New track prep

[JHOLE]

Hell Jeff that's about a dollars worth. How do you remember all that shit when you were a little kid. You had to be the most observing kid I know of. Great job explaining.

Peanut Butter, it's packed with protein, good for memory, better than track food ... Maybe a little kid.. But I also remember when the new guy came along to replace Butch Lambert.... Bumped me up on the seniority list.. so high on the list now, that there's no one left to be under me...

>and I started early.. ..can count my age, in weeks, of first time at the track, ...with my ears..

Pretty sure this was my eighth season.. ...speaking of youth - check the guy on the right..


Untitled by j t, on Flickr

Back then - good track prep was being able to go ahead of Arfons, and Gustin BEFORE they coated the track with kerosene...

..

 

[Jack]

Don't remember either Dave, Tony or Bruno saying a word about the change in NHRA's approach to track prep on any recent broadcast. Not to be discussed on air?

 

[none]

Yeah but, we did things abit different too... PJ has a point that it was about the money. Because IT WAS. We worked hard and were smart about it.

But, you know that we NEVER thrashed to make another round, or to quell any emotion... Hell , a chipped porcelain , would end the day for a circuit race.. and that was ok.. We built two motors per season , tuned to win at every race, retuned if needed, and if shit happened.. - the track aint the place to build a motor... because there is always next weekend - if you get it back to the shop and fix it right without blowing it up... Only time I ever remember losing any oil was at Cordova, against Trisch in the final , but the response was , " I knew it had four too many passes on it..."

I think that was what PJ was getting at..

..and to stay on topic.. As long as everyone is informed, and aware, - and there isn't a safety issue ... Good. Pull the track prep back.. It also puts things back a few decades, and let's the driver back into the sport.. One of the problems with the sport is that it has gotten too dictated by perfected projection of desired conditions anyway... Now, a track has to be ripped out and redone if there's a bump in it... Shit - Metcalf went "thumpa, thumpa, thumpa.." as you passed over each slab... Detroit, Saginaw, Byron, Kil-Kare, Assumption, St. Louis, et al... weren't a red carpet ...

If your car's too good to make it down the track and win... you either got the wrong car - or the wrong driver... the guy that won - read the situation correct... probably because he had enough years to understand less than perfect conditions...

Just my $.02

Careful Jeff,
You will feel the wrath of everyone who thinks that in the "Good Old Days" everything was perfect. Pointing out that tracks used to be bumpy, slippery and that often one lane was vastly superior will fly in the face of their Rose Colored Memories........ LoL

Alan

 

[Jimbo]

To me it almost looks like drag racing on the streets the way they are skating around on the top end.
Hard to believe they are on a prepared drag racing surface on a National Event.

Jim Hill
www.nostalgicracingdecals.com

 

[Nunz]

To me it almost looks like drag racing on the streets the way they are skating around on the top end.
Hard to believe they are on a prepared drag racing surface on a National Event.

Jim Hill
www.nostalgicracingdecals.com

And yet they are! Goes to show how much power these cars have, even a small percentage drop in glue changes things quite a bit. This may not be a bad thing, and like others have said, including Ace I believe, you'll never get any of the drivers or CCs to agree on just what rule or rules to change in order to ratchet the performance back a bit.

 

[none]

You mean just like the fans can chose to see a slower show and no more records or not and spend their money else where?
No fans no show either it works both ways!
I love a good peddle fest on occasion but not every dam run!
They added another 320 feet of shutdown area so what’s NHRA’s issue?
I don’t mind change it’s part of everything in life but the NHRA fan has had to deal with lots of them slowing them down will eventually be the final thing that sends them packing as well!
Now if they did what they did to go back to 1320 then that would be different!
They could have accomplished the same thing by taking their computers away too!
That would definitely reduce the cost and put everybody back to an even playing field to!
But watching cars smoke the tires every single run gets to be old really fast!
That’s a fact! If attendance starts to reflect the shows weakness then what’s their next move?

Well said

 

[JHOLE]

Careful Jeff,
You will feel the wrath of everyone who thinks that in the "Good Old Days" everything was perfect. Pointing out that tracks used to be bumpy, slippery and that often one lane was vastly superior will fly in the face of their Rose Colored Memories........ LoL

Alan

Apparently , we haven't met .. Otherwise, the " Careful Jeff " would have been deemed fruitless..

But , I appreciate the thought... Thank You.

I'm having a little trouble with the thrust of the rest of your comment.. I'm not sure if it means that everything wasn't as perfect as they remember as "perfect" ... OR, that You feel that it wasn't perfect back then at all.. Or , that you feel that it has continuously gotten better, and we should consider ourselves lucky to be where we are because we are as close to "perfect" as we can get each year that things advance... all things considered, advancement is always a plus... ...??

To be equally clear on my position - I feel that the sport was perfect - when all of the predetermined parameters weren't.. Clear as mud right..

Somewhere there is a sweetspot between Romantic nostalgism, and real time business and technology... Some where along the road, for example, we went to binary pedals for fuel cars.. No matter how hard you want to call smoking tires a " pedal fest" - to me , it is no different than two kids on different sides of the dining room fighting to control to light fixture via a 3-way switch... If assumed perfect track prep has begat binary throttles , i vote for less track prep...

Seriously, If it has gotten to the point that engineered expectation dictates perceived actuality, over reality, then the dismal end has been reached. ..If we have gotten to the point that the argument is that "we couldn't possibly drive our cars on any track that isn't perfect" - then - I guess we will have to come up with a different name for what it has become.. Because " Drag Racing" existed before whatever this is..

Perfect or not, right or wrong, I saw more really good stuff when it was WAY LESS perfect... , and THAT was what made it special..

Poker would suck too if everyone got the same cards every hand... ..and welding magnesium would be a boardgame... ..$.02

 

[none]

Jeff,
I think we're on the same side here. I don't go back to the 60's but I go back far enough to have been to races where the winner was determined by lane choice. When out of 30 nitro match ups on the day (15 each TF and FC) only 1 winner came from the left lane, that was not a good show for anybody.

I also remember when an oil down would be cleaned up with rice hull ash and a couple of guys on a tailgate with brooms. The traction was then restored by the next 10 cars that had no chance of getting down the track in that lane. And while there will sometimes still be one that is preferred by most, it is now very common for some teams to choose the left and some the right. Last week most everyone liked the right lane, but you could win from the left Courtney ran 2nd low ET of the day in the left.

And as for turning the gas pedal into a switch, I'm with you on that as well. For the longest time Tony Schumacher had the longest throw throttle in the TF pits, and his logic was that while he might be giving up a hundredth and a half in reaction time he felt the advantage if he had to pedal would be worth the trade. In other words, he would win more pedal fests, than he lost holeshots. And for a time he did.

I really enjoyed the race last weekend, because it wasn't easy to win. The crew chiefs had to dial back a bit to match the track, not just pour the coal to it, and the drivers had to in many cases do more than just hit the gas and throw the chutes. The skill of being a driver should require more than just hold the throttle down and hold the wheel straight. That's my .02

Alan

 

[Dennis]

I really enjoyed the race last weekend, because it wasn't easy to win. The crew chiefs had to dial back a bit to match the track, not just pour the coal to it, and the drivers had to in many cases do more than just hit the gas and throw the chutes. The skill of being a driver should require more than just hold the throttle down and hold the wheel straight. That's my .02

I agree with this 100%. It was exciting to see some new names in the later rounds.

 

[TooTall999]

Hmmm....seperating good drivers from steering wheel holders...maybe that's why Hagen is whining?

 

[Topfuel386]

The one thing I learned from Charlotte in my attempt to win a round is I don't want to pay the bill to pedal it. It cost me an injector, a blower, one cylinder head, half set of rocker assembly, blower restraint and wires/cables. There goes what I budget to run a race.

 

[none]

The one thing I learned from Charlotte in my attempt to win a round is I don't want to pay the bill to pedal it. It cost me an injector, a blower, one cylinder head, half set of rocker assembly, blower restraint and wires/cables. There goes what I budget to run a race.

And thank you for telling it like it is because that’s your wallet and you know what it’s gonna cost to replace all that stuff.

 

[Bob K.]

This is the most BONE HEAD MOVE that NHRA has done in recent memory! I am not a "keyboard crew chief" I started racing in 1961. How damn stupid is it to watch race cars blow up hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of parts? This was really obvious with the STUPID Atlanta track with a BUMP in it. This track should be off the schedule until they redo the crap track! Even if the cars hook up, how many hundreds of clutch discs will be worn out? If NHRA really wanted to slow the cars down they could mandate a smaller fuel pump and restrict the overdrive of the blower. Any further drastic actions would cost a ridiculous amount of money. Why the hell can't these idiots figure this out? I DO know fuel dragsters real well, my neighbor ran one and I was on a team. I ran my own AA/FD in '63 until it blew up and I figured door cars were better for me. One things for sure, at almost 75 years old, I will NEVER buy a 3 or 4 day ticket at the ridiculous prices of the National events just to watch cars doing "pedal fests" and crashes due to sh!t track conditions! Why don't teams test here in Las Vegas any more? Because our guys prepare the track the way it SHOULD be prepared! Anyway this is just my observations and opinions and I don't give a damn if they are liked or not. I loved the sport of drag racing from 1960, To see this stupid "No prep" racing with cars that are built for properly prepped tracks and all the move to 1/8th mile racing drives me nuts! Who the hell wants to watch an eighth mile race on a track that is worthy of National events? Well the proof is in the fact that there are NO SPECTATORS! As far as I am concerned, the unfortunate loss of life of the Top Sportsman racer just MIGHT be a result of the crap track prep. If I were a parent of this poor guy, I would explore legal action! This car lost traction BEFORE the finish line, got air under it and that was it for him. This is just my opinion, It is only a possibility and may have had nothing to do with it. I am only a retired engineer and I look at all possibilities. Could be wrong, that's for sure, but I still think that NHRA should immediately go back to proper track prep. NUFF SAID!!!

 

[Bob K.]

Oh by the way AR, when I started racing, it really WAS the good old days. Every weekend a world record could be set. There was none of this damn slowing down to win. We wanted to beat the other guy by as much as we could. No electronics, lots of spectators every weekend. I am so glad I raced in those days, I won over 100 trophys by the tine I was 22 years old and every weekend was an adventure!
At my age I look back at those fun days and still enjoy watching Stock and Super Stock racing along with the Pros. I have meant a lot of friends over the years but most of them are gone now. I sure would like to see NHRA do something to improve the attendance at regional and divisional races. Everyone I talk to will not go to those races due to those damn throttle stop cars! Why the hell don't they just run Pro and Super Pro cars? Oh yeah, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! Well I guess the fans don't matter! DO THEY? Divisional races at Fremont years ago had full grandstands. Fut that's before those damn throttle stops and electronics! Super Gas cars REALLY RAN 9.90. But follow the money!

 

[none]

Oh by the way AR, when I started racing, it really WAS the good old days. Every weekend a world record could be set. There was none of this damn slowing down to win. We wanted to beat the other guy by as much as we could. No electronics, lots of spectators every weekend. I am so glad I raced in those days, I won over 100 trophys by the tine I was 22 years old and every weekend was an adventure!
At my age I look back at those fun days and still enjoy watching Stock and Super Stock racing along with the Pros. I have meant a lot of friends over the years but most of them are gone now. I sure would like to see NHRA do something to improve the attendance at regional and divisional races. Everyone I talk to will not go to those races due to those damn throttle stop cars! Why the hell don't they just run Pro and Super Pro cars? Oh yeah, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! Well I guess the fans don't matter! DO THEY? Divisional races at Fremont years ago had full grandstands. Fut that's before those damn throttle stops and electronics! Super Gas cars REALLY RAN 9.90. But follow the money!

Bob,
Not sure why you are calling me out, nobody likes Class cars more than me. Heck, I still own my '67 Mustang from high school. I love Stock and Super Stock. But those "Good Old Days" How much track prep was there? And how much did you HATE when a Funny Car would blow up and they would send the Stockers down the track because they had no way to clean up the oil and put rubber down except sending cars down the track? I actually remember being in the lanes hoping someone would blow up so I might get to run. I remember getting up early to go the the staging lanes and sitting there for 6 hours because they were running the "Fast" cars and I wasn't one of them. And they didn't run certain classes all at once, they would just take 10 cars from this lane, then 20 cars from that lane. Remember that?

The NHRA didn't invent throttle stop racing the racers did. (I remember stutter boxes, that was worse) Just like NHRA didn't invent rebuilding the engines every run. The racers did. It's all about the money? I'm not sure where you're going with that. NHRA doesn't sell electronics.

At Fremont did they run Top Fuel at the division races?

I'm not saying that everything is better than it used to be, but a lot of it is. And you have been around long enough to know that you can't go back, you can only go forward. I also think that as an engineer you are thinking backward about the smaller pump or overdrive restrictions. Would love to discuss that with you.

One last thing, you are WAY out of line suggesting that the track prep had anything to do with the tragedy in Atlanta. The only cars affected are the Nitro cars, the Alcohol cars and everyone else had more than enough track. Track prep for 10,000 HP being cut back won't bother a car making 1500. Just as at a Divisional event, they don't prep for Top Fuel, and that doesn't make it unsafe for everyone else.

I'm typing in a discussion tone not an argumentative one.
Alan

 

[camaro]

One last thing, you are WAY out of line suggesting that the track prep had anything to do with the tragedy in Atlanta. The only cars affected are the Nitro cars, the Alcohol cars and everyone else had more than enough track.

good luck, tryin' to sell that to any lawyers who get involved!!

 

[Jer]

Bob,
Not sure why you are calling me out, nobody likes Class cars more than me. Heck, I still own my '67 Mustang from high school. I love Stock and Super Stock. But those "Good Old Days" How much track prep was there? And how much did you HATE when a Funny Car would blow up and they would send the Stockers down the track because they had no way to clean up the oil and put rubber down except sending cars down the track? I actually remember being in the lanes hoping someone would blow up so I might get to run. I remember getting up early to go the the staging lanes and sitting there for 6 hours because they were running the "Fast" cars and I wasn't one of them. And they didn't run certain classes all at once, they would just take 10 cars from this lane, then 20 cars from that lane. Remember that?

The NHRA didn't invent throttle stop racing the racers did. (I remember stutter boxes, that was worse) Just like NHRA didn't invent rebuilding the engines every run. The racers did. It's all about the money? I'm not sure where you're going with that. NHRA doesn't sell electronics.

At Fremont did they run Top Fuel at the division races?

I'm not saying that everything is better than it used to be, but a lot of it is. And you have been around long enough to know that you can't go back, you can only go forward. I also think that as an engineer you are thinking backward about the smaller pump or overdrive restrictions. Would love to discuss that with you.

One last thing, you are WAY out of line suggesting that the track prep had anything to do with the tragedy in Atlanta. The only cars affected are the Nitro cars, the Alcohol cars and everyone else had more than enough track. Track prep for 10,000 HP being cut back won't bother a car making 1500. Just as at a Divisional event, they don't prep for Top Fuel, and that doesn't make it unsafe for everyone else.

I'm typing in a discussion tone not an argumentative one.
Alan

Throttle stop cars shouldnt be at national events period.

 

[DG]

Alan: Yes, they used to run TF at the Points races, "back in the day'"!

 

[TooTall999]

good luck, tryin' to sell that to any lawyers who get involved!!

The crash happened after the finish line. How much track prep do they do after the finish line?

 

[T.Smith]

I think Bob needs to spend 12 months under a modern day fuel team's awning, 1963 was a long time ago.