CompPlus story on the FC chassis problems (4 Viewers)

[Randy]

Why is everyone directing their anger and frustration at Roo? This should be directed at the source! We all work for someone. You are putting him in the middle on this whole deal. I don’t feel that he should respond to the comments! Everyone is forcing him into a corner with this whole deal! I do not know Roo personally, however, I sure wouldn’t want to be in the middle of what could be a legal battle.

No one is directing anger at Roo. This is a discussion board. You can't come here and make statements saying someone's story has "big holes" in it or read an interview from a chassis builder and say he's got his head up his arse without getting challenged.

You are feeling sorry for someone who, by posting, chooses to put himself in the middle of this, which is fine. But be prepared to back your statements. Posters are not like taggers where putting graffitti anonymously on a wall left for others to clean up is OK. This message board is set up to show real names. You are held accountable for what you say. And that's why real discussion on Nitromater can get very informative.

Roo himself stated "People who have not actually built a race car should keep their mouths shut." Then in his next sentence he says he has never built a top fuel chassis. Should we hold him to his own words?

 

[Keith Burgan]

Randy,
I started to write a lengthy reply on various aspects of the current "discussion" but I just scrubbed it. I really do not have a dog in this fight. As a car owner you do, and anyone on this board that drives fuel or alky cars does too. Likewise for guys like Grant who actually build fuel cars. I have, but currrently all the stuff out of my shop is sportsman level and that is how I like it.
I apologize for any slights, perceived or intentional in my posts and will leave it to the powers that be to sort out this whole mess although I will still be a very interested bystander.

Roo

 

[Randy]

Randy,
I started to write a lengthy reply on various aspects of the current "discussion" but I just scrubbed it. I really do not have a dog in this fight. As a car owner you do, and anyone on this board that drives fuel or alky cars does too. Likewise for guys like Grant who actually build fuel cars. I have, but currrently all the stuff out of my shop is sportsman level and that is how I like it.
I apologize for any slights, perceived or intentional in my posts and will leave it to the powers that be to sort out this whole mess although I will still be a very interested bystander.

Roo

Keith:

If you or anyone else has information we need to know about that would help the rules makers then all of it should be brought out into the open in a constructive manner.

Like many here, I will be gritting my teeth watching the FC class at Las Vegas and Pomona until enough time has passed that the chassis builders can replace all the heat treated cars.

No need to apologize.

RG

 

[sirstude]

Guys, I am a lurker here and not a racer, but involved with a couple. I believe that the roundy-round guys just use DOM tubing, not Chrome at all. What would be the drawbacks (other than weight) to using mild steel? I have heard it is much more flexible than chrome, and APARENTLY much more fogiving in the welding process. I am not trying to start a battle like seems to happen sometimes when someone asks a dumb question (not just here, but on most bulletin boards).

Thanks again
Doug

 

[Tom]

I appreciate all the information that is provided on this sight! I have learned a great deal about the issues that are currently facing the TF/FC teams. This opportunity allows us as folks on the outside of the pro ranks to get a look at the decision-making process and the politics evolved in that process. Not much different than having a government job. Thanks folks!!!!!

 

[Jay]

Why is everyone directing their anger and frustration at Roo? This should be directed at the source! We all work for someone. You are putting him in the middle on this whole deal. I don’t feel that he should respond to the comments! Everyone is forcing him into a corner with this whole deal! I do not know Roo personally, however, I sure wouldn’t want to be in the middle of what could be a legal battle.

Its because he comes on here and makes pretty bold statements and then is unwilling, or unable to back them up when challenged...People that speak in such a disrespectful tone and are so condescending towards everyone else usually become the recipient of a lot of negativity...When that happens, it does'nt even matter if they are right or wrong, people just don't like being attacked like that...Such is life....

As you said Tom, maybe he shouldn't respond to these comments....If he kept HIS mouth shut, he wouldn't be subject to people getting frustrated with him when he makes these kinds of statements and then ducks everyone when the water gets hot...

I'm sorry...But he brought this upon himself when he went after the people on this board saying that their opinions shouldn't be heard because they haven't built a car...

If you can't handle the fire, stay out of the kitchen.

 

[Jay]

No one is directing anger at Roo. This is a discussion board. You can't come here and make statements saying someone's story has "big holes" in it or read an interview from a chassis builder and say he's got his head up his arse without getting challenged.

You are feeling sorry for someone who, by posting, chooses to put himself in the middle of this, which is fine. But be prepared to back your statements. Posters are not like taggers where putting graffitti anonymously on a wall left for others to clean up is OK. This message board is set up to show real names. You are held accountable for what you say. And that's why real discussion on Nitromater can get very informative.

Roo himself stated "People who have not actually built a race car should keep their mouths shut." Then in his next sentence he says he has never built a top fuel chassis. Should we hold him to his own words?

Very, very well said Randy....Once again, you hit it on the head...

 

[Keith Burgan]

Jay,
re: Roo himself stated "People who have not actually built a race car should keep their mouths shut." Then in his next sentence he says he has never built a top fuel chassis. Should we hold him to his own words?


What I actually said was that I don't build top fuel cars at this time. I have in the past. I also worked full time for a fuel team for a couple of years, still occasionally fill in when a team is short handed and crew chief a front motored nostalgia dragster.
As for the "head up their arse" comment referred to in another post, it was not aimed at Grant Downing but at those who have not been around these cars on a day to day basis to see what gets torn up and is never seen by those outside the ropes.
Even in the days of anonymous posters I have always used my real name so I am not afraid to be out where people know who I am and where I stand on issues.

Roo

 

[shawn fleischmann]

I'm not sure if this has been brought up at all in any of the posts about the chassis problems. But in addition to the heat treating argument, another possible cause of the fuel cars breaking apart may also be the country where the steel is coming from. I've heard stories of how steel distributors have started selling only tubing from China. Although the distributors claim it is the same if not better than American tubing it is really not.

 

[ex-nsp]

Noticed something a while back on this post that needs correcting-

The late Nye Frank built the MT monocoque funny car, not the equally talented Pat Foster. Look up the Hot Rod cover article.

Only met Pat once, but wonder how he, now in his waning years as I am , likes being called "Patsy" these days?

NSP

 

[TD]

I think the proper thing to do here is to stop speculating. There are people's reputations on the line here. I don't think it is very fair to be calling anyone a liar on here. That is just not good manners. Wait until all of the facts are out there and then say what you will. There is not enough information on this yet.

just my 2 cents!

We should wait for NHRA to release said information...............?

 

[unclebob]

another possible cause of the fuel cars breaking apart may also be the country where the steel is coming from. I've heard stories of how steel distributors have started selling only tubing from China. Although the distributors claim it is the same if not better than American tubing it is really not.

Shawn; I'm more than up to my neck in this deal and have been trying to get work done besides the time this controvery has taken up. But this has been brought up a few times now, so I thought I should try to clairfy some things.
1. Most every tube order comes with certs if you ask.
2. Some of the China tube that I know of has been tested and one dragster front half that I am aware of has performed flawlessly.
3. We have had many very poor batches of tube made in this country which started this mess.
4. The treehuggers have killed American steel mills.
5. The ingot that is popular right now is being produced in Germany, shipped to the US and drawn and finished here.
I have done enough research on that material, I'm comfortable with it as produced. Please notice how I said that. Right now, it means a lot!

And Roo, thanks for the call.

Bob

 

[Big John]

As per NHRA.COM Robert is in a Steve Plueger built car. The rest are awaiting a decsion on weather to race or not. John stated that it was heat treating issue. Maybe that will shut some of the complainers up.

 

[BlueStangGT]

As per NHRA.COM Robert is in a Steve Plueger built car. The rest are awaiting a decsion on weather to race or not. John stated that it was heat treating issue. Maybe that will shut some of the complainers up.

John, to be fair, Force's exact quote is this:

“We're looking at the chassis, the tires, the track surface, and our own preparation,” Force said. “And the chassis issues aren't just about heat treating. We have some new information on materials and that's what we're going to discuss in Vegas. The crew chiefs are going over it now.”

 

[none]

Yea.........the quote "out of context" comes to mind

That and the Steve Plueger built car is approved for competition appears to vindicate some posts

 

[unclebob]

Tell me, did I make the end of my finger smoke @four words per minute on my last reply for no response?
Shawn ? Anybody?
I thought I explained it well, guess not.

 

[d'kid]

Tell me, did I make the end of my finger smoke @four words per minute on my last reply for no response?
Shawn ? Anybody?
I thought I explained it well, guess not.

Clear Bob....

When ever I ask for certs on Steel or fitting from vendors... I get them, and they include batch numbers... mil spec. ect... but you've got to Ask.
Well some vendors, if I'm play with 304, 316, CuNi, and other stuff send without being asked...

Just Ask, They'll Tell.... (bad joke, sorry)

d'kid

 

[mick]

Tell me, did I make the end of my finger smoke @four words per minute on my last reply for no response?
Shawn ? Anybody?
I thought I explained it well, guess not.

so if there are possibly two issues now, heat treating and steel quality....
bob, how do you perceive both of these issues?
do you suspect steel quality as a possible part of the problem?
and to take that one step further, is heat treated poor quality steel
a totally different animal than heat treated good quality steel?

i know nothing about steel.
just an interested observer.

 

[d'kid]

so if there are possibly two issues now, heat treating and steel quality....
bob, how do you perceive both of these issues?
do you suspect steel quality as a possible part of the problem?
and to take that one step further, is heat treated poor quality steel
a totally different animal than heat treated good quality steel?

i know nothing about steel.
just an interested observer.

Just before I left work, asked the boss, who is also an Engineer... Told him the pipes were 4130 and described where John's car broke and his first question was if the tubes were HT or N and told me before I answered why it happened and it sounded to him like someone used HT...

Then he asked me why the heck does drag racing use space frames....

d'kid

 

[shawn fleischmann]

Tell me, did I make the end of my finger smoke @four words per minute on my last reply for no response?
Shawn ? Anybody?
I thought I explained it well, guess not.

Yea you explained it well, meant to reply right after you posted it but my internet wouldn't let me, you helped dissipate the rumors about the "bad" china tubing going around