NHRA Official Qualifying Changes (2 Viewers)

[Rajunz]

So the 4 fastest on Saturday qualify..........no matter what uh or do they??

At a minimum, the fastest 4 cars from Saturday will qualify, could be that (using my example) Ashley Force, John Force, Bernstein, Bartone and Mike Ashley all ran quicker than a 4.794, then Head would bump down to the bubble, and Del would go home.

 

[nick name]

Huh, What, It applies to all races.

Exactly.

The easiest way of looking at this is to imagine that there are only 12 qualified positions until the last session. In that session, positions 13 through 16 will be filled and the field is set.

That doesn't mean that any of the 12 positions are ever locked until the end of qualifying. If you run the quickest ET of the weekend in ANY session, you'll still be #1. Your ET will place you in the 1-12 order regardless of session assuming it's quick enough to gain one of those spots.

I assume the operative phrase is "last session", which would take into account any event in which all four sessions were not completed.

Off the top of my head, I'm thinking the only drama-in-the-tower would come from partially completed sessions, but come to think of it the existing rules could still be used.

Make sense?

 

[Johnny Mopar]

While this is confusing and is going to cause some problems for sure, I am glad they made a change b/c it was crazy the last few years especially in Pro Stock where if you didnt get in Fri night you were pretty much screwed at most races. A change was needed.

Although I still think the best way to have done it was make a Sat evening session that way you have 2 day and 2 night sessions and also capitalize on the fan interest and not really change it, top 16 times are in. That way you have 2 sessions to make it in but its better than one.

I totally agree with you Justin! I also think Larry's point about 'wishy-washy' language will become relevant at some point. They just created an opportunity to make a judgement call...which they'll learn to regret.

The best 'fix' would have been to move the last Saturday session to the evening, or add a third Saturday session...in the evening.

Larry's right...there'll be lot's of trips to the tower and lot's of whining.

 

[Kelly]

I never have been able to hit a curve ball. This off-season/pre-season is gonna make me strike out!

 

[Rajunz]

........Larry's right...there'll be lot's of trips to the tower and lot's of whining.

Give us an example, it all seems black and white from where I'm reading it.

 

[Paul]

Give us an example, it all seems black and white from where I'm reading it.

I am with you, this seems pretty clear from my seat.

 

[BaldyLochs]

Sounds somewhat appealing on paper. It will be interesting to hear some driver's comments, come Gainesville or so.

 

[lmhb oyf]

Reason #1 why they should have a constant scoreboard at the events showing all qualifying positions real time and where they stand.

It's already confusing enough as it is for newcomers to try and keep track on who's in and who's out. A scoreboard would be a welcome addition.

 

[none]

Give us an example, it all seems black and white from where I'm reading it.

Using your previous example, 2 cars(not named Ashley) run better than 4.80 on Saturday. No one else runs better than a 4.90. Ashley shakes and shuts off twice. How long after John figures out Asley is not in and someone running 4.90(2 actually)are in before he is letting some one have it????

 

[Dave]

I have had a terrible headache all morning and trying to figure this out just made it worse. To quote the great Buford T. Justice, "I'm as confused as a baby racoon". What are these people doing to our sport? The countdown has caused enough problems and now this. Hopefully I'm just dumb and this is a really a good and simple change.

Dave

 

[nick name]

So the 4 fastest on Saturday qualify..........no matter what uh or do they??

Yes, the four quickest on Saturday fill the 13 - 16th spots.

Look at it this way: After Friday is concluded (regardless of sessions completed, I've learned) we will have 12 provisional qualifiers. All other times from Friday will be thrown out since they wouldn't put you in the show.

After Saturday is concluded, the other four spots are filled from that day's quickest performers not already in the 1-12 spots.

But any position from 1 -12 can be gained in any of the sessions assuming that a Saturday run is quicker than someone's Friday run holding one of those spots.

Good weather scenario: with good weather throughout the weekend, performances are great every session and we'll see bumping all four sessions just like we did in previous years.

Bad weather scenario: The Friday night session is killer but it's hot and humid all day Saturday. The quickest 12 from Friday start Saturday in their provisional spots. Greg/Jeg/Dave missed badly on Friday but manages to run quick enough in the heat on Saturday to jump into the 10th positition. The 12th spot is bumped out and the previous 11th place moves to 12th.

As is often the case, no one else is able to improve. The four next quickest cars on Saturday who are not already in the 1-12th spots move in the 13th to 16th spots.

With the ladder set up the way it is, this may put a huge premium on qualifying 1-4 at the end of Saturday.

(edited for further thoughts)
Then again, the best position to end up in may be 5th. You wouldn't have to meet a team with strong momentum which had figured out a hot day / track better than anyone else. You'd meet someone who had a good cool weather / track tuneup but may have not figured out the hot weather / track yet.

 

[Toejam]

Holy crap... trying to decipher that is like trying to think in reverse.....

Please excuse my simplemindedness, but can someone put it in terms of how it is any different to now.

The term provisionals threw up a Redflag! Please tell me that Teams aren't guaranteed a spot!

 

[DrRocket]

There you go. Thank you Dan. I believe I have it figured out now. I'm a little slow on the uptake today.

As others have stated, the biggest effect will probably be felt in Pro Stock qualifying.

Be interested to hear what the teams think about this.

 

[downtime]

I think it is pretty simple and straightforward... If the air is good on Friday and really crappy on Saturday, the four quickest on Saturday flesh out the final four spots. This way if a heavy hitter has a Friday disaster during good air, they still have an opportunity to qualify if weather conditions tank.

I am not sure this is such a good idea with the fuel classes as track conditions more than weather seem to affect performance, however the naturally aspirated classes will benefit by reducing the "weather variable" and focusing more on comparative performance (fairness).

I assume in the event of a Saturday rainout, Friday's qualifying stands "as is".

 

[nick name]

The term provisionals threw up a Redflag! Please tell me that Teams aren't guaranteed a spot!

No, not a NASCAR-style provisional, a dictionary-style provisional.

I used the term meaning you've earned the spot for the time being but are subject to being moved / bumped out at the end of qualifying.

 

[mike cummings]

I think it is pretty simple and straightforward... If the air is good on Friday and really crappy on Saturday, the four quickest on Saturday flesh out the final four spots. This way if a heavy hitter has a Friday disaster during good air, they still have an opportunity to qualify if weather conditions tank.

If how you describe it is really how the new change is, then I don't like it.

Everyone has a chance to qualify on Friday night when the air is best. If "a heavy hitter has a Friday disaster during good air", then too bad. Better luck on Saturday or next week.

 

[Mike]

Bad weather scenario: The Friday night session is killer but it's hot and humid all day Saturday. The quickest 12 from Friday start Saturday in their provisional spots. Greg/Jeg/Dave missed badly on Friday but manages to run quick enough in the heat on Saturday to jump into the 10th positition. The 12th spot is bumped out and the previous 11th place moves to 12th.

I would think that in the above scenario that the 12th place car does not get bumped out but bumped down to 13th and the next 3 quickest would fill in the remaining spot. If he got bumped out in this situation, he/she would have to requalify as one of the 4 quickest on Saturday. That's just not right. The provisional guarantees the top 12 unless at least 5 cars run quicker than the 12th car on Saturday. Only then does that car have to be one of the quickest 16 to remain qualified. I could go into more scenarios but I think you'll get it.

 

[Rajunz]

........Hopefully I'm just dumb and this is a really a good and simple change.

Dave

Well Dave, I would never call you dumb, but this a really a good and simple change. At least on the weekends where weather is a factor, and a competitor has a bad run on Friday evening, there will still be a chance for them to come back and race Sunday.

Face it everyone, Friday Night qualifying has nothing to do with race day, the conditions are rarely, if ever the same, and tune ups are never the same. Friday Night is there for the fans, period. NHRA wasn't about to do away with the night time show, so this is a good alternative that makes it fair for all.

The only other way that I could think of doing it that would be fair to all is to average all 4 runs of the weekend for each team and take the top 16 averages for Sunday. However, that would add costs to the little guys.

I would think that in the above scenario that the 12th place car does not get bumped out but bumped down to 13th and the next 3 quickest would fill in the remaining spot. If he got bumped out in this situation, he/she would have to requalify as one of the 4 quickest on Saturday. That's just not right. The provisional guarantees the top 12 unless at least 5 cars run quicker than the 12th car on Saturday.

You are correct Mike. It would take 5 cars improving to bump out number 12, however in the scenerio you quoted, where 3 cars ran good enough for 10th spot, then the provisional 11th car would race Sunday from the 15th spot, and the provisional 12th car would race Sunday from the 16th spot.

 

[PJ]

of course this doesn't address the issues/concerns/questions/accusations regarding track prep that lead to some fo the qualifying issues last season.


It also still does not look at the issues such as Chicago last year. I will not waste money again this year to watch a smoke fest for a few hours. If cchages like the countdown are made to appeal to fans, then I would think focussing on making the show more appealing would be a good idea

 

[gerrymack]

(No typo in the last sentence, "moot" is the correct word, "mute" is incorrect)

Moot, not mute ... OK, I hear what you're saying Larry!