Nitromater

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Suggestions on recording Vinyl records onto a Computer?

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Joe, you do not need a sound card with a Mac. I bought an ION USB turntable from Costco.com. I think it was about $99.00.-- but its still in the box!!! No time yet.
You may be able to plug your existing stereo amp into the eMac, you would need a 3.5 mm mini phone jack, (walkman type) and software to get the analog music into the digital MPG format for iTunes or for burning your own ausio CDs. I have Macs, and often there is a way within them to do most stuff aready but I have no idea about sound processing. I have heard mixed reviews on the ION's software
Read these:
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=34880
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75218
http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/31274

vonB
 
Joe that HAMMACHER SCHLEMMER USB turntable looks like it is the ION. The reality is the brand factor is less reliable as all companies just spec and shop the Chinese factories now. It would work for you with USB, software is what makes it easy.
 
Help me out here, Nancy Matter..you're the digital one..I know the digital you do isn't lacking..I just recorded the Lion King soundtrack for my daughter..and that is splendid. For those that don't know..Nancy had a hand in the digital mastering of that soundtrack. Is it the way digital is mass produced that wanks me out? Or is there an actual loss of depth (lack of a better term)?
It's these idiot mastering engineers (obviously not all of them, but many) that compress the living hell out of music when they master it for cd. Steve Hoffman, one of the worlds most respected mastering engineers, has been preaching this for years but it's an extreme uphill battle with the music companies. It's being called the Loudness War because eveyone wants their cd to sound louder than the next guys and to make it sound louder they just compress the hell out of the music so there's no longer any dynamic range (difference between loud and soft parts). That's just the problem with today's releases.

Watch this video:
YouTube - The Loudness War

That vid explains the situation perfectly and in a way that anyone can understand. If you think that video is an exaggeration I can assure you it's not.

Many of the early cd releases had problems because the tape vaults were a mess and nobody knew where the original master tape was at. A couple months ago I had the pleasure of listening to Steve Hoffman speak and he told several stories about working with artists such as Ray Charles and many others and the problems he's had over the years with getting the correct master tapes for his projects. In almost every case he said that the true master tape was the one labeled "Do Not Use", so nobody used it. What they were using instead were safety dupes, eq'd copies, LP cutting masters tapes(with cutting curve EQ applied) or who knows what. Take a printed page and run it through a copier. Then take that copy and copy it. Then copy that copy. I'm sure you can see where I'm going with this. You have more and more loss from every copy generation and it's no wonder so many of these remaster cd's sound like ass.

Steve told about the problems with trying to track down the master tape for Jethro Tull's Aqualung. That's probably one of the most well-known albums of all time yet when Steve went to remaster it for the company he was working for at the time, DCC, nobody could find the tape. Turns out the master tape was sitting in Ian Anderson's garage the entire time. Steve said it was almost 7 years from the time he started the project until the proper tape showed up at his studio. And then when it did show up it had a nice section right in the middle of Aqualung with severe tape stretch because somebody screwed up and hit the wrong button on the tape machine when they were rewinding it. I won't let out his secret as to how he worked around that problem, but it was brilliant. ;) Almost everyone else wouldn't have cared and just used whatever tape they could find.

Now you take many of these remastered cd's and the problems can be even worse. Not only do many of them have the same kind of idiotic compression they also might not even be using the correct master tape to begin with so you end up with a double-wammy, terrible compression and the wrong master tape(s).

And then there's other situations where the original master tape just vanished like in the case of Whos' Next by The Who. The tape just disappeared and the only thing left is safety copies. The best sounding version of this available on cd is the Canadian MCA release which uses Steve Hoffman's mastering and was the last mastering to use the correct tape before it disappeared. I have the Mobile Fidelity 24k gold remaster, the MCA 24k gold remaster, the original US release and Steve's Canadian version of Who's Next and there's no comparison, Steve's mastering wins hands down!

I've done plenty of comparisons with my own system and in the program Gold Wave of some of my old cd's and the 'remaster' versions and most of the time it isn't pretty. Most of the time the originals sound better because they haven't been molested with unnecessary compression and EQ.

Here's a few good articles to read if you're interested:

Over The Limit
By Rip Rowan
Rip Rowan: Over the Limit

The best quote from his article:
WHY IS THE LOUDER IS BETTER APPROACH THE WRONG APPROACH? BECAUSE WHEN ALL OF THE SIGNAL IS AT THE MAXIMUM LEVEL, THEN THERE IS NO WAY FOR THE SIGNAL TO HAVE ANY PUNCH. THE WHOLE THING COMES SCREAMING AT YOU LIKE A MESSAGE IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS. AS WE ALL KNOW, WHEN YOU TYPE IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS THERE ARE NO CUES TO HELP THE BRAIN MAKE SENSE OF THE SIGNAL, AND THE MIND TIRES QUICKLY OF TRYING TO PROCESS WHAT IS, BASICALLY, WHITE NOISE. LIKEWISE, A SIGNAL THAT JUST PEGS THE METERS CAUSES THE BRAIN TO REACT AS THOUGH IT IS BEING FED WHITE NOISE. WE SIMPLY FILTER IT OUT AND QUIT TRYING TO PROCESS IT.

A Recording Engineer's Plea for Dynamic Range
Whatever Happened to Dynamic Range on Compact Discs?
By George Graham
A Recording Engineer's Plea for Dynamic Range

Declaring an end to the loudness wars
by Barry Diament
Declaring an end to the loudness wars
 
Official, rock music is too loud
The Sun Online - News: Official, rock music is too loud

By THOMAS WHITAKER
June 04, 2007

MUSIC chiefs were blasted last night for using computer wizardry to make new albums louder than ever.

Bosses are artificially enhancing sound levels as they believe the noisier a record is, the more copies it will sell.

But music lovers say some tracks are now so distorted they can make listeners feel nauseous.

And Britain’s leading studio engineers have launched a campaign to make records range in levels to avoid one loud blur.

Among records blasted by engineers is the Red Hot Chili Peppers’ Californication which some branded “unlistenable”. An online petition has even been launched to have it “remastered”.

Other albums slated by studio experts are works by Oasis, the Arctic Monkeys and Lily Allen.

Peter Mew, senior mastering engineer at London’s Abbey Road Studios — where The Beatles made many of their hits — said: “Record companies are competing in an arms race to make their album the loudest. The quieter parts are becoming louder and the loudest parts are just becoming a buzz. This could be the reason CD sales are in a slump.”

Geoff Emerick, an engineer on the Beatles’ Sgt Pepper’s album, said: “A lot of what is released today is basically a scrunched up mess.

“Whole layers of sound are missing. It’s because record companies don’t trust listeners to decide themselves if they want to turn the volume up.”

Singing legend Bob Dylan, 66, said: “Modern records are atrocious. There’s no definition of anything — just static.”

Val Weedon of the UK Noise Association called for a ceasefire in the “loudness war”.

And one record boss admitted: “New techniques are causing our listeners fatigue.”
 
David, did Brent answer your question?

I just saw this post.

I record vinyl into the computer a complete different way, however, I also take studio recordings out of the digital domain and put them back into analog, warm up the sound and then re-digitize it before making the final masters for replication, which almost all mastering engineers do.

The real secret in Mastering besides the ears, to some what be in the loudness war but retain the integrity of the music, is to get level without crunching the sound which loses the depth and image. Some (Many) mastering engineers don't have the soul for music, so they over process and literally ruin the music trying to achieve "the Loudest Album".

The reason vinyl was much lower in level is that when you have 5 or 6 tracks, if you run too much level, then the grooves on the album kind of smear the sound between the grooves and you can actually hear mostly low end from the adjacent grooves in what your listening to. I can go WAY more technical, but just trying to explain it so everyone can understand. The exception to this Loudness on Vinyl is for DJ copies where there is only 1 song per side, where you can drive the levels more because you are using more real estate on the actual album.

For CD's the level doesn't matter, it doesn't crosstalk as the "Grooves" per say, are actually pits and valleys that are in line, so if the signal is bad when given to the plant, crap in is crap out. Cassette tapes do the same thing as vinyl if you have too much level. (for that matter, most tape mediums do, but engineer's have worked around that in recording for years through much trial an error) and fine tuned the process to avoid that happening in the recording studio. However, in manufacturing, that made the difference of a good cassette and bad cassette (or 8 track) way back in the day.

Brent, you mention a very good friend of mine, Geoff Emerick. I haven't seen him for about a year since he's promoting his new book written by Howard Massey, but have spent countless of hours with Geoff, and oh the stories he has that Couldn't be Published. He's truly the real sound behind the Beatles and just the nicest man!!!! It's an honor for me to be able to call him a friend. Even have a picture of him standing next to my old S/C dragster. He really loves the funny car and when we chat, it's definitely one of the topics we cover.

have a good night everyone, the storm here blew out our well pump and house (so we have no water right now) and destroyed our fence. Fun fun, we're not in california anymore shakin around, Dorothy :D :D :D
 
Ok the Numark came in, I just got finished trying it out. But I'm NOT hearing anything! I did hook up the Headphones, and I'm seeing sound bars on the Audacity, but I have NO idea if it's storing anything though... I guess this isn't as easy as these folks make it out to be!
 
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