our customers. NHRA - are you listening?
David Kolenda
Nitro Member
A little tough to blame this on track prep. No matter how much you polish, a piece of crap is still crap. This track is not fit fit to race donkeys on, say nothing about fuel cars. Hopefully they make them correct the problem beore next year, or move to a track that is fair for all. Route 66 might be a good choice fo this race. <G>
Too many to list here
Nitro Member
The track was completely resurfaced last winter in response to the NHRA's requirement for returning to VMP. A lot of the complaining abut the track on TV was silly. Quite a few of the TF and Funny Car teams were spinning before they got half way down the concrete portion of the track (1st 1/8 mile).
I was there Friday. The real problem was the lack of sufficient equipment to clean up spills and resurface the track in a reasonable time. T Rizzo had an oil line come loose and oiled the track from behind the burnout box to about 300 feet. This took almost an hour to clean up. Several other spills took excessive time to clean. No wonder they couldn't do a proper track prep between classes or rounds.
Some day the NHRA management will realize they need to invest whatever it takes to provide a clean up system that can accomplish the job in 5-10 minutes no matter what happens. There would be and instant return on the investment as this would allow live TV which would greatly increase the viewership and the advertising revenue. Unfortunately the current management chooses to spend their time trying to copy the NASCAR playoff system.
BTW the TV viewership for the NASCAR playoffs is down from last year. Apparently the viewers understand what a phony system it is to determine a champion. The NHRA system will probably suffer a similar fate. If either organization wanted to have a meaningful playoff among a limited amount of teams then only those teams would be completing against each other as in other sports . If this is not practical for racing then scrap the whole deal.
I was there Friday. The real problem was the lack of sufficient equipment to clean up spills and resurface the track in a reasonable time. T Rizzo had an oil line come loose and oiled the track from behind the burnout box to about 300 feet. This took almost an hour to clean up. Several other spills took excessive time to clean. No wonder they couldn't do a proper track prep between classes or rounds.
Some day the NHRA management will realize they need to invest whatever it takes to provide a clean up system that can accomplish the job in 5-10 minutes no matter what happens. There would be and instant return on the investment as this would allow live TV which would greatly increase the viewership and the advertising revenue. Unfortunately the current management chooses to spend their time trying to copy the NASCAR playoff system.
BTW the TV viewership for the NASCAR playoffs is down from last year. Apparently the viewers understand what a phony system it is to determine a champion. The NHRA system will probably suffer a similar fate. If either organization wanted to have a meaningful playoff among a limited amount of teams then only those teams would be completing against each other as in other sports . If this is not practical for racing then scrap the whole deal.
D
Nitro Member
Of course they're not Jim, that's why they're building luxury boxes at Pomona. I think the only reson we saw the numbers we did this weekend was because of the atmospheric conditions. It's obvious that the track surface was somewhat suspect given the ETs we didn't see from the fuelers. When was the last time we've seen pro stock pedal fests? or so many aborted prostock runs in eliminations. How about the fuelers spinning the tires and grenading after the transistion.
S/F
D
Professor Dave
Nitro Member
We raced at VMP in July and David Rampy in his A/EA spun so hard he couldn't get off the line. The weather was why the pro stocks ran fast-the track was why so many of them didn't get off the line. It's kind of like when there is great weather for the fuel cars: you either run fast or go up in smoke. If you think the pro stock teams who shook or spun are stupid, then you must think that Alan Johnson guy is a dummy too, because he smoked the tires.
Bullet
Nitro Member
I agree.
Having variable racing conditions makes the true talent shine, as they adapt best to the given conditions.
As long as safety isn't compromised or overlooked, I think the start line was a little loose for the Pro Stockers yesterday afternoon.
DragFan2
Nitro Member
Paul,
Pardon my ignorance, but just what is SSR? I'd like to know what measuring stick you are referring to.
The only record runs were in Pro Stock and in Top Alcohol Funny Car. Both of them don't use alot of spoiler for down force on the top end.
I don't know if I blame NHRA for the issues with the track, but who ya gonna blame? The track prep was obviously suspect. I know there aren't many times you'll see track temps as low as they got during some of the qualifying sessions, but race day was run in pretty good conditions. That's the first race I can recall where all 3 races in the quarter finals of Pro Stock were aborted runs in one lane, and really good in the other. NHRA should have stopped it after two races in a row were junk, but they let the entire round go through without so much as a track check (according to people who were there). And the fuel cars had to deal with a pretty tricky track too, so nobody had it easy. Better get it right next year.
Paul,
Pardon my ignorance, but just what is SSR? I'd like to know what measuring stick you are referring to.
Hi
Kurt I believe he is using the derogatory term "Silver Spoon Racing", referring to the KB/Summit team of Greg & Jason.
Thanks JP
