yoda
Nitro Member
Thanks for the clarification, Bob.
Nitromater
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Story Behind The Monstrut Controversy
- Thread starter Bobby Bennett
- Start date
Thanks for the clarification, Bob.
Zak
Nitro Member
Really?... really - you mean that really?
Everyone in that loop has some sort of claim to some of the intellectual property rights - including Gartlis is they used any of his ideas.
r2
Nitro Member
Ross
I would have to second that opinion about Mike, without the knife in MY pocket... I honestly believe that much more should be done then an apology... What that is I am not sure... This is a very sad and unfortunate circumstance that EVERYONE is in NOW!!
EDIT after watching 1320TV
This only confirms what I said about your son Ross... You should be very very proud to have raised such a son...
Thank you so much!!
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Jeff Taylor
Nitro Member
Hadman stated that no one had been involved money wise other than himself and the carbon fiber people.
Hadman said, "Yeah, Mike and I go back a long way. I'm a nice guy in a tough situation. I don't like being involved in the middle of it. I build race cars, and people pay me to do it." He said he simply wanted to link people with like-minded colleagues to realize a goal and feared that he will "end up being the bad guy."
He said he has invested about $30,000 in the project and Ron Jones of CLS (Composite Laminate Specialties) has kicked in $50,000-$60,000 of his own. "A lot of people invested a lot of money," Hadman said, implying that Kloeber doesn't have exclusive rights regarding the project.
Second If you take a actual design to a fabricator then you have a WRITTEN CONTRACT and agreement.
Third Big Daddy was the initial brain trust with a proven concept, design and fully functional working vehicle.
Whay would a person think that a respected builder ( Hadman) would risk a financil lose by ignoring a written signed contract.
A lot of speculation and very little factual information other than the wing was disccused by Werner enterprises aka(Kloeber)and Powers has it on the car!
Just my 2 cents,
Hadman said, "Yeah, Mike and I go back a long way. I'm a nice guy in a tough situation. I don't like being involved in the middle of it. I build race cars, and people pay me to do it." He said he simply wanted to link people with like-minded colleagues to realize a goal and feared that he will "end up being the bad guy."
He said he has invested about $30,000 in the project and Ron Jones of CLS (Composite Laminate Specialties) has kicked in $50,000-$60,000 of his own. "A lot of people invested a lot of money," Hadman said, implying that Kloeber doesn't have exclusive rights regarding the project.
Second If you take a actual design to a fabricator then you have a WRITTEN CONTRACT and agreement.
Third Big Daddy was the initial brain trust with a proven concept, design and fully functional working vehicle.
Whay would a person think that a respected builder ( Hadman) would risk a financil lose by ignoring a written signed contract.
A lot of speculation and very little factual information other than the wing was disccused by Werner enterprises aka(Kloeber)and Powers has it on the car!
Just my 2 cents,
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Gordon
Nitro Member
From strictly a fans point of view, I have a newfound respect for Mike Kloeber. I'll never forget being in Indy in 1989 when Snake cleaned the table in his Skoal Flopper w/ Mike at the helm. Then I met him very briefly in the Bill Miller pit area in Seattle through Brady and he was extremely pleasant to talk too - even if he was mildly distracted while teaching Bill how to run the setback blower.
I've always liked him, but watching and listening to the way he has handled and carried himself during this situation has shown me what a true class act he is. Ross, ya done good in my mind.
I've always liked him, but watching and listening to the way he has handled and carried himself during this situation has shown me what a true class act he is. Ross, ya done good in my mind.
90-percent
Nitro Member
long thread, which i'm too lazy to read, but back in around 1992 Garlits monostrut engineering was contracted to an aerospace consulting group or something. This was purchased by a grant from the Museum of Drag Racing. The design was designated "public domain" by either Garlit's decree or because of a requirement of using museum grant money.
So for those that know how to use the "public domain", engineering info is there for the taking!
-85%
So for those that know how to use the "public domain", engineering info is there for the taking!
-85%
mick
Nitro Member
was also there in '89 and have also since admired mike's abilities.
i've always wondered if mike & the snake had something that weekend
giving them that advantage - if i remember the snake got the record @
5.17 & 5.19 and the rest of field was around 5.30 and higher?
wasn't it mike k. who also experimented with the v-grooved blower belt
a few years ago?........and the TF body with no windshield.......
and after working with c. powell/reebox TF, took some time for more
education?
Gordon
Nitro Member
I don't want to completely hijack the thread, but here goes.
If memory serves me correctly (and it doesn't always, so this is by no means gospel), I seem to recall he did have something between the manifold and the supercharger that was allowing them to force air in more efficiently. Also, I don't think the ET disparity was quite as excessive as you're saying. Most were in the mid .20's while Snake was running the aforementioned .17 & .19. I vividly remember my repsonse to that 1st teen on the board - hint: I immediately appologized to the family in front of me who had a young child with them.
Beyond that I lost touch with his career after he left Snake racing following the switch to Top Fuel until he popped up again years later so I can't answer your other questions with any degree of knowledge.
He went to school for A&P I think.
In 86, I learned alot from him....Grose beat bernstein in the semi's and took out Force in the final while clicking it early...goggles fogged up and coasted to a 5.69 to Force' .75. I will never forget that evening/day. D Gwynn beat up on Kalitta in the final as well.
Mike built the short-block before that race and never hurt it, aside from maintenance. One of the first races w/ dual barrel valves.
Before the final all we did was upper rod bearings, Lanny (now w/ DSR) from L&T clutches did the clutch pack and Gary Phillips adjusted the valves and we refueled the thing while Force and Coil were swapping motors. Force was pissed as he spent three races of his budget trying for his first win.
In 86, I learned alot from him....Grose beat bernstein in the semi's and took out Force in the final while clicking it early...goggles fogged up and coasted to a 5.69 to Force' .75. I will never forget that evening/day. D Gwynn beat up on Kalitta in the final as well.
Mike built the short-block before that race and never hurt it, aside from maintenance. One of the first races w/ dual barrel valves.
Before the final all we did was upper rod bearings, Lanny (now w/ DSR) from L&T clutches did the clutch pack and Gary Phillips adjusted the valves and we refueled the thing while Force and Coil were swapping motors. Force was pissed as he spent three races of his budget trying for his first win.
long thread, which i'm too lazy to read, but back in around 1992 Garlits monostrut engineering was contracted to an aerospace consulting group or something. This was purchased by a grant from the Museum of Drag Racing. The design was designated "public domain" by either Garlit's decree or because of a requirement of using museum grant money.
So for those that know how to use the "public domain", engineering info is there for the taking!
-85%
The original project involved the engineering department at Purdue University. Though Garlits may have had a vision of running a monostrut, I would guarantee you that the precise measurements, load analysis, and engineering specs did not come from him.
There's no doubt that Garlits was the first to successfully use one. But drag racing has always been a sport in which new ideas become more and more refined. Give him credit, but certainly not ownership. It's no different than the first multiplate, centrifugally staged clutch. It was invented somewhere else (heavy equipment?), adapted to drag racing use, and is now produced by a number of manufacturers all using their personal tweaks.
However, it is blindingly clear to me that THIS VERSION of the monostrut contains a bunch of intellectual property of Mike Kloeber and what is starting to happen here is a shame and disgrace. It is signficantly different than what was on the Swamp Rat.
Garlits proved the concept but evidently did not choose (or was not able due to the agreement with Purdue) to protect his work. Kloeber sure doesn't seem to be saying he's throwing his ideas out into the public domain.
Take these words with a grain of salt of you will, but I have personally witnessed current technology coming from what was once intellectual property - and the person who came up with the idea and made it work was either too naive / trusting / poor / to get the idea protected.
Yeah, I know it's shoulda, coulda, woulda. Trust me, the bitter taste never goes away regardless.
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Just Paul
Nitro Member
10 bonus points... what else about that event is a part of history??
Ok, back to the Monostrut...
Rajunz
Nitro Member
I also do agree that Hadman owes Mike Kloeber a public apology. This whole situation could have been avoided if he would have done one thing differently. Simply pick up the phone and call Kloeber BEFORE he sold the product to David Power's Racing and told Mike what he was intending to do. The two of them should have had that discussion before hand and come to an agreement, and then we wouldn't have all of the drama. Sorry Brad Hadman may feel like a good guy in a bad situation, but he put his self there, no one else did.
